The CODOH Revisionist Forum

In a recent thread, I wrote a response to bombsaway, once again on the topic and question of events behind the Iron Curtain:

Callafangers wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 7:18 pm

bombsaway wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 4:02 pm
Just to be clear, I'm trying to assess whether you believe there is any evidence for this mass scrubbing of documents.

I've pointed out before that the USSR failed to cover up its own crimes, ones that would leave a much smaller paper trail, like Katyn.

Katyn was distinct given that an internationally-overseen excavation and investigation (German-led) had already taken place, and that the deaths were abundantly confirmed at the time and place as alleged, per this excavation/investigation and other findings which simply were not possible to conceal (this was pre-Iron Curtain).

What Katyn showed is that the Soviets were lying about German atrocities. With this event, the maliciously dishonest, conspiratorial nature of the Soviet Union regarding their framing and reporting of alleged German atrocities was confirmed beyond any doubt whatever. The fraudulent 'Katyn report' had one-hundred (100) signatures on it, from actual Soviet people -- all of whom had been forced or conditioned (or were simply self-motivated) to lie, and to sign their names on it. There are your 'witnesses'.

But it wasn't just Katyn. Soviet dishonesty and show trials extended all the way into (and beyond) the postwar East German trials, a spectacle where justice was only ever incidental. Soviet dishonesty became notorious globally, exposed ad nauseum during the Cold War era, despite the Iron Curtain.

The fact that there were some 'leaks' of Soviet atrocities throughout these periods is not evidence that the Soviets were fumbling idiots who could not keep a secret. It's suggestive that their secrets, their schemes, were so numerous and extensive that some inevitably fell through, despite their best efforts to prevent such exposure.

All of the evidence favors this interpretation. No informed, reasonable person would claim the Soviets were not good at keeping secrets. There are many which the world will never know, according to even top historians on the matter (see 1:12:00):

It got me thinking... given that every other argument for 'exterminationism' has totally fallen flat at this point, forcing Holocaust-believers to lean entirely into the question of "Where did they go?" as their last, desperate 'gotcha!' attempt against revisionists, here is the question I push back into their direction:

Answer YES or NO

Is it truly 'mere coincidence' that the linchpin of your position is centered on and reliant upon the reported demography within the most dishonest, conspiratorial government of all time, and behind their uniquely obfuscatory 'Iron Curtain' construct?

Callafangers wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 8:03 pm Answer YES or NO

Is it truly 'mere coincidence' that the linchpin of your position is centered on and reliant upon the reported demography within the most dishonest, conspiratorial government of all time, and behind their uniquely obfuscatory 'Iron Curtain' construct?

I mean, it really doesn't get any clearer than that. Put this succinctly, it really just makes a mockery of the entire orthodox position in regards to Jewish resettlement in the Occupied Eastern Territories, which - again - is the actual official, documented policy of the Third Reich, proven by hundreds of documents including actual correspondence between German officials about the resettlement efforts and their plans for Jewish 'reservoires' after war's end.

To say - where did they go - is the linchpin is underselling the problem. Really it is that all the assertions about what actually happened ("resettlement", the conspiracy to fabricate documents, suppress and destroy documents, suppress non-orthodox witness statements) are unevidenced.

If you think resettlement of the kind orthodoxy does not believe happened is in fact evidenced, provide that evidence. We know that German Jews were sent into Russia in 41-42, so for you the challenge would be to evidence something else (those Jews being maintained in Russia - new Jews being sent there like the Reinhardt Jews, etc)

bombsaway wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 9:39 pm To say - where did they go - is the linchpin is underselling the problem. Really it is that all the assertions about what actually happened ("resettlement", the conspiracy to fabricate documents, suppress and destroy documents, suppress non-orthodox witness statements) are unevidenced.

