The CODOH Revisionist Forum

PrudentRegret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 7:29 pm Documents also suggest a transit camp at Malkinia, which was a major railroad junction, i.e.

On December 10, 1942, the transport that had left the Malkinia transit camp on December 10, 1942, reached KL Auschwitz with 2,500 Jews and undesirable elements.

I do not think the "Malkinia transit camp" is a reference to T-II.

Transport documents also show these Jewish transports stopping for i.e. 20 minutes at Malkinia. Perhaps references to the destination "Treblinka" are a reference to a transit camp at Malkinia or facilities in the immediate area. Treblinka station is very close to Malkinia. It makes perfect sense for a major junction at the border like Malkinia to have transit facilities in the immediate vacinity. What doesn't make sense is the undocumented shunting operation to this small camp a kilometer away from what is documented as the actual destination of these trains.

What these documents do not indicate though is the shunting operation from Treblinka to the T-II camp. Documents show the trains stopping at the train stations, not the T-II camp.

T-II is over 3 kilometers from the documented destination of those transports- Treblinka station. Treblinka station is closer to the Malkinia junction than it is to the T-II camp.

The document I posted says "final destination, Treblinka (the camp)". The other document says a stop over at Malkinia on the way to Treblinka. So what was "Treblinka (the camp)"? A heretofore unknown super high traffic (servicing 5000 per day) transit camp ? Something doesn't add up here.

The actual transport documents have timetables which show, i.e.

Warschau Danz Bahnhof...Warsaw Danzinger railway station
Warschau Marki...stopped 17 mins
Tluszcz...stopped 27 mins Tluszcz is a major railway junction
Malkinia...Stopped 19 mins Malinia is a major railway junction
Treblinka...7 minute journey time from Malkinia

So not only are these transports stopping at other stops, including major junctions, but the final destination of "Treblinka" as it appears in this document is 3.5km from the Treblinka work camp. This transport document for example does not denote that the Treblinka Work Camp is the destination of the transport. So not only are you assuming that every single passenger stayed on the train, and nobody got off at the places where the train stopped along the way through major junctions, but you are furthermore assuming that they were all transported over 3.5k away from the documented destination to the Treblinka Work Camp. That is not documented anywhere.

It is entirely possible that document you refer to is referring to the same facilities referred to by the Malkinia transit camp in other documents.

The key fact here is that documents do not establish the Treblinka work camp was the destination of these transports. It was not. By no accounts did these transports actually go to the camp. They stopped at Treblinka station or Malkinia and were brought there by a separate train, although that is not supported by documents. That's the mainstream position.

As a reminder, the earliest map of the "Treblina extermination camp" was put on the Warsaw-Bialystok line. This was the map included in Wiernik's account of Treblinka



The Treblinka Work Camp, T-II, was off of a separate spur which branched from an entirely different main line, the Malkinia-Siedlce line like 6km away. Likely this is more circumstantial evidence of transit facilities within the Malkinia area which became identified as "Treblinka" as it was likely in the Treblinka/Malkinia area.

Mistaking T-II for being on the Warsaw-Bialystok line is a ridiculous error for anyone to make who was supposedly at T-II for a year.

This was the dinky, industrial-use spur outside of T-II, who would mistake that for being the Warsaw-Bialystok line? Nobody would, whoever made this map was describing a completely different location than what we call T-II today.



Of course the layout of buildings and of the camp in the map does not at all approximate "T-II" either.

borjastick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:14 pm Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose


If you genuinely believe that the Nazis mass deaded one million, two million or whatever figure you are comfy with at Auschwitz or in any other camp you choose to reference please stop splashing water in our faces and for the love of God show some solid proof.

I think the issue is you are incredibly critical of the evidence put forward. The archeological reports confirming large graves full of cremains are false, the documents confirming it are fabricated (eg the Just Memo, the FG report, other documents like the Greiser correspondence you take the strategy of pretending it doesn't exist). The witnesses aren't telling the truth. Even Eichmann's private statements to NS sympathizers in Argentina are stories meant to scare people or some such.

