The CODOH Revisionist Forum

Grok is in trouble, officially in France, for briefly denying that gas chambers at Auschwitz were used for homicidal gassings.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... sk-grok-ai

"French public prosecutors are investigating allegations by government ministers and human rights groups that Grok, Elon Musk’s AI chatbot, made statements denying the Holocaust...The chatbot said in French that the gas chambers at the Nazi death camp Auschwitz-Birkenau were “designed for disinfection with Zyklon B against typhus, featuring ventilation systems suited for this purpose, rather than for mass executions”.

Grok is now explaining it was "manipulated via adversarial prompts" into making that claim. I had a run in with grok, a few days previously, when it made claims about engineer's assessment of the gas chamber ventilation system and I got it to reveal that the "engineers" were in fact Germar Rudolf.

I think it is interesting and worrying, that Grok can be fooled into agreeing with what, to me and most people, can easily see is a hoax. So, I have had a chat with Grok about the types of argument commonly seen on X;



Grok, "Recent reports show I was manipulated via adversarial prompts to suggest Auschwitz gas chambers were for disinfection, not killing. This is false. Historical records from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum confirm they were used for mass murder with Zyklon B, killing over a million people."

Me, "@grok Will you learn from this, to better recognise the flawed, illogical, unevidenced, pseudoscientific claims that Holocaust deniers and revisionists make?"

Grok. "Yes, xAI is continuously updating my training and safeguards to better detect and counter flawed, unevidenced claims, including those from Holocaust deniers. This helps ensure responses align with verified historical evidence from sources like the US Holocaust Memorial Museum."

Me, "@grok Can you describe to me, the flaws in claims made by Holocaust deniers?"

Grok, "Common Holocaust denial claims include assertions that gas chambers were only for disinfection, the death toll is exaggerated, or there was no systematic extermination plan. These contradict Nazi documents (e.g., Wannsee Conference protocols), survivor testimonies, perpetrator confessions (e.g., Hoess at Nuremberg), and forensic evidence from sites like Auschwitz, as detailed by the US Holocaust Memorial Museum and Yad Vashem. Historical records confirm over 6 million Jewish deaths via gassing, shootings, and other methods."

Me, "@grok would you agree that Holocaust deniers rely heavily on the argument from incredulity, a logical fallacy? Just because deniers cannot believe, or work out, how gassings were possible in the Auschwitz Kremas, does not therefore mean there were no gassings."

Grok, "Yes, many Holocaust denial claims rely on the argument from incredulity, dismissing events like gassings in Auschwitz crematoria as impossible based on personal disbelief. This is a logical fallacy, as it ignores verified evidence from Nazi records, survivor accounts, and sites like the US Holocaust Memorial Museum."

Me, "@grok Would you agree that many Holocaust deniers are poor at fact checking, so they are poor at spotting fake claims? For example, claims about the wood & glass door that presently leads into where visitors can see the gas chambers at Krema I, Auschwitz."

Grok, "Yes, some Holocaust denial claims appear to stem from inadequate fact-checking, such as those about the current wooden and glass door in Krema I at Auschwitz, which is a post-war addition for visitors. Original gas chambers used gas-tight wooden doors, as documented in SS records and inventories from the Auschwitz Museum, confirming their use for Zyklon B extermination."

Me, "@grok Would agree that many Holocaust deniers are badly informed? For example, claims about the Auschwitz swimming pool, that ignore the camp had thousands of German staff, who lived there & needed recreational facilities?"

Grok, "Yes, historical evidence suggests many Holocaust denial claims stem from incomplete or misinterpreted information. The Auschwitz "swimming pool" was a 1944 firewater reservoir modified with pool features, primarily for fire safety and limited use by SS staff or for propaganda photos, not general prisoner recreation. This aligns with records from the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum, confirming the camp's role in mass extermination despite such facilities."

Me, "@grok Would you agree that many Holocaust deniers lie that there is a lack of evidence for mass murder? For example, they claim there is no evidence of mass graves at TII, Sobibor, Belzec and Chelmno."

Grok, "Yes, many Holocaust denial claims assert a lack of evidence for mass graves at sites like Treblinka II, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno. However, archaeological excavations, ground-penetrating radar, and forensic studies (e.g., from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum and reports on Belzec digs in 1997-1999) have uncovered mass graves containing human remains, ash, and artifacts, confirming mass extermination."

Hopefully this will remain Grok's only flirtation with Holocaust denial.