If you think resettlement of the kind orthodoxy does not believe happened is in fact evidenced, provide that evidence. We know that German Jews were sent into Russia in 41-42, so for you the challenge would be to evidence something else (those Jews being maintained in Russia - new Jews being sent there like the Reinhardt Jews, etc)

Missing Bob, So We Sob

Joe: "My neighbor Bob is missing."

Sarah: "Oh, Bob? He's dead."

Joe: "What?!! That's terrible! How do you know?"

Sarah: "Larry said so."

Joe: "Is Larry credible?"

Sarah: "No, not really."

Joe: "Uhh, then he's just missing, we don't know he's dead."

Sarah: "Nuh-uh, Jackie said he's dead too. He's been murdered."

Joe: "But didn't you also say Jackie is a notorious, self-promoting liar? And who killed him?"

Sarah: "Fred did it, at least that's what Larry and Jackie said."

Joe: "Do Larry and Jackie know each other?"

Sarah: "Yeah, they're always fighting each other's battles, and they both hate Fred."

Joe: "So... all you're going on, to say Bob is dead, is that Larry and Jackie -- known liars and co-conspirators -- are saying that Fred, whom they both loathe, has killed Bob?"

Sarah: "Fred also sort of admitted it, but Larry and Jackie caught him cheating on his wife and threatened to tell her, so there's that."

Joe: "Fascinating. What else happened?"

Sarah: "It's worth mentioning that Fred has had a rough relationship with Bob, which is presumably why Larry and Jackie regard their story as believable, and Bob was at Fred's house recently... but all of Fred's written plans show he intended to drop Bob off at McDonald's in Seattle."

Joe: "Did Fred ever go to Seattle?"

Sarah: "Yes, he went there regularly, so he totally could have brought Bob along with him but it's hard to confirm."

Joe: "Interesting... anything else of note?"

Sarah: "Yes, Bob is actually great friends with Larry and Jackie as well. And Larry and Jackie have setup a GoFundMe campaign to raise money to avenge Bob's death, payable regardless of whether or not he winds up dead."

Joe: "Oh, marvelous. So let me get this straight: Larry, Jackie, and Bob are all great friends who hate Fred, and they're trying to frame Fred for murder while also profiting immensely. They offer not a shred of verifiable or physical evidence for their claims that Bob is actually dead. Is that right?"

Sarah: "Not quite -- Larry and Jackie have provided DOCUMENTS; an official police report that includes a statement from Larry and Jackie's friend Walter, who also says Bob is dead! These documents come from the police station. But Larry is an office clerk at the police station and his uncle is the police chief (and also hates Fred), so there's that."

Joe: "Wow. Did anyone ever call the McDonald's to see if Bob showed up?"

Sarah: "Yes, McDonald's said they haven't seen him... but Jackie is the manager at the McDonald's, and she was the only one working that day. She scheduled an 'Iron Shift' for herself, which meant also deactivating the security cameras. Apparently, she also stole $600 from the cash register, so everyone knows she's dishonest as hell."

Joe: "But you believe their story about Bob and Fred?"

Sarah: "Oh, totally. We must give all our money to the GoFundMe and never forget what's happened to Bob, and that Fred is evil for doing it!"

Joe: "Amazing."

curioussoul wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 8:28 pm I mean, it really doesn't get any clearer than that. Put this succinctly, it really just makes a mockery of the entire orthodox position in regards to Jewish resettlement in the Occupied Eastern Territories, which - again - is the actual official, documented policy of the Third Reich, proven by hundreds of documents including actual correspondence between German officials about the resettlement efforts and their plans for Jewish 'reservoires' after war's end.