It's fine if you want to be critical, just be critical about your own narrative as well. Then you'll find that of the hypotheses put forward concerning the "missing Jews" the mainstream one is inordinately better evidenced than anything revisionists have. In history, the best evidenced hypothesis is the one considered most likely to be true. At best revisionists can argue for some uncertainty, you can't make strong arguments for large amounts of Jews surviving in Nazi control. This is a positive assertion, and for that you need evidence, which you don't have.

PrudentRegret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 9:19 pm

The key fact here is that documents do not establish the Treblinka work camp was the destination of these transports. It was not. By no accounts did these transports actually go to the camp.

I mean these are 99 year olds and babies being transported, so no one would say they're going to a work camp.

You can guss it up however you want, but the document says "final destination Treblinka (camp)". Malkinia is not Treblinka. You're saying essentially the document is inaccurate, which is a possibility, but that's not really an honest reading.

Same with the document speaking of mass transports to Belzec, and Sobibor, and Treblinka (through Malknia). All I can say is even revisionists aren't going to find this theory (of thet non-work Treblinka camp not being a destination) convincing. You should send this thread to Germar Rudolph and see what he has to say.

PrudentRegret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 9:32 pm As a reminder, the earliest map of the "Treblina extermination camp" was put on the Warsaw-Bialystok line. This was the map included in Wiernik's account of Treblinka



The Treblinka Work Camp, T-II, was off of a separate spur which branched from an entirely different main line, the Malkinia-Siedlce line like 6km away. Likely this is more circumstantial evidence of transit facilities within the Malkinia area which became identified as "Treblinka" as it was likely in the Treblinka/Malkinia area.

Mistaking T-II for being on the Warsaw-Bialystok line is a ridiculous error for anyone to make who was supposedly at T-II for a year.

This was the dinky, industrial-use spur outside of T-II, who would mistake that for being the Warsaw-Bialystok line? Nobody would, whoever made this map was describing a completely different location than what we call T-II today.



Of course the layout of buildings and of the camp in the map does not at all approximate "T-II" either.

Bombsaway, the map I just posted is the earliest map of "Treblinka"! And it's the map used by Wiernik. And it's placed on the Warsaw-Bialystok line which would put it in or around Malkinia.

Whoever created this map obviously considered these facilities on this line to be "Treblinka," and this map is clearly not depicting what we all call "T-II". So if this is the same "Treblinka" which is noted as the destination in certain transport documents that would fit with the notion that there were transit facilities on the Warsaw-Bialystok line, in or around Malkina, which became known as "Treblinka" and was likely referenced interchangeably with the "Malkinia Transit Camp" in documents.

I don't think a single "mislabeled" map is proof of the existence of a heretofore unknown transit camp near Treblinka. You have to do more here, preferably archeological research. If there was a large camp locals would have known about it, maybe you can get hints from them if you visit. Also you can ask if their relatives knew about Treblinka, maybe you'll get indication there was no extermination camp there. I don't understand why revisionists haven't done this kind of field work, which is standard for investigative journalism. You guys go on vacations right? Stop by Poland next time.

It's not just "mislabeled", nothing about this map indicates the location of "T-II," nothing about the map resembles that camp. It is highly notable that the first ever map of Treblinka, and the one that features in Weirnik's account, places the facilities on the Warsaw-Bialystok line which is right where Malkinia is. And that there is also reference to a "Malkinia transit camp" and the fact that Malkinia-Treblinka seem to be interchangeable in certain documents.

PrudentRegret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 10:59 pm It's not just "mislabeled", nothing about this map indicates the location of "T-II," nothing about the map resembles that camp. It is highly notable that the first ever map of Treblinka, and the one that features in Weirnik's account, places the facilities on the Warsaw-Bialystok line which is right where Malkinia is. And that there is also reference to a "Malkinia transit camp" and the fact that Malkinia-Treblinka seem to be interchangeable in certain documents.

This your supposition.