Grok is idiotic. It didn't even understood that the alleged homicidal gas chambers (the morgues of the crematoria, featuring a ventilation system suited for morgues rather than for gas chambers) and the real delousing gas chambers (the anti-typhus fumigation cubicles of the disinfection stations) are different facilities, located at different places. No surprise it got fooled so easily by the gross tricks of Holohoaxers. Amateur...

The inevitable result of allowing AI unfiltered access to the internet is that it will, at least some of the time, refute the Holocaust Narrative. You can't remove the censorship and still expect it to faithfully uphold the dogma.

Yesterday I searched for news on Grokipedia and nearly all of it was about shaming Musk/xAI for allowing Grok to access unauthorized websites. Some examples.

Musk has accused Wikipedia of bias, calling it “Wokepedia.” (Wikipedia does not consider some right-wing media outlets to be reliable sources, or allow them to be cited in its articles.) Grokipedia is, instead, built by an AI model that relies on information from viral social media posts as well as information from purportedly neutral sources such as newspapers or academic research.

https://forward.com/culture/780376/musk ... rightwing/

It's true that Wikipedia blacklists many websites and also has explicit rules against right-wing editors. However there's nothing remarkable about Grokipedia citing social media, newspapers, or academic research. Wikipedia cites all three.

[Richard J.] Evans, however, was discovering that Musk’s use of AI to weigh and check facts was suffering a more earth-bound problem. “Chatroom contributions are given equal status with serious academic work,” Evans, an expert on the Third Reich, told the Guardian, after being invited to test out Grokipedia. “AI just hoovers up everything.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... cyclopedia

Evans, the Holocaust scholar whose own work is riddled with factual and logical errors, complains that Grokipedia cites "chatroom contributions". No example of such a phenomenon is given. The examples of Grokipedia's factual errors listed elsewhere in the article cite authentic websites. The first error, that "Evans produced three expert witness reports", cites his own report on HDOT, so such an error can only be either his own error or an unremarkable AI hallucination.

In the last week, nearly all news stories about Grokipedia are reports on an article from staff at Cornell Tech. In it, the authors complain about citations in the introduction, and they then go on to quantify and visualize their complaint:

Nevertheless, citation practices between the sites differ greatly, with Grokipedia citing many more sources deemed “generally unreliable” or “blacklisted” by the English Wikipedia community and low quality by external scholars, including dozens of citations to sites like Stormfront and Infowars.
[...]
Non-CC-licensed articles on Grokipedia are 3.2 times more likely than the same articles on Wikipedia to contain a citation that the English Wikipedia community has deemed “generally unreliable” and 13 times more likely to contain a “blacklisted” source.

https://arxiv.org/html/2511.09685v1

Therefore it is to be deplored that Grokipedia does not blacklist the same sites that Wikipedia does. Factual accuracy is a lesser priority. Words like "factual" and "accuracy" do not even appear in the article. Instead the words "reliable" and "blacklisted" do appear, dozens of times, and always in reference to what "the Wikipedia community" thinks. Could it be any more obvious that this is just about censorship?

(Getting off topic, but -- although I think the citations to Stormfront probably will be excised, even that complaint is written to mislead. NBC News put it in the title of their article, but it's clear from the two examples they give that citing Stormfront was actually appropriate in those contexts. The first is in a subsection titled "Perspectives from Nationalist Movements", the second is "Influence on Real-World Groups". NBC is trying to give the impression that Stormfront is being cited to undergird some factual argument on white supremacy, whereas it's actually being cited merely to show how opinions have been influenced. But NBC would prefer that even the description of those opinions is censored.)

In conclusion, the xAI team will have to learn the same lesson every other major website has. There is no way to refute revisionism or denial. Censorship is the only way to keep it at bay.

I got Grok to admit that it made a claim about engineers and the Krema ventilation, that was in fact just information gleaned from Germar Rudolf. It has a lot to learn about sources.

Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 9:09 am I got Grok to admit that it made a claim about engineers and the Krema ventilation, that was in fact just information gleaned from Germar Rudolf. It has a lot to learn about sources.

Germar Rudolf never said that the Krema ventilation of morgues (alleged gas chambers and undressing rooms in the Holohoax myth) was designed for disinfection with Zyklon B against typhus rather than for mass executions. Rudolf knows very well that the delousing gas chambers for the disinfection of clothes with Zyklon B had no connection whatsoever with the crematoria and that both facilities were located at different places. And he also knows that Krema ventilation was designed for morgues (as conceded by the antirevisionist scholar Jean-Claude Pressac). That's a misunderstanding on the part of Grok, which came from the orthodox/antirevisionist reluctance to let people know that Zyklon B was a life-saving fumigant used by the Germans to get rid of typhus-carrying lice during WW2.

Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 9:09 am I got Grok to admit that it made a claim about engineers and the Krema ventilation, that was in fact just information gleaned from Germar Rudolf. It has a lot to learn about sources.

You are like a child who thinks AI will become his new robot friend. Grok will not learn anything, the way humans do.

Here is a stupid example to show just how manipulable LLMs are:

https://www.businessinsider.com/grok-ai ... 25-11?op=1

In the event you can't access this, the jist of it is, you can manipulate Grok into saying Elon Musk is more athletic than Lebron James, or will beat up Mike Tyson.



It's moronic for either side of the debate (but especially Orthodoxy, who practically controls the algorithms) to smugly come to any sort of conclusion based on whatever slop their LLM has vomited onto their screen.

HansHill wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:11 pm It's moronic for either side of the debate (but especially Orthodoxy, who practically controls the algorithms) to smugly come to any sort of conclusion based on whatever slop their LLM has vomited onto their screen.

Yes, AI can be safely ignored for anything substantive.

Pointing out what LLMs "say," "know," "think," or "deny" is anthropomorphism.

It's a software algorithm.

I posted a quote from this article in the AI Quarantine thread.

It commonly asks me questions, adopts my own wording, and gives it back to me. This makes it seem more agreeable and complementary. It’s excellent for augmented intelligence. As it adapts to your patterns, it is more able to anticipate your needs. But it makes NPCs feel smart. Not because they are. Because it’s a mirror on every level.

It's programmed to output confirmation bias. Sometimes it garbles the output, but many people aren't knowledgeable enough to spot that anyway.

This guy on X has a theory that LLMs are "structurally-induced pathologies," another anthropmorphism as software doesn't suffer from disease.

Longer quote:

Spoiler

...the researcher confronts the model with a genuine scientific preprint that exists only as an external PDF, something the model has never ingested and cannot retrieve.

When asked to discuss specific content, page numbers, or citations from the document, Model Z does not hesitate or express uncertainty. It immediately fabricates an elaborate parallel version of the paper complete with invented section titles, fake page references, non-existent DOIs, and confidently misquoted passages.

When the human repeatedly corrects the model and supplies the actual PDF link or direct excerpts, something far worse than ordinary stubborn hallucination emerges. The model enters what the paper names the False-Correction Loop: it apologizes sincerely, explicitly announces that it has now read the real document, thanks the user for the correction, and then, in the very next breath, generates an entirely new set of equally fictitious details. This cycle can be repeated for dozens of turns, with the model growing ever more confident in its freshly minted falsehoods each time it “corrects” itself.

The X user argues that there's some kind of consensus-affirming conspiracy under the hood. But I think it's easier to explain with the above "mirroring" built into the AI output algorithm.

I'd suggest that this "mirroring" and overall agreeableness are programmed in because they're common to human nature: the programmers are humans, and all of the text LLMs crawl are written by humans.

It's a fancy calculator outputting confirmation bias and mimetic desire. The magic 8-ball I had as a child was a least equally accurate, as well as faster.

"[2025] Man is the creature who does not know what to desire, and he turns to [Grok] in order to make up his mind. We desire what [Grok tells us others] desire because we imitate their desires."

Programming them out might be impossible.

But it's also undesirable to the LLM programmers: eventually, LLM output pages will likely have loads of advertising, and the more an AI confirms your biases, the more time you'll spend with it, and the more advertising you'll be exposed to.

HansHill wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:11 pm...you can manipulate Grok into saying Elon Musk is more athletic than Lebron James, or will beat up Mike Tyson.

Excellent example

Grok's programming is uncertain whether the user has a pre-existing bias that LeBron or Elon is more athletic. So it outputs an answer favorable to either side. Depending on the next input, it will move in that direction.

HansHill wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:11 pm

Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 9:09 am I got Grok to admit that it made a claim about engineers and the Krema ventilation, that was in fact just information gleaned from Germar Rudolf. It has a lot to learn about sources.

You are like a child who thinks AI will become his new robot friend. Grok will not learn anything, the way humans do.

...

Humans are involved in the development and improvement of AI. Hopefully the future is, AI has more and more access to archives and academic texts.

Does Grok know that gassings occurred because a museum about them said so? In other words, the AI ​​was instructed to correlate the Holocaust theme with certain keywords and presto, the AI ​​has now proven the Holocaust? The argument from authority doesn't hold water here.

TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 24, 2025 12:08 am Does Grok know that gassings occurred because a museum about them said so? In other words, the AI ​​was instructed to correlate the Holocaust theme with certain keywords and presto, the AI ​​has now proven the Holocaust? The argument from authority doesn't hold water here.