Seems many Jews were put to good use fixing roads, rail, telegraph poles damaged by partisans. This was in Belarus and Ukraine, though many were used to get shale oil in the Kaiserwald. Fangers has recently found evidence of camps fixing roads in the Ukraine, no name, as they move as the roads move. Jews were also used on the Channel Islands helping build the Atlantic Wall; they were safe there under the auspices of the Todt company.
Left Behind

Between June 13 and September 12, 1942, over 2,250 Jewish men were deported from Belgium to Northern France as forced labourers for Organisation Todt (OT). This German company was responsible for large construction projects such as the Atlantic Wall: the Nazi defence line along the European coast.
The bureau’s local offices used municipal Jewish registers and lists of unemployed Jews to claim Jews as forced labourers, which had been made possible by the anti-Jewish decrees of March 11 and May 8, 1942. Disease spread quickly, leading to numerous deaths among the Jewish workers. The exchange of letters and postcards with their families as well as, in some cases, the payment of a small wage to the relatives in Belgium created a false sense of security, leading to the workers not fleeing the work camps and their families remaining at their legal address in Antwerp, with disastrous consequences.

Statistical analysis shows that the deportation rate for the Organisation Todt workers from Antwerp was 84,82% whereas 73,52% for their relatives, in comparison to 56,03% for the complete Jewish population in Antwerp and 45% to 50% for the whole of Belgium.

Jewish male prisoners at the Les Mazures labour camp, 1942

Callafangers wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 11:43 pm
Missing Bob, So We Sob

Joe: "My neighbor Bob is missing."

Sarah: "Oh, Bob? He's dead."

Joe: "What?!! That's terrible! How do you know?"

Sarah: "Larry said so."

Joe: "Is Larry credible?"

Sarah: "No, not really."

Joe: "Uhh, then he's just missing, we don't know he's dead."

Sarah: "Nuh-uh, Jackie said he's dead too. He's been murdered."

Joe: "But didn't you also say Jackie is a notorious, self-promoting liar? And who killed him?"

Sarah: "Fred did it, at least that's what Larry and Jackie said."

Joe: "Do Larry and Jackie know each other?"

Sarah: "Yeah, they're always fighting each other's battles, and they both hate Fred."

Joe: "So... all you're going on, to say Bob is dead, is that Larry and Jackie -- known liars and co-conspirators -- are saying that Fred, whom they both loathe, has killed Bob?"

Sarah: "Fred also sort of admitted it, but Larry and Jackie caught him cheating on his wife and threatened to tell her, so there's that."

Joe: "Fascinating. What else happened?"

Sarah: "It's worth mentioning that Fred has had a rough relationship with Bob, which is presumably why Larry and Jackie regard their story as believable, and Bob was at Fred's house recently... but all of Fred's written plans show he intended to drop Bob off at McDonald's in Seattle."

Joe: "Did Fred ever go to Seattle?"

Sarah: "Yes, he went there regularly, so he totally could have brought Bob along with him but it's hard to confirm."

Joe: "Interesting... anything else of note?"

Sarah: "Yes, Bob is actually great friends with Larry and Jackie as well. And Larry and Jackie have setup a GoFundMe campaign to raise money to avenge Bob's death, payable regardless of whether or not he winds up dead."

Joe: "Oh, marvelous. So let me get this straight: Larry, Jackie, and Bob are all great friends who hate Fred, and they're trying to frame Fred for murder while also profiting immensely. They offer not a shred of verifiable or physical evidence for their claims that Bob is actually dead. Is that right?"

Sarah: "Not quite -- Larry and Jackie have provided DOCUMENTS; an official police report that includes a statement from Larry and Jackie's friend Walter, who also says Bob is dead! These documents come from the police station. But Larry is an office clerk at the police station and his uncle is the police chief (and also hates Fred), so there's that."

Joe: "Wow. Did anyone ever call the McDonald's to see if Bob showed up?"

Sarah: "Yes, McDonald's said they haven't seen him... but Jackie is the manager at the McDonald's, and she was the only one working that day. She scheduled an 'Iron Shift' for herself, which meant also deactivating the security cameras. Apparently, she also stole $600 from the cash register, so everyone knows she's dishonest as hell."

Joe: "But you believe their story about Bob and Fred?"

Sarah: "Oh, totally. We must give all our money to the GoFundMe and never forget what's happened to Bob, and that Fred is evil for doing it!"