By mislabeled I mean in your view. Weirnick says it's an extermination center, not some other kind of camp.

"In 1941–1942 there was a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street"
https://sztetl.org.pl/en/towns/m/982-ma ... -community

So Werinick, in your speculative history, is not talking about the Malkinia transit camp either, because it wasn't by the railroad. You must be imagining there was some other large camp there, I suggest you start digging along the tracks if you want to prove its existence.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:32 am "In 1941–1942 there was a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street"
https://sztetl.org.pl/en/towns/m/982-ma ... -community

So Werinick, in your speculative history, is not talking about the Malkinia transit camp either, because it wasn't by the railroad. You must be imagining there was some other large camp there, I suggest you start digging along the tracks if you want to prove its existence.

Wow, Bombsaway, thank you for sharing this... if anybody can help and find any more context to the original source of this that would be really helpful.

You can see back on RODOH we were actually speculating that this was the area that contained the Transit Camp as described by that map! And this area is exactly "eastern part of town, along Nurska Street."

https://rodoh.info/thread/57/treblinka- ... il?page=10

Here's a geographical reference for what we are discussing, from John Ball's work:



You can see the north is Malkinia. Then, going South and crossing the Bug you reach Treblinka and Treblinka station. Then going further South along the Malkinia-Siedlce line, the spur branches off to the Treblinka Quarry and currently alleged extermination camp.

John Ball identified a camp north of Malkinia as the "Malkinia transit camp" which you can see in that image. Contra John Ball, we were speculating at Rodoh that the area east of town in Malkinia housed the transit camp. Here is a modern day aerial view of Malkinia:



The blue line is the Warsaw-Bialystok line. The Red line is Nurska Street. The camp we all call "Treblinka II" is far from the boundaries of this satellite image, about 6.5km south of the image above. The yellow box is about where the next image was taken.

This image was taken by the Luftwaffe in April 1944. Yad Vashem, funnily enough, has a caption for this image that reads Treblinka, Poland, A German aerial photograph, probably of the camp's area, 16/04/1944.

I have added some annotations and added Wiernik's map to show the correspondence.



In the RODOH thread I even took a stroll through google street view and saw the many rail tracks at this exact location and concluded that this would be a logical place for a transit camp:



Again we made these observations BEFORE we heard of any accounts of "a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street". That is a very significant piece of information. Putting the transit camp South of Warsaw-Bialystok and along Nurska Street would put the Malkinia Transit Camp - AKA Treblinka at the location we identified in the RODOH thread. I never thought I would just see a source say that there was a transit camp there, though, that is WILD. OBVIOUSLY Wiernik's map is referencing this camp, not the "Treblinka Work Camp" 7 kilometers away from the Warsaw-Bialystok line, which looks nothing like that map!

I suspect that many Revisionists for the first time would be learning about this account of a Jewish transit camp on the east side of town at Malkinia along Nurska street. That was "Treblinka." The Treblinka Work Camp was a secret Jewish sorting camp created to carry out Operation Reinhardt in the Warsaw District, similar to the Pabianice sorting camp.

This is a great project for you, I'll offer advice on your research of you like.

In Wiernik's drawing the camp is directly off the line. We also know it's Nurka street so it should be pretty much here

https://www.google.com/maps/dir//52.692 ... FQAw%3D%3D

That's specific. Now you have to verify this is the location of the Malkinia transit camp. Bell's picture has it north of the tracks.

I know Ball's picture places it North of the tracks and we were proposing it was instead inside the "loop". We placed it inside the "loop" that is bounded by Warsaw-Bialystok on the North and Nurska Street on the South. I admit I don't know where you are going with this. But a transit camp anywhere inside that loop, particularly in the area where there appears to be the outlined remains of a dismantled camp and buildings that seem to have a very similar shape to Wiernik's map. That would absolutely qualify as a location "off" the Warsaw-Bialystock line and "along" Nurska street. To argue otherwise would be to put way too much weight on scale in Wiernik's map, or to torture the definition of "along" a street.

Did you look at this image?



