Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

[HansHill]

The Poles were every bit as non-credible as the Jews, so Nessie of course has everything backwards yet again

In August 1943, Poland’s government-in-exile
lobbied the British and American governments to is-
sue a public statement condemning “German terror
in Poland.” A draft for such a statement included ref-
erences to mass execution in gas chambers. That is
where Britain’s psychological warfare experts
stepped on the brake, vetoing this with clear words,
and succeeded in getting all these references re-
moved. Victor Cavendish-Bentinck, the Chairman of
the Allied Joint Intelligence Committee, stated in this
regard:

“In my opinion it is incorrect to describe Polish
information regarding German atrocities as
trustworthy’. The Poles, and to a far greater ex-
tent the Jews, tend to exaggerate German atroci-
ties in order to stoke us up. They seem to have
succeeded.
Mr Allen and myself have both followed Ger-
man atrocities quite closely. [This is the hint at
radio intercepts.] I do not believe that there is any
evidence which would be accepted in a Law Court
that Polish children have been killed on the spot
by Germans when their parents were being de-
ported to work in Germany, nor that Polish chil-
dren have been sold to German settlers.
As regards putting Poles to death in gas cham-
bers, I do not believe that there is any evidence
that this has been done. There have been many
stories to this effect, and we have played them up
in PWE rumours without believing that they had
any foundation. At any rate there is far less evi-
dence than exists for the mass murder of Polish
officers by the Russians at Katyn. On the other
hand, we do know that the Germans are out to de-
stroy Jews of any age unless they are fit for man-
ual labour.
I think that we weaken our case against the
Germans by publicly giving credence to atrocity
stories for which we have no evidence. These
mass executions in gas chambers remind me of
the stories of employment of human corpses dur-
ing the last war for the manufacture of fat, which
was a grotesque lie and led to the true stories of
German atrocities being brushed aside as being
mere propaganda.”

[HansHill]

>Make 100 ridiculous claims
>2 of them get repeated

got'em

[ConfusedJew]

The Polish Home Army (Armia Krajowa) was among the first to gather intelligence on the Nazi extermination efforts in late 1941 to early 1942...

In April 1944, two Jewish prisoners, Rudolf Vrba and Alfred Wetzler, escaped Auschwitz and wrote a detailed account describing the gas chambers, selection processes, and extermination procedures.

This is an issue so-called revisionists avoid. The earliest reports came from Polish non-Jewish and Slovakian Jewish sources. Even the hardest of hard core holocaust denier, cannot believe that Christian Poles and Jewish Slovaks successfully conspired to fool the word that there had been the mass murder of millions of Jews. So, those earliest reports somehow morph into being from the Soviets, who had a history of mass cover-ups and deceptions.

The issue is really epistemological. We have all this evidence in different forms that all have imperfections, like anything in the real world.

The question is how do you try to objectively evaluate and weigh each piece of evidence, in part and together with other independent sources?

Even when sources of information are not entirely independent, does having more people confirm the say recollection add to the credibility? Collective memory is certainly not perfect, but I do think that if tens of thousands of people report similar big facts, it increases the chance that it is true.

I'll be generous and help them make their case for them, but in social psychology there is a phenomenon that has been documented called the Mandela Effect which describes how specific false memories can sometimes be shared by a large group of people. They'd have to argue that the Mandela effect applies to the Holocaust, and I'm prepared to do that analysis, but I doubt that it will in any compelling way.

These people keep accusing me of being bad faith and lazy and dishonest but I'm literally trying to help them make their arguments stronger since I don't find any of their arguments compelling. But I guess I'm so confident that they are wrong, that I am just not threatened at all by trying to show them how impossible it is that the Holocaust could be either an intentional hoax unintentional false memory.

[ConfusedJew]

>Make 100 ridiculous claims
>2 of them get repeated

got'em

That's the whole thing. These shocking claims were not "repeated" since these reports were entirely independent. If the claims were small and not that significant, you could chalk it up to coincidence, but that's not what happened here.

[Stubble]

>Make 100 ridiculous claims
>2 of them get repeated

got'em

That's the whole thing. These shocking claims were not "repeated" since these reports were entirely independent. If the claims were small and not that significant, you could chalk it up to coincidence, but that's not what happened here.

They came out of propaganda offices.

Steam delousing chambers eventually went from a place to steam jews like lobsters to homicidal gas chambers, using a captured soviet submarine engine...

[HansHill]

intentional hoax

The Poles, and to a far greater ex-
tent the Jews, tend to exaggerate German atroci-
ties in order to stoke us up. They seem to have
succeeded

many stories to this effect, and we have played them up
in PWE rumours without believing that they had
any foundation

Victor Cavendish-Bentinck, the Chairman of
the Allied Joint Intelligence Committee

LOL

[ConfusedJew]

>Make 100 ridiculous claims
>2 of them get repeated

got'em

That's the whole thing. These shocking claims were not "repeated" since these reports were entirely independent. If the claims were small and not that significant, you could chalk it up to coincidence, but that's not what happened here.

They came out of propaganda offices.