Joe: "Amazing."

Ha ha ha!

Brilliant!

Callafangers wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 8:03 pm ...

Answer YES or NO

Is it truly 'mere coincidence' that the linchpin of your position is centered on and reliant upon the reported demography within the most dishonest, conspiratorial government of all time, and behind their uniquely obfuscatory 'Iron Curtain' construct?

No.

1 - Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Italy, Austria, West Germany and Greece, all never behind the Iron Curtain, provide evidence of at least part of their Jewish population being identified, arrested and transported, east or north, and that the majority did not return after the war. So they also participate in the supposed hoax and are outwith Soviet influence.

2 - Denmark and Finland refused, to the most part, to cooperate with the Nazis and the whereabouts of their Jewish populations during the war is known. They also do not fall under Soviet influence.

3 - It is not coincidence that most of the killings took place in the east, since the vast majority of European Jews lived in the east. It made sense for the Nazis to transport western and southern European Jews to the same places they were mass murdering eastern Jews.

4 - It is the Poles, and Polish and Slovakian escaped prisoners, who provided the original Holocaust narrative, not the Soviets. So-called revisionists play down the role of the Polish Government in Exile in London, which was not under Soviet influence. The majority of the killings took place in Poland, which whilst behind the Iron Curtain, retained its status as a nation, unlike Ukraine and the Baltci States. When Communism collapsed, and the Soviets admitted to being responsible for Katyn, and any reason for Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic States to support a Soviet hoax ended, all of those countries continued to admit to their responsibility and role in the Holocaust.

5 - According to historians, Romania, an Axis country aligned to the Nazis, conducted its own Holocaust, killing Jews with no Nazi influence or assistance. Is that a hoax? Why do the other Communist countries still admit to their roles in the Holocaust, long after the ending of Soviet influence? If Ukraine had evidence of a Soviet hoax, do you not think we would know about it by now, after Putin used a supposed rise in Nazism as one of his excuses to invade?

6 - A popular denier trope on X, is to point out that Churchill, Roosevelt and de Gaulle did not write about the Holocaust. But, neither did Stalin. Indeed, there was never an official Soviet history of the Holocaust, or a memorial to it. Why would the supposed promoters of the Holocaust hoax, not promote it?

Nessie wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 10:52 am
No.

1 - Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Italy, Austria, West Germany and Greece, all never behind the Iron Curtain, provide evidence of at least part of their Jewish population being identified, arrested and transported, east or north, and that the majority did not return after the war. So they also participate in the supposed hoax and are outwith Soviet influence.

2 - Denmark and Finland refused, to the most part, to cooperate with the Nazis and the whereabouts of their Jewish populations during the war is known. They also do not fall under Soviet influence.

You answered "No", seeming to imply the linchpin of your position is not the Soviet Union, and yet the Jews of all these nations you listed were allegedly sent to the Soviet Union. Do you suppose the nations of each Jew's origin was able to communicate with them telepathically, even once they were behind the Iron Curtain?

Nessie wrote:3 - It is not coincidence that most of the killings took place in the east, since the vast majority of European Jews lived in the east. It made sense for the Nazis to transport western and southern European Jews to the same places they were mass murdering eastern Jews.

Which killings? Your attempts to quantify these rely on unsubstantiated estimates or patterns of atrocity lies. I'm guessing you meant to say "made NO sense for the Nazis to transport..." but you're wrong -- it makes perfect sense, when you have partisan/guerrilla activity in an area with a subversive population that is embedded into the local structures and territory, to regard that local [Jewish] population as far more of a threat than those you've brought in externally, who will seldom speak the local language and are carefully controlled throughout their movements (they are already in captivity). This eastbound movement sifted Jews through as many locations needed, until properly quarantined through war's end. This is what the official policy (and candid records like Goebbels' diary) suggest.

