Re: No one to debate?
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:57 pm
That is one reason why no chemist is backing Rudolf up. The other is that he is wrong.joshk246 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 12:51 pmNessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 9:39 amRudolf, the chemist, argues that the residue of HCN in the walls is too low for them to have been exposed to repeated gassings as alleged. A historian cannot technically argue against that. As you have seen, they are also not prepared to debate a chemist on the subject of the history of the Kremas. Rudolf is certainly knowledgeable on the history, but the bottom line is that he is not a historian. There are no rules, but academics prefer to remain within their field of expertise. The historian already knows, from Rudolf's books, that he cannot produce an evidenced narrative of what did happen inside the Kremas, and what happened to the people he claims were not gassed. He spend a lot of time at the camp, and in camp archives, but he still failed to find anything that evidences the actual events 1943-4 and hundreds of thousands not being gassed and leaving the camp.joshk246 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:59 am
The debate isn't down to your ridiculous rules Nessie its pretty simple, Holocaust denier Vs Holocaust exterminationist.
Jake will be moderating the debate so he's not involved, so again don't know why him not being an academic is relevant to this. You're mentioning how Rudolf is only going to mention chemistry, that's not true you know his knowledge is much broader than that and he could argue on any topic holocaust related.
It is interesting that the aim is not to find a chemist to, in effect, peer review Rudolf's chemistry. Do revisionists not think his findings will stand up to expert scrutiny?
Not really, no exterminationist chemist would take this debate either as we all know there would be massive reprocussions for them if they did. One historian has already been threatened.
No autopsies are possible, the Nazis saw to that at A-B by cremating the dead. When revisionists claim no gassings took place inside the Kremas, they are making a positive claim that they need to prove. They fail to do so. Some have tried, but they cannot even agree on what did take place, with suggestions of mass showering, corpses storage, bomb shelters and delousing clothing. Rudolf avoids the issue. He just argues gassing did not happen.The burden of proof isn't for us to prove they weren't gassed, its on them to prove they were, no autopsies have ever indicated HCN.
He has failed to find any evidence as to what did take place. Not being able to produce an evidenced, contemporaneous chronological history greatly weakens revisionism.Germar is well versed on the whole holocaust, including AR camps where he can't possibly argue about chemical analysis because no 'gas chambers' were found post war,
The revisionist arguments from incredulity are logically flawed. Just because you cannot work out how the pyres burnt so many corpses etc, does not therefore prove it did not happen. The ground at Belzec was not subject to permafrost and it could be dug up. There is evidence of corpses being rendered after cremation, hence the lack of teeth. Your opinion, on the possibility, is not a reliable determinant. Evidence as to what took place is..... we argue against the ridiculous cremations methods and techniques, also lack of millions kg of wood, no wood storage, open air cremation pyres right next to flammable fences, frozen ground at Belzec during the supposed digging up of bodies, millions of teeth missing.
No chemist is backing Rudolf publicly because their Phd would be stripped.Nessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 3:56 pm The revisionist arguments from incredulity are logically flawed. Just because you cannot work out how the pyres burnt so many corpses etc, does not therefore prove it did not happen. The ground at Belzec was not subject to permafrost and it could be dug up. There is evidence of corpses being rendered after cremation, hence the lack of teeth. Your opinion, on the possibility, is not a reliable determinant. Evidence as to what took place is.
They would be heavily criticised, but that is because Rudolf is wrong.joshk246 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 4:31 pmNessie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 3:56 pmNo chemist is backing Rudolf publicly because their Phd would be stripped.joshk246 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 12:51 pm
The revisionist arguments from incredulity are logically flawed. Just because you cannot work out how the pyres burnt so many corpses etc, does not therefore prove it did not happen. The ground at Belzec was not subject to permafrost and it could be dug up. There is evidence of corpses being rendered after cremation, hence the lack of teeth. Your opinion, on the possibility, is not a reliable determinant. Evidence as to what took place is.
https://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/belzec1/bel100.htmlLol! Bodies being rendered? Any evidence for such claim?
https://www.schillingfuneralhome.com/bi ... s-answeredTeeth don’t even burn completely in modern crematoriums and the enamels have to be crushed up into powder and added to ashes, no where in Treblinka to they allow space for this.
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... speak.htmlAnd still no plausible explanation to 0 evidence of weather tight wood storage units, massive amounts of wood being at any camps.
The AR camps were out of range when they were operating in 1942-3. There were aerial photos of Birkenau in 1944 that showed smoke from open air cremations.No air photos showing massive cremations taking place yet these took place constantly?
Why do you think that Germans could not organise a pyre, without setting the fence on fire? Your incredulity is a logical fallacy.I mean that is the only way they can claim the ridiculous numbers like 750,000 and 600,000. Flammable fence surrounding the camp, not believable.
There is no perma frost, the ground can be excavated all year round.You must understand how cold it is in Poland winter time?