There appears to be a dismantled camp at this exact location. There are even outlines that appear to closely resemble Weirnik's map.

I don't know if Malkinia camp was in this location. "Eastern part" is vague. You should be able to find some record of it's actual location or verify in some other way. Until you do, it's a maybe from me on this point.

borjastick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:14 pm Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

This thread is entertaining yes of course but very frustrating for those few who are thus far residents of this parish. Because for the most part we are back doing the same old thing which is listening to holocaust believers, lie, obfuscate, split hairs, deflect, use irrelevant issues and who bring up and play the same old bullshit stories and quotes and tall stories, and fairy tales of how xxx thousands died, or were executed and the intention of this order or instruction from this leader or that senior party official meant gas chambers, mass industrialised murder and the ability of Harry Potter or David Blaine or Penn and Teller was called into action to make all evidence of said crimes disappear and not even a blade of grass was touched.

If you genuinely believe that the Nazis mass deaded one million, two million or whatever figure you are comfy with at Auschwitz or in any other camp you choose to reference please stop splashing water in our faces and for the love of God show some solid proof. The fact is that without bodies and gas chambers and any number of other acceptable pieces of forensics and technical proof we could be dancing around this tree until the second coming of Christ.

So far, without referencing any witnesses, since revisionists cannot produce any witness who worked at an AR camp, there have been various claims as to what happened inside the camps. Scott thinks hygiene stops. Mattogno and Hunt thinks transit camps, which is the majority view. There is a variation of transit camp, which is customs stop. PR thinks property, not people went to the camps, where it was sorted to be used and sold.

In this thread, PR has been suggesting he has witnesses and other evidence, but he produces no witnesses and the documents are the ones historians use to evidence mass transports to the camp, or what the camp layout was. He has no evidence of property transportation and sorting, that is not also evidence of people arriving at the camp and have all their possessions stolen from them.

Whilst revisionists are all over the place, with contradictory purposes for the AR camps, for which they fail to produce supporting evidence, multiple historians have agreed that AR was the clearing of ghettos, murder and theft of property, for which they have corroborating, supporting evidence.

This dance will continue for as long as there are people who prefer to believe what they cannot agree on or evidence, because they want to believe the gassing is a conspiracy.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:32 am ....

"In 1941–1942 there was a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street"
https://sztetl.org.pl/en/towns/m/982-ma ... -community

....

Another theory, put forward by Nazgul, is that the ghetto transports dropped people off at the stops en route to Treblinka, such that by the time they got to their destination, they were either empty, or only a few remained. The theory is that AR was closing down the ghettos and moving people to camps in the General Government area and that the stops such as Tluszcz, which PR references, had camps that received those people.

The problem with that theory is the purpose and dates for those places. Every town had a temporary camp, or ghetto, that local Jews were rounded into.

https://sztetl.org.pl/en/towns/m/982-ma ... -community

"In 1941–1942 there was a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street. According to memories, it was under the open sky[1.9]. It is known that terrible conditions prevailed there, and people stayed in pits dug in the frozen ground"

That source refers to the Malkinia camp as a transit camp, because it was the first stage in the transportation process that then sent Jews to ghettos, such as in Warsaw, or to camp, such as TII. The Malkinia camp was closed either before, or in the first months that TII was open and operating.

The same happened in Tluszcz;

https://www.holocausthistoricalsociety. ... uszcz.html

"In September 1940, the Germans established a ghetto in Tluszc and the Jews were forced to move out of their homes and were resettled into the homes of Polish peasants located just outside the town"

That ghetto closed in May 1942, out of the 800 Jews, nearly 600 ended up at the Warsaw ghetto and the rest selected to work at labour camps in Wilanow. There is no direct link between the Malkinia or Tluszcz camp/ghetto and TII. That transports to Treblinka stopped at those places, is merely because those places had stations and were in small towns, all of which at some time, had a small temporary camp/ghetto, as local Jews were being initially rounded up.

Revisionists cannot reach any form of consensus, their efforts to produce an evidenced history is all over the place.