Nessie wrote:4 - It is the Poles, and Polish and Slovakian escaped prisoners, who provided the original Holocaust narrative, not the Soviets. So-called revisionists play down the role of the Polish Government in Exile in London, which was not under Soviet influence. The majority of the killings took place in Poland, which whilst behind the Iron Curtain, retained its status as a nation, unlike Ukraine and the Baltci States. When Communism collapsed, and the Soviets admitted to being responsible for Katyn, and any reason for Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic States to support a Soviet hoax ended, all of those countries continued to admit to their responsibility and role in the Holocaust.

Yes and we all know how reliable that "original narrative" has been, and how much "Poles, and Polish and Slovakian escaped prisoners" were eager to tell the whole truth which could exonerate and benefit their former captors. The Poles had their own obvious political and personal motives against Germany, and their stories are quite often as laughably absurd as the Jewish ones.

Nessie wrote:5 - According to historians, Romania, an Axis country aligned to the Nazis, conducted its own Holocaust, killing Jews with no Nazi influence or assistance. Is that a hoax? Why do the other Communist countries still admit to their roles in the Holocaust, long after the ending of Soviet influence? If Ukraine had evidence of a Soviet hoax, do you not think we would know about it by now, after Putin used a supposed rise in Nazism as one of his excuses to invade?

The people you say are 'admitting' to anything were not even alive during the war. These are people advancing a narrative because the victors of WW2 became the top global powers thereafter, meaning that there are myriad ways to get smaller, less influential nations to curry their favor.

Nessie wrote:6 - A popular denier trope on X, is to point out that Churchill, Roosevelt and de Gaulle did not write about the Holocaust. But, neither did Stalin. Indeed, there was never an official Soviet history of the Holocaust, or a memorial to it. Why would the supposed promoters of the Holocaust hoax, not promote it?

Nessie, how on Earth do you think this is a 'win' for you? You add another name to the list of leading figure biographies who do not even say so much as a footnote about the 'Holocaust', and you think this is proof the 'Holocaust happened'? Amazing.

The Soviet Unions actions and interests remain shrouded in mystery. Even today, there are major debates about how and whether Stalin was 'antisemitic' at all. Most would say he certainly was, but it was something he kept more or less obscure. His omission of the 'Holocaust' was likely due to recognizing such a discussion would have to mostly be about Jews, but Soviet interests preferred emphasizing the suffering of "Soviet citizens", instead. Thus, there are many reasons why Stalin may have excluded this, but far more if he had either (1) killed hundreds of thousands of Jews at/near war's end, and/or (2) entered into a covert agreement to relocate quarantined Jews into Israel or globally. If Germany had truly made all the Jews vanish (by 'gas chambers', no less) it would seem far more unusual that Stalin/Churchill/de Gaulle would not write about this.

Callafangers wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 11:43 pm

bombsaway wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 9:39 pm To say - where did they go - is the linchpin is underselling the problem. Really it is that all the assertions about what actually happened ("resettlement", the conspiracy to fabricate documents, suppress and destroy documents, suppress non-orthodox witness statements) are unevidenced.

If you think resettlement of the kind orthodoxy does not believe happened is in fact evidenced, provide that evidence. We know that German Jews were sent into Russia in 41-42, so for you the challenge would be to evidence something else (those Jews being maintained in Russia - new Jews being sent there like the Reinhardt Jews, etc)

Missing Bob, So We Sob

Joe: "My neighbor Bob is missing."

Sarah: "Oh, Bob? He's dead."

Joe: "What?!! That's terrible! How do you know?"

Sarah: "Larry said so."

Joe: "Is Larry credible?"

Sarah: "No, not really."

Joe: "Uhh, then he's just missing, we don't know he's dead."

Sarah: "Nuh-uh, Jackie said he's dead too. He's been murdered."

Joe: "But didn't you also say Jackie is a notorious, self-promoting liar? And who killed him?"

Sarah: "Fred did it, at least that's what Larry and Jackie said."

Joe: "Do Larry and Jackie know each other?"

Sarah: "Yeah, they're always fighting each other's battles, and they both hate Fred."

