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Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2025 7:12 pm
by TlsMS93
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 5:33 pm
No religion, or country, allows graves to be disturbed, without good reason and permissions.
There is a ton of physical, archaeological, witness, documentary and circumstantial evidence for mass killings and burials at TII, but you refuse to accept it and demand a mass desecration of the site. You will never convince any rational person that is needed.
No religion is a very careless statement of yours, you only see this exaggerated concern with mortal remains in the Jewish religion
I'm not asking for anything, but if you're trying to make me believe that there are remains of millions of people in an area, I'll only accept it if you do that, otherwise it's religion. Jews believe that the remains of Adam and Eve are in the Tomb of the Patriarchs for example
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2025 2:28 am
by Fred Ziffel
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 3:48 pm
Fred Ziffel wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 3:31 pm
This may be of help to calculate the amount of wood needed
What amount of heat loss occurs in open air burns?
See attached
Just because a denier cannot work out to their satisfaction how the cremations could have occurred as described, does not therefore mean no cremations.
Name calling,... the last refuge of someone with no answers and no arguments
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2025 8:06 am
by Nessie
Stubble wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 7:07 pm
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 5:33 pm
TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 3:58 pm
It would be hard to deny if they found tons and tons of human ashes gathered from one area. Now, what was found does not allow us to say that millions died and this is a criminal investigation.
An area of 2 hectares, up to 7m deep, is 140,000m3, or the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools. That is of an order that is way larger than any other mass grave site. Geophysical surveys around the memorial have found 11 large pits, 5 of which are in the area where witnesses located the mass graves. That allows everyone, except deniers, to say there are many corpses buried there.
We cannot extrapolate from there that more are there and we will not change it because a religious group has its own laws against desecration and with that we have to base ourselves on witnesses who can only claim that there was cremation but not the cause of death or the quantity.
No religion, or country, allows graves to be disturbed, without good reason and permissions.
There is a ton of physical, archaeological, witness, documentary and circumstantial evidence for mass killings and burials at TII, but you refuse to accept it and demand a mass desecration of the site. You will never convince any rational person that is needed.
You don't by chance have links to the study showing and describing these pits, do you?
https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/35 ... s12PhD.pdf
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2025 8:31 am
by Stubble
Nessie, where is the lidar? You know, the lidar they did at the site? Where is it?
Also, they obviously didn't look at your map before they did their survey, otherwise they'd know they put everything in the wrong spot...
Also, just a curiosity, anybody ever wonder how many Olympic swimming pools you could fit in the rose bowl?
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2025 11:09 am
by Nazgul
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 5:33 pm
An area of 2 hectares, up to 7m deep, is 140,000m3, or the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools. That is of an order that is way larger than any other mass grave site. Geophysical surveys around the memorial have found 11 large pits, 5 of which are in the area where witnesses located the mass graves. That allows everyone, except deniers, to say there are many corpses buried there.
He keeps on carrying on.
www.vho.org/GB/c/AmicusCuriaeDemjanjuk.html
The Central Jewish Historical Commission in Poland, compiled in late 1945, [which] stated that the terrain of the Treblinka II camp had been pulverized with aerial bombs and unexploded artillery duds a few months after its liberation by an engineers unit of the 65th Red Army. This obliteration of traces of the Treblinka II camp by the Soviets took place because the Soviet propaganda machine tried to attach a 3,500,000 victim-count to this small, 12-hectare transit camp. Apparently, the Soviets were afraid that the Allies might request an international commission of investigation of the camp, as demanded by the November 15th, 1942 report of the underground government of the Warsaw ghetto. The report of the Central Jewish Historical Commission in Poland was explicit in putting the blame for this obliteration of the camp where it belonged, on the Red Army, for the: "premeditated destruction of evidence of German crimes and atrocities as well as profanation of partially cremated human remains and ashes."
After this pounding I bet there was more than 11 large pits. The probability of shells and bombs hitting areas of interest are quite high.
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:28 am
by Nessie
Shelling does not cause cremated remains to be buried over a large area, or specific pits with rectilinear shapes, slopes and edges.
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:29 am
by Nessie
Stubble wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 8:31 am
Nessie, where is the lidar? You know, the lidar they did at the site? Where is it?
Also, they obviously didn't look at your map before they did their survey, otherwise they'd know they put everything in the wrong spot...
Also, just a curiosity, anybody ever wonder how many Olympic swimming pools you could fit in the rose bowl?