Just because you find the claims about mass pyres hard to accept, does not therefore mean they did not happen. Your opinion does not determine what happened, evidence does.As for Treblinka, summer months offer the most amount of rain, again no-body mentions rain ever being an issue with these 24/7 open air cremations that tended themselves with invisible wood and cremated thousands of bodies stacked up right down to brittle bone and ash.
lol, “evidence does” what evidence! That’s the whole point we don’t believe these ridiculous theories and how many times you have to move the goal posts.
Every single eyewitness for a start. Then there is the corroborating documentary, physical, forensic, archaeological and circumstantial evidence, along with an established motive, opportunity and conduct after the crime. Revisionists like to pretend there is not much evidence, to deflect from their total lack of evidence.
You need to learn about logical fallacies, in particular the fallacy from incredulity and strawman.That’s the whole point we don’t believe these ridiculous theories and how many times you have to move the goal posts.
The average is just below freezing, so there will be plenty of days when it above freezing, so your incredulity that the Nazis could dig pits in the winter is just your desire to disbelieve.I love your choice of word by using “permafrost”, the top water in soil that is hit with temperatures below -0 will completely freeze and can be meters deep, you should search up what the average temperature is in Lublin December, January and February.
The lack of evidence of transports of wood to the camps, does not therefore mean no transports. Again, your incredulity is not evidence. If I don't believe something happened, that does not mean therefore it did not happen.You cannot just cut down trees and now that’s acceptable firewood, trains full of wood are not documented at all, even still you would need a storage facility.
Why don't you evidence what happened? Or do you know how to?“Janowska bone crushing machine”, evidence submitted by the soviet “extraordinary state commission”.
I'm hoping that Tuesday will clear up the politics issue and I can focus on history again. Or it will get cleared up at some point next week.Archie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:16 am There don't seem to be any active anti-revisionists on Twitter to speak of.
The only one I've seen on there so far who has any clue about the subject is Jeff (from Skeptics) and he seems distracted with politics. The others are all like "parker" who rely exclusively on substance-free ad hominem and well poisoning tactics. I have seen a few who do a very low-effort debating style where they have some basic point which they just keep repeating while ignoring counterpoints, almost like a bot.
Hi Jeff, good to see you. Will you not be using the other fake revisionist account you made anymore?Jeff 8675309 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 8:03 pmI'm hoping that Tuesday will clear up the politics issue and I can focus on history again. Or it will get cleared up at some point next week.Archie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:16 am There don't seem to be any active anti-revisionists on Twitter to speak of.
The only one I've seen on there so far who has any clue about the subject is Jeff (from Skeptics) and he seems distracted with politics. The others are all like "parker" who rely exclusively on substance-free ad hominem and well poisoning tactics. I have seen a few who do a very low-effort debating style where they have some basic point which they just keep repeating while ignoring counterpoints, almost like a bot.
History Speaks got backlash from historians like Waitman Beorn so he pulled out. I find that odd, I used to debate deniers on his timeline and he didn't seem to care. Of course I'm just an amateur so I guess that doesn't matter.
History bores most people and Holocaust denial is a niche issue. White nationalists/separatists, antisemites (or to be "PC" the "Jew aware"), Christian Nationalists/Militant Catholics, racists....they got modern issues to grind on. The Holocaust happened a long time ago so who cares? When they engage in denial it's part of the meme wars.
I did follow CODOH. Did that today, in fact.Archie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 8:34 pmHi Jeff, good to see you. Will you not be using the other fake revisionist account you made anymore?Jeff 8675309 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 8:03 pmI'm hoping that Tuesday will clear up the politics issue and I can focus on history again. Or it will get cleared up at some point next week.Archie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:16 am There don't seem to be any active anti-revisionists on Twitter to speak of.
The only one I've seen on there so far who has any clue about the subject is Jeff (from Skeptics) and he seems distracted with politics. The others are all like "parker" who rely exclusively on substance-free ad hominem and well poisoning tactics. I have seen a few who do a very low-effort debating style where they have some basic point which they just keep repeating while ignoring counterpoints, almost like a bot.
History Speaks got backlash from historians like Waitman Beorn so he pulled out. I find that odd, I used to debate deniers on his timeline and he didn't seem to care. Of course I'm just an amateur so I guess that doesn't matter.
History bores most people and Holocaust denial is a niche issue. White nationalists/separatists, antisemites (or to be "PC" the "Jew aware"), Christian Nationalists/Militant Catholics, racists....they got modern issues to grind on. The Holocaust happened a long time ago so who cares? When they engage in denial it's part of the meme wars.
I have seen lots of deniers on there and very few anti-revisionists. Only a handful and most of them were bottom of the barrel.
I would assume that Jews are working on getting it shut down and censored like everything else. That's probably where the efforts are going. In the meantime they seem to be mostly ignoring it, hoping not to draw attention to it.
I think we have a big advantage with the Twitter format because we can make a lot of sharp, immediately understandable points that will startle much of the general public and which can't be refuted. Your side's explanations tend to be lengthy exercises in sophistry which just doesn't work on Twitter.
Btw I followed you briefly but the political stuff was just too much. I had to tap out.