The CODOH Revisionist Forum

Stubble wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:34 am So far as bizarre claims go, saying Christians frame jews for murdering children is up there man.

There are literally only two possibilities: either Jews murder children or Christians frame them for doing so. If Jews had a tradition or habit of murdering children, it would happen a lot more often and everywhere Jews live. But it doesn’t. That leaves the other possibility. Remind me what medieval Christians thought about Jews?

You claim that this is confined to medieval Europe.

No, I said the accusations started in medieval Europe and have been mostly limited to Europe. I’m an historian of 19th century Europe so I’m aware of most cases.

That's simply not true. Ritual child murder is covered in the bible. It is described by early greeks. Evidence is in the archeological record.

Yes, ritual child murder is described in the Bible and by the Greeks, but not Jews doing it. In fact, the Bible clearly shows the Israelites not doing it. Rather than the common ritual of sacrificing the first born to the gods, which the Israelites continued to do with animals, the Israelites didn’t murder their children for sacrifice.

The first time I brought this fact up, you didn't even address it. Instead you said it was post crusades, Christian exclusive and then you claimed it was the work of child murdering pedophiles that were scapegoating jews.

Yeah, you write long posts of bullshit so I try to focus on the bigger points.

If the defense is that my ancestors were intolerant liars, and scapegoating pedophiles, imagine my surprise when you say I'm the one making 'truly bizarre claims'.

I’m saying that pedophiles likely killed the children who were identified as being ritually murdered. And either they themselves or others in their towns blamed the Jews.

That doesn’t mean that all your ancestors were murdering pedophiles. Get a grip.

But if your ancestors were medieval Christians, then where Jews were concerned, they were very likely highly intolerant.

Jews however protect jewish pedophiles from justice. Today.

Your bizarre focus is noted. Jewish criminals routinely go to Israel in hopes they can duck extradition. That includes pedophiles. There’s only ever been one exception: Meyer Lansky.

Most people fleeing justice would, if they had the means, choose to flee to a place that wouldn’t extradite them. Not rocket science.

If we are dealing in hypotheticals, imagine being a descended from blood drinking pedophiles and telling descendants of people who sought justice that it is their fault.

Simple question: If Jews are blood-drinking pedophiles, then why have there been so few cases of blood libel, starting only in the medieval period, and almost entirely limited to Europe? Got an explanation for that? Because you need one if you really believe that.

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:59 am
Simple question: If Jews are blood-drinking pedophiles, then why have there been so few cases of blood libel, starting only in the medieval period, and almost entirely limited to Europe? Got an explanation for that? Because you need one if you really believe that.

Cope

https://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/video ... 1063807202

https://www.jta.org/archive/twenty-thou ... f-a-people

Simple question: If Jews are blood-drinking pedophiles, then why have there been so few cases of blood libel, starting only in the medieval period, and almost entirely limited to Europe? Got an explanation for that? Because you need one if you really believe that.

This part gets rather complicated. It involves missing children and misdirection (think 'satanic panic').

Basically, the jewish practice has a layer of concealment and plausible deniability layered over it. When someone engaged is found, they are not jewish. They are 'satanic' or something else. Looking at the various investigations of people like Ted Gunderson, you will find the tales continue. You will also find the striking consistency with description of jewish ritual murder. You will find it again in south and central America, the Caribbean and Africa. I'm sure you will say 'it's just the locals scapegoating the jew for kidnapping, sex trafficking and torturing children'. I have my doubts about that.

The problem becomes when I have to 'prove' jewish involvement, I fail. So, surely it is not jews you will say.

I also noticed the word play you did with 'Israelites'. Since you have done this, and not used the word jew, I'm going to suppose that I don't have to quote to you chapter and verse describing the bronze age god of the hebrews talking to various jews about his displeasure with the jews abandoning him and giving children to ba'al, or moloch or whomever else.

At this point, we have reached an impasse. I cannot absolutely prove jewish ritual murder, just as I cannot prove it is carried out by jews and not jews who say they are jews but are not.