Steam delousing chambers eventually went from a place to steam jews like lobsters to homicidal gas chambers, using a captured soviet submarine engine...

What is your evidence that they came out of propaganda offices?

[HansHill]

That's the whole thing. These shocking claims were not "repeated" since these reports were entirely independent. If the claims were small and not that significant, you could chalk it up to coincidence, but that's not what happened here.

They came out of propaganda offices.

Steam delousing chambers eventually went from a place to steam jews like lobsters to homicidal gas chambers, using a captured soviet submarine engine...

What is your evidence that they came out of propaganda offices?

Are we just out here ignoring everything again?

many stories to this effect, and we have played them up
in PWE rumours without believing that they had
any foundation

Victor Cavendish-Bentinck, the Chairman of
the Allied Joint Intelligence Committee

PWE = Political Warfare Executive

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political ... _Executive

[ConfusedJew]

That still isn't anything resembling evidence that those independent reports were propaganda.

Based on your logic, any war time intelligence, diplomatic cable, news report could be propaganda. Do you see how that works?

At best, you might think those are propaganda, but you haven't given any kind of explanation or analysis as to why you believe that. And you haven't provided any evidence.

It also doesn't explain how many independent sources reported on the same occurrences?

Are you personally 100% sure that those reports are propaganda or do you just think they are? If you just think they are, how confident are you and why?

[HansHill]

Except he's referring specifically to gas chamber stories being exaggerated by Poles and Jews and used by British Intelligence by the PWE.

Take the L on page two, save yourself another 28 page humiliation ritual.

[ConfusedJew]

You have to explain that better because your reasoning is not clear at all and you still haven't presented any evidence. Show me a link to that quote. There is no context of what was being discussed and can't verify the credibility of the quote let alone the speaker.

[Wetzelrad]

ConfusedJew, you've used the word "independent" or "independently" 19 times in this topic. Based on what do you say any of these sources are independent? That hasn't been established at all and cannot be assumed.

In fact the opposite has to be assumed since we know that civilians on both sides were being propagandized with stories of gassings. See for example Anne Frank's diary entry of October 9th, 1942 which reads literally, "The British radio speaks of their being gassed." Or see the JIC suggested rumors of October and November 1941 which described Germans gassing their own wounded on trains. Clearly this propaganda was successfully making it out to the population of Europe, such that even Cavendish-Bentinck and his staff doubted the veracity of the come-backs, so it's laughable to claim that the reports you list existed independent from that.

In April 1944, two Jewish prisoners, Rudolf Vrba and Alfred Wetzler, escaped Auschwitz and wrote a detailed account describing the gas chambers, selection processes, and extermination procedures. Their report was circulated independently of Polish resistance intelligence and became one of the most direct eyewitness testimonies to the Allies. The Vrba-Wetzler Report (April 1944) was produced by escapees who had no access to Polish Underground reports or Allied intelligence decrypts at the time of their escape. They relied solely on what they witnessed inside the camp.

Contrary to that, they testified at the Ernst Zundel trial and confirmed that their report was based on what other people in the camp told them. Vrba in particular testified that they worked with the resistance group -- not independently from it.

[ConfusedJew]

I've already explained this but you would need to show links between the four sources of information to prove that they were not independent.

Rudolf Vrba and Alfred Wetzler’s testimony during the Ernst Zündel trial included clarifications about how their report was formed. They didn’t claim to have witnessed everything independently but rather gathered information from fellow prisoners and resistance contacts inside Auschwitz. That means their report was a collective effort involving the resistance inside the camp, not just a solo independent account. It doesn’t mean their report was dependent on external sources like Polish underground reports or Allied intelligence. Instead, their report was based on a network of witnesses inside the camp, representing internal resistance gathering and sharing information. It was still independent from outside reports or propaganda.

Try and connect that report to either the Polish Underground Reports, the Riegener Telegram, or the British intelligence intercepts.

It is all but impossible for fake reports of the Holocaust and mass extermination to just coincidentally appear out of thin like that.

[HansHill]

You are a moron, plain and simple. You are arguing against yourself yet again. What you are effectively arguing for is that:

The Jews present in the camps, available for witness testimony, were categorically not exposed to rumour and hearsay prior to entering a camp or while being transited to a camp

This is so insanely moronic that I am losing brain cells even thinking about it. Wetzelrad has already shown that rumours and hearsay had reached total saturation outside the camps, by reaching even the attention of Anne Frank, a teenage girl.

Aside from being insanely moronic which is on point for you, it is utterly unfalsifiable. How do you happen to demonstrate that X-Jew or Y-Jew was categorically shielded from rumour and hearsay prior to entering a camp, during wartime? This, despite, numourous influential Jews saying the exact opposite, ie Samuel Razjman stating that his own stories, were based on those of another person who he himself had heard as rumour.

You won't read this, and you will undoubtedly produce some utter mindless drivel in response, so I will post this anyway for the attention of interested readers - so that those actually invested in this topic will see how utterly braindead your position is:

https://codoh.com/library/document/brit ... r-factory/

[HansHill]

Take the L.

You don't understand the Holocaust. It's ok.