Joe: "So... all you're going on, to say Bob is dead, is that Larry and Jackie -- known liars and co-conspirators -- are saying that Fred, whom they both loathe, has killed Bob?"

Sarah: "Fred also sort of admitted it, but Larry and Jackie caught him cheating on his wife and threatened to tell her, so there's that."

Joe: "Fascinating. What else happened?"

Sarah: "It's worth mentioning that Fred has had a rough relationship with Bob, which is presumably why Larry and Jackie regard their story as believable, and Bob was at Fred's house recently... but all of Fred's written plans show he intended to drop Bob off at McDonald's in Seattle."

Joe: "Did Fred ever go to Seattle?"

Sarah: "Yes, he went there regularly, so he totally could have brought Bob along with him but it's hard to confirm."

Joe: "Interesting... anything else of note?"

Sarah: "Yes, Bob is actually great friends with Larry and Jackie as well. And Larry and Jackie have setup a GoFundMe campaign to raise money to avenge Bob's death, payable regardless of whether or not he winds up dead."

Joe: "Oh, marvelous. So let me get this straight: Larry, Jackie, and Bob are all great friends who hate Fred, and they're trying to frame Fred for murder while also profiting immensely. They offer not a shred of verifiable or physical evidence for their claims that Bob is actually dead. Is that right?"

Sarah: "Not quite -- Larry and Jackie have provided DOCUMENTS; an official police report that includes a statement from Larry and Jackie's friend Walter, who also says Bob is dead! These documents come from the police station. But Larry is an office clerk at the police station and his uncle is the police chief (and also hates Fred), so there's that."

Joe: "Wow. Did anyone ever call the McDonald's to see if Bob showed up?"

Sarah: "Yes, McDonald's said they haven't seen him... but Jackie is the manager at the McDonald's, and she was the only one working that day. She scheduled an 'Iron Shift' for herself, which meant also deactivating the security cameras. Apparently, she also stole $600 from the cash register, so everyone knows she's dishonest as hell."

Joe: "But you believe their story about Bob and Fred?"

Sarah: "Oh, totally. We must give all our money to the GoFundMe and never forget what's happened to Bob, and that Fred is evil for doing it!"

Joe: "Amazing."

RIP Bob! #NeverForget

Nessie wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 10:52 am1 - Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Italy, Austria, West Germany and Greece, all never behind the Iron Curtain, provide evidence of at least part of their Jewish population being identified, arrested and transported, east or north

Is any of that disputed by anyone? The fact that these Jews, for the most part, didn't come back is precisely the flashpoint of revisionism vs. orthodoxy, not evidence of gassings.

This has probably been published here before, but more than a million Jews were evacuated to the USSR in 1943 and accepted by the Soviet Union. The Jews themselves admitted this at the time.

American Jew Activist James N. Rosenberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_N._Rosenberg thanks Russia for accepting 1.750.000 jews in 1943 written up in a telegram of the JTA (Jewish Telegraphic Agency)
of some 1,750,000 Jews who succeeded in escaping the Axis since the outbreak of hostilities, about 1,600,000 were evacuated by the Soviet Government from Eastern Poland and subsequently occupied Soviet territory and transported far into the Russian interior and beyond the Urals. About 150,000 others managed to reach Palestine, the United States, and other countries beyond the seas.”

“We Jews,” Mr. Rosenberg said, “rightly give thanks for the innumerable resolutions of sympathy for Jews, adopted by well-meaning men and groups horrified by the hideous tragedy which has befallen our people. Russia has chosen deeds. She has given life, asylum, bread, and shelter to a vast Jewish population. These facts are not sufficiently known. To make them known to every Jew in this country is a task of supreme importance for the Jewish Council for Russian War Relief. Need I ask what would have happened to those Jews had Russia left them where they were?”
https://www.jta.org/1943/07/02/archive/ ... -rosenberg

bombsaway wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 9:39 pm To say - where did they go - is the linchpin is underselling the problem. Really it is that all the assertions about what actually happened ("resettlement", the conspiracy to fabricate documents, suppress and destroy documents, suppress non-orthodox witness statements) are unevidenced.