Rest assured, I believe what I am saying. If I could prove it, the practice would either end or go even deeper under ground.

HansHill wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 4:22 pm

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:59 am
Simple question: If Jews are blood-drinking pedophiles, then why have there been so few cases of blood libel, starting only in the medieval period, and almost entirely limited to Europe? Got an explanation for that? Because you need one if you really believe that.

Cope

https://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/video ... 1063807202

https://www.jta.org/archive/twenty-thou ... f-a-people

You actually made my point for me. You’re not very smart, are you?

Stubble wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:45 pm The problem becomes when I have to 'prove' jewish involvement, I fail. So, surely it is not jews you will say.

lol. Pathetic.

Rest assured, I believe what I am saying. If I could prove it, the practice would either end or go even deeper under ground.

You’re such a hero!

At this point, we have reached an impasse. I cannot absolutely prove jewish ritual murder, just as I cannot prove it is carried out by jews and not jews who say they are jews but are not.

So did you want to circle back around to your claim about Jews coming to Europe more than 2,000 years ago with established business practices, all for the purpose of fleecing the hapless goyim?

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 9:53 pm

At this point, we have reached an impasse. I cannot absolutely prove jewish ritual murder, just as I cannot prove it is carried out by jews and not jews who say they are jews but are not.

So did you want to circle back around to your claim about Jews coming to Europe more than 2,000 years ago with established business practices, all for the purpose of fleecing the hapless goyim?

Well, I didn't make that specific charge, although I levied a charge of usurpation and usury, and in my opinion, that pair of charges are inseparable.

Basically, as a rootless people spread across continents, the jews became facilitators of finance across boundries with the establishment of great money houses. In these money houses, they further inflated their wealth by running on a fractional reserve system (basically) since not everyone called on their coin at once. Should the debt begin to be called in, these money houses would collectively pay their debt.

These houses began to finance nations for such was their wealth. In doing this, they charged great interest. Everywhere they went, in a short time, they began to control the land through default. Through first inflation and then deflation the jew would buy up everything. This method was used time and time again.

There is a video called 'America: Freedom to fascism' that has a pretty decent historiography of jewish banking practices specific to the window you prescribed but also going a little further on the timeline in both directions in the first hour IIRC.

One thing is for sure, it is a complicated and multifaceted bit of our history, and I'm keen to hear your perspective.

Stubble wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:47 pm Basically, as a rootless people spread across continents, the jews became facilitators of finance across boundries with the establishment of great money houses. In these money houses, they further inflated their wealth by running on a fractional reserve system (basically) since not everyone called on their coin at once. Should the debt begin to be called in, these money houses would collectively pay their debt.

I don’t fundamentally disagree with that summary. Fractional-reserve banking, remember, also comes with tremendous risk for things like bank runs.

These houses began to finance nations for such was their wealth. In doing this, they charged great interest. Everywhere they went, in a short time, they began to control the land through default. Through first inflation and then deflation the jew would buy up everything. This method was used time and time again.

I think you’re oversimplifying here.

First, remember that countries also frequently borrowed from other countries, either directly in the form of aid or indirectly through trade. International trade couldn’t exist without a credit system of some kind. Banks obviously also participated in that credit system, but far less so since fiat currency became the standard.

Second, there were also very powerful banks in Europe without any Jewish control or influence. Chief among Renaissance banking families was the Medici family, although others were also important, including the Fuggers and Welsers but only later the Rothschilds and Warburgs.

Third and most importantly, banks can’t cause inflation all by themselves. Inflation has to have a cause, either a disruption in supply, a surge in demand, or an increase in the money supply (for instance through quantitative easing). It is not the bank’s responsibility to control monetary policy (chiefly the amount of money in circulation), and they certainly can’t control supply and demand. Particularly if there is a national bank (and the US for all intents and purposes has that in the form of the Federal Reserve), the government should be working with the banks to control inflation.

Remember too that inflation makes it easier to pay off debt. That being the case, even if banks could cause inflation on their own, they would be cheating themselves in being paid back on loans with money that is worth less than when the loan was originally extended. If you and I can both agree that, regardless of why, Jews lending money want to earn a profit, then we must also agree that inflation undermines that goal.