For details on the Lidar survey, read the link I provided.
What is in the wrong spot?
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:35 am
by Stubble
Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:29 am
Stubble wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 8:31 am
Nessie, where is the lidar? You know, the lidar they did at the site? Where is it?
Also, they obviously didn't look at your map before they did their survey, otherwise they'd know they put everything in the wrong spot...
Also, just a curiosity, anybody ever wonder how many Olympic swimming pools you could fit in the rose bowl?
For details on the Lidar survey, read the link I provided.
What is in the wrong spot?
I did. The lidar isn't in there.
Overlay those maps on top of the first map you posted, then tell me if anything lines up.
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:04 am
by Nessie
Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:35 am
Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:29 am
Stubble wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 8:31 am
Nessie, where is the lidar? You know, the lidar they did at the site? Where is it?
Also, they obviously didn't look at your map before they did their survey, otherwise they'd know they put everything in the wrong spot...
Also, just a curiosity, anybody ever wonder how many Olympic swimming pools you could fit in the rose bowl?
For details on the Lidar survey, read the link I provided.
What is in the wrong spot?
I did. The lidar isn't in there.
More details here;
https://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4305/1/Aba ... -proof.pdf
There are images if you access via this link;
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7418300189
Or you can search images "Lidar Treblinka".
Overlay those maps on top of the first map you posted, then tell me if anything lines up.
The various maps drawn by escaped prisoners, SS staff, or prepared based on descriptions, do not always line up. They are consistent with the overall shape of the perimeter and location of key structures inside. Yet again, you fail to take into account memory.
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:06 am
by Nazgul
Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:28 am
Shelling does not cause cremated remains to be buried over a large area, or specific pits with rectilinear shapes, slopes and edges.
Perhaps not but it will deposit buried material beneath the surface after a blast; train dead were buried and would account for any rectangular graves. By chance many shellings would create any shape.
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:15 am
by Stubble
Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:04 am
Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:35 am
Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:29 am
For details on the Lidar survey, read the link I provided.
What is in the wrong spot?
I did. The lidar isn't in there.
More details here;
https://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4305/1/Aba ... -proof.pdf
There are images if you access via this link;
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7418300189
Or you can search images "Lidar Treblinka".
Overlay those maps on top of the first map you posted, then tell me if anything lines up.
The various maps drawn by escaped prisoners, SS staff, or prepared based on descriptions, do not always line up. They are consistent with the overall shape of the perimeter and location of key structures inside. Yet again, you fail to take into account memory.
Uh, I don't see your 56 Olympic swimming pools. Anywhere on that. At all.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that those roundish rather small deformations were test pits from the Soviet extraordinary commission.
I don't suppose you have a map of their investigation, do you? For comparative purposes?
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:50 am
by Nazgul
Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:15 am
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that those roundish rather small deformations were test pits from the Soviet extraordinary commission.
The site of the current TII was used as a Soviet artillary and bombing range.
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:56 am
by Stubble
Nazgul wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:50 am
Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:15 am
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that those roundish rather small deformations were test pits from the Soviet extraordinary commission.
The site of the current TII was used as a Soviet artillary and bombing range.
This are a bit large for impact deformation from artillery or bombing.
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 10:11 am
by Nessie
Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:15 am
Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:04 am
Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:35 am
I did. The lidar isn't in there.
More details here;
https://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4305/1/Aba ... -proof.pdf
There are images if you access via this link;
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7418300189
Or you can search images "Lidar Treblinka".
Overlay those maps on top of the first map you posted, then tell me if anything lines up.
The various maps drawn by escaped prisoners, SS staff, or prepared based on descriptions, do not always line up. They are consistent with the overall shape of the perimeter and location of key structures inside. Yet again, you fail to take into account memory.
Uh, I don't see your 56 Olympic swimming pools. Anywhere on that. At all.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that those roundish rather small deformations were test pits from the Soviet extraordinary commission.
I don't suppose you have a map of their investigation, do you? For comparative purposes?
No, the Polish 1945 report is only available in book form, to buy or borrow. I relied on the sections Mattogno translated.
The 56 swimming pools refers to the volume the Nazis had available to them where the mass graves were located, which the Polish investigation identified. There are revisionists who try to claim the camp was too small to contain such huge mass graves, which is clearly wrong.
Re: The murder mill Treblinka II
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 10:29 am
by Stubble
No, it very clearly is too small. That's like saying 3,000 people can fit in lk1.
Where on that patch of dirt do you bury 2x the population of liverpool?