If you think resettlement of the kind orthodoxy does not believe happened is in fact evidenced, provide that evidence. We know that German Jews were sent into Russia in 41-42, so for you the challenge would be to evidence something else (those Jews being maintained in Russia - new Jews being sent there like the Reinhardt Jews, etc)

You are completely misunderstanding how probability works. We don't need to "prove" the Soviet Union did anything. You are the one that has to rule that out. All we have to do is show what the nature of the Soviet Union is and whether they would be willing to do that. And it turns out, yes, the facts absolutely bare out that they would be willing to do that. Now it doesn't prove they did, but it proves you need to "rule out" them doing so before you can "rule in" the extermination claims. You get how this works now?

fireofice wrote: ↑Thu May 29, 2025 4:00 am

bombsaway wrote: ↑Tue May 27, 2025 9:39 pm To say - where did they go - is the linchpin is underselling the problem. Really it is that all the assertions about what actually happened ("resettlement", the conspiracy to fabricate documents, suppress and destroy documents, suppress non-orthodox witness statements) are unevidenced.

If you think resettlement of the kind orthodoxy does not believe happened is in fact evidenced, provide that evidence. We know that German Jews were sent into Russia in 41-42, so for you the challenge would be to evidence something else (those Jews being maintained in Russia - new Jews being sent there like the Reinhardt Jews, etc)

You are completely misunderstanding how probability works. We don't need to "prove" the Soviet Union did anything. You are the one that has to rule that out. All we have to do is show what the nature of the Soviet Union is and whether they would be willing to do that. And it turns out, yes, the facts absolutely bare out that they would be willing to do that. Now it doesn't prove they did, but it proves you need to "rule out" them doing so before you can "rule in" the extermination claims. You get how this works now?

If you believe that the Soviet Union *did things* I would say this is insufficient. What are the requirements when making an assertion about large scale state actions in history? -which is what you're doing with both resettlement and the corresponding cover up by the USSR.

Callafangers wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 6:39 pm

Nessie wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 10:52 am
No.

1 - Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Italy, Austria, West Germany and Greece, all never behind the Iron Curtain, provide evidence of at least part of their Jewish population being identified, arrested and transported, east or north, and that the majority did not return after the war. So they also participate in the supposed hoax and are outwith Soviet influence.

2 - Denmark and Finland refused, to the most part, to cooperate with the Nazis and the whereabouts of their Jewish populations during the war is known. They also do not fall under Soviet influence.

You answered "No", seeming to imply the linchpin of your position is not the Soviet Union, and yet the Jews of all these nations you listed were allegedly sent to the Soviet Union. Do you suppose the nations of each Jew's origin was able to communicate with them telepathically, even once they were behind the Iron Curtain?

The idea of the SU hiding millions of Jews after 1945, from all over Europe, with none escaping or otherwise communicating their existence back to their home country and for that to continue even after the collapse of the SU, is conspiracists drivel.

Nessie wrote:3 - It is not coincidence that most of the killings took place in the east, since the vast majority of European Jews lived in the east. It made sense for the Nazis to transport western and southern European Jews to the same places they were mass murdering eastern Jews.

Which killings? Your attempts to quantify these rely on unsubstantiated estimates or patterns of atrocity lies. I'm guessing you meant to say "made NO sense for the Nazis to transport..." but you're wrong -- it makes perfect sense, when you have partisan/guerrilla activity in an area with a subversive population that is embedded into the local structures and territory, to regard that local [Jewish] population as far more of a threat than those you've brought in externally, who will seldom speak the local language and are carefully controlled throughout their movements (they are already in captivity). This eastbound movement sifted Jews through as many locations needed, until properly quarantined through war's end. This is what the official policy (and candid records like Goebbels' diary) suggest.