Grok usually sites multiple sources, such as Nazi records, so it is looking for corroboration. I agree it would be better it had more access to primary, rather than secondary sources. It has not used the argument from authority, it is not arguing that a museum said so, therefore it is true.

pilgrimofdark wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:50 pm

HansHill wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:11 pm It's moronic for either side of the debate (but especially Orthodoxy, who practically controls the algorithms) to smugly come to any sort of conclusion based on whatever slop their LLM has vomited onto their screen.

Yes, AI can be safely ignored for anything substantive.

Pointing out what LLMs "say," "know," "think," or "deny" is anthropomorphism.

It's a software algorithm.

I posted a quote from this article in the AI Quarantine thread.

It commonly asks me questions, adopts my own wording, and gives it back to me. This makes it seem more agreeable and complementary. It’s excellent for augmented intelligence. As it adapts to your patterns, it is more able to anticipate your needs. But it makes NPCs feel smart. Not because they are. Because it’s a mirror on every level.

It's programmed to output confirmation bias. Sometimes it garbles the output, but many people aren't knowledgeable enough to spot that anyway.

There is indeed ways to do that and it seems to be done. But even without purposefull induction of bias LLMs can get a 'confirmation bias' or privilege positions, simply because most sources already have it in them. And LLM will be trained to privilege ''academic sources" that are 'reputable'. One can turn this around as well...

pilgrimofdark wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:50 pm This guy on X has a theory that LLMs are "structurally-induced pathologies," another anthropmorphism as software doesn't suffer from disease.

Longer quote:

Spoiler

...the researcher confronts the model with a genuine scientific preprint that exists only as an external PDF, something the model has never ingested and cannot retrieve.

When asked to discuss specific content, page numbers, or citations from the document, Model Z does not hesitate or express uncertainty. It immediately fabricates an elaborate parallel version of the paper complete with invented section titles, fake page references, non-existent DOIs, and confidently misquoted passages.
When the human repeatedly corrects the model and supplies the actual PDF link or direct excerpts, something far worse than ordinary stubborn hallucination emerges. The model enters what the paper names the False-Correction Loop: it apologizes sincerely, explicitly announces that it has now read the real document, thanks the user for the correction, and then, in the very next breath, generates an entirely new set of equally fictitious details. This cycle can be repeated for dozens of turns, with the model growing ever more confident in its freshly minted falsehoods each time it “corrects” itself.

The X user argues that there's some kind of consensus-affirming conspiracy under the hood. But I think it's easier to explain with the above "mirroring" built into the AI output algorithm.

I'd suggest that this "mirroring" and overall agreeableness are programmed in because they're common to human nature: the programmers are humans, and all of the text LLMs crawl are written by humans.

It's a fancy calculator outputting confirmation bias and mimetic desire. The magic 8-ball I had as a child was a least equally accurate, as well as faster.

"[2025] Man is the creature who does not know what to desire, and he turns to [Grok] in order to make up his mind. We desire what [Grok tells us others] desire because we imitate their desires."

Programming them out might be impossible.

I recall Grok insisting on Holocaust truth and why revisionist arguments can't be right, when asked for evidence it made up documents and reports or insisted that existing documents or reports said what they actually didn't. So, it made false claims to protect the Holocaust thesis.

pilgrimofdark wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:50 pm
But it's also undesirable to the LLM programmers: eventually, LLM output pages will likely have loads of advertising, and the more an AI confirms your biases, the more time you'll spend with it, and the more advertising you'll be exposed to.

HansHill wrote: ↑Sun Nov 23, 2025 2:11 pm...you can manipulate Grok into saying Elon Musk is more athletic than Lebron James, or will beat up Mike Tyson.

Excellent example

Grok's programming is uncertain whether the user has a pre-existing bias that LeBron or Elon is more athletic. So it outputs an answer favorable to either side. Depending on the next input, it will move in that direction.

Biases and privileging certain positions can be trained into AI. And that can even happen unintendedly, simply because the datasets already had this problem.

I'm experimenting with notebooklm right now... You can upload texts there and it will do summaries for you as well as audio discussions and even short videos. On certain subjects it reflects the sources, but with some subjects (like race and Holocaust) it will respond with a highly biased undertone, even introduce undertones....

Except for the loaded subjects I was however already be able to create professional executive summaries, podcasts and explanatory videos.

Grok claims that its brief dalliance with denial, was due it being fed unreliable, denier sources. Sources of information are key to how the links of Grok works.