The killing of the millions gassed, you say did not happen at the AR camps, Chelmno or A-B. Do you also deny that c2 million were shot in the Baltic countries, Belorussia and Ukraine?

Nessie wrote:4 - It is the Poles, and Polish and Slovakian escaped prisoners, who provided the original Holocaust narrative, not the Soviets. So-called revisionists play down the role of the Polish Government in Exile in London, which was not under Soviet influence. The majority of the killings took place in Poland, which whilst behind the Iron Curtain, retained its status as a nation, unlike Ukraine and the Baltci States. When Communism collapsed, and the Soviets admitted to being responsible for Katyn, and any reason for Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic States to support a Soviet hoax ended, all of those countries continued to admit to their responsibility and role in the Holocaust.

Yes and we all know how reliable that "original narrative" has been, and how much "Poles, and Polish and Slovakian escaped prisoners" were eager to tell the whole truth which could exonerate and benefit their former captors. The Poles had their own obvious political and personal motives against Germany, and their stories are quite often as laughably absurd as the Jewish ones.

But they are supported by every European nation that sent Jews to Poland and the Nazis who worked in the death camps there.

Nessie wrote:5 - According to historians, Romania, an Axis country aligned to the Nazis, conducted its own Holocaust, killing Jews with no Nazi influence or assistance. Is that a hoax? Why do the other Communist countries still admit to their roles in the Holocaust, long after the ending of Soviet influence? If Ukraine had evidence of a Soviet hoax, do you not think we would know about it by now, after Putin used a supposed rise in Nazism as one of his excuses to invade?

The people you say are 'admitting' to anything were not even alive during the war. These are people advancing a narrative because the victors of WW2 became the top global powers thereafter, meaning that there are myriad ways to get smaller, less influential nations to curry their favor.

Why does Romania still admit to its role in the Holocaust, killing its own Jewish citizens?

Nessie wrote:6 - A popular denier trope on X, is to point out that Churchill, Roosevelt and de Gaulle did not write about the Holocaust. But, neither did Stalin. Indeed, there was never an official Soviet history of the Holocaust, or a memorial to it. Why would the supposed promoters of the Holocaust hoax, not promote it?

Nessie, how on Earth do you think this is a 'win' for you? You add another name to the list of leading figure biographies who do not even say so much as a footnote about the 'Holocaust', and you think this is proof the 'Holocaust happened'? Amazing.

Great leaders ignore their failures. They all do.

The Soviet Unions actions and interests remain shrouded in mystery. Even today, there are major debates about how and whether Stalin was 'antisemitic' at all. Most would say he certainly was, but it was something he kept more or less obscure. His omission of the 'Holocaust' was likely due to recognizing such a discussion would have to mostly be about Jews, but Soviet interests preferred emphasizing the suffering of "Soviet citizens", instead. Thus, there are many reasons why Stalin may have excluded this, but far more if he had either (1) killed hundreds of thousands of Jews at/near war's end, and/or (2) entered into a covert agreement to relocate quarantined Jews into Israel or globally. If Germany had truly made all the Jews vanish (by 'gas chambers', no less) it would seem far more unusual that Stalin/Churchill/de Gaulle would not write about this.

Stalin and the SU government did little to nothing to promote the Holocaust, leaving it instead to the Poles and Western Nations. So much for them being the main participant.

curioussoul wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 10:23 pm

Nessie wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 10:52 am1 - Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Italy, Austria, West Germany and Greece, all never behind the Iron Curtain, provide evidence of at least part of their Jewish population being identified, arrested and transported, east or north

Is any of that disputed by anyone? The fact that these Jews, for the most part, didn't come back is precisely the flashpoint of revisionism vs. orthodoxy, not evidence of gassings.

It is circumstantial evidence, consistent with them having been murdered. If millions had returned after the war, that would be circumstantial evidence, consistent with them not having been murdered. You clearly still have not grasped the basics of evidencing.