Finally, I’d ask what’s fundamentally different between Jews and any other middleman minority in what you describe. All charged interest rates under certain conditions that were difficult to pay. And more importantly, all held a larger percentage of the national economies in which they operated than their absolute number would suggest. I’ve seen estimates that Armenians owned 30% of the Ottoman economy going into WWI. And that problem didn’t go away for Turkey. Exorbitant taxation was levied on Armenian, Greeks, and Jews in Turkey during WWII to help create an ethnic Turkish bourgeoisie.

I don’t recall which historian said this, and I’m paraphrasing, but it was famously said that you can tell what year a German principality obtained its own bourgeoisie by what year they expelled their Jews. That’s probably a bit of an exaggeration, but it points to a genuine problem that is hardly specific to Jews and that was created by the existence of middleman minorities who could charge interest on money (Catholics and Muslims couldn’t) and exploit ethnic international trade relationships to the benefit of the countries in which they lived.

If the result is income and/or wealth inequality, then I agree that this is a big problem and that it falling along ethnic lines is a recipe for violence.

It is the job of responsible governments to implement policies to alleviate the effects of such inequalities. Expelling people is rarely helpful since generations of experience in finance has usually been an advantage not shared by peasant majorities seeking to elevate a bourgeoisie. Several countries in the developing world have expelled their middleman minorities (Uganda and Tanzania their Indians and Arabs; Indonesians their Chinese) and not had their economies return to pre-expulsion levels.

There is a video called 'America: Freedom to fascism' that has a pretty decent historiography of jewish banking practices specific to the window you prescribed but also going a little further on the timeline in both directions in the first hour IIRC.

I’ve seen it. You know the filmmaker Aaron Russo is Jewish, right? There are some decent points, but historians are sort of allergic to so called grand narratives.

I’ve seen it. You know the filmmaker Aaron Russo is Jewish, right? There are some decent points, but historians are sort of allergic to so called grand narratives.

Of course. I don't dislike him for it either. He was a good man.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about my judenhass. I don't 'hate' individual jews. I hate what the jewish culture does as a collective. I hate jewry.

/shrug

To be more specific, I don't believe he personally is a blood drinking pedophile for example. He is a man who happens to be jewish.

The grand conspiracy, well, that leads us to the Willard Hotel speech;



Of note, another man who is jewish.

/shrug

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 9:45 pm

https://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/video ... 1063807202

https://www.jta.org/archive/twenty-thou ... f-a-people

You actually made my point for me. You’re not very smart, are you?

So anyway what's this video about Numar?

It’s about Canaanites sacrificing their children to their god, Moloch. The Torah specifically instructs the Israelites not to sacrifice their children.

Tell me something: God tells Abraham to kill his son Isaac and offer him as a burnt sacrifice. Does Abraham do this?

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:43 pm It’s about Canaanites sacrificing their children to their god, Moloch. The Torah specifically instructs the Israelites not to sacrifice their children.

Tell me something: God tells Abraham to kill his son Isaac and offer him as a burnt sacrifice. Does Abraham do this?

"B-b-but we we warned to stop sacrificing our children!!"

That probably sounded better in your head, Numar.

For my fellow non-Jews reading this, here is a good source that will give you a primer on this topic, and you'll see Numar's pilpul for what it is.



From the concluding chapter:

Insofar as we
can tell, there were at least three different rites that involved the sacrifice of
children to Yahweh in Iron Age Israel, each having its own distinct purpose
and history. The general sacrifice of firstborn children served to acknowledge
Yahweh’s claim to all firstlings and firstfruits, applied specifically to children.
Offering a firstborn child to Yahweh had the practical effect of ensuring that
Yahweh would bless, multiply, and protect subsequent progeny—an entirely
comprehensible concern in a society with infant mortality rates that may well
have approached 50%. Although not all Israelites, and in my opinion prob-
ably far from most, actually sacrificed their firstborn children, there seems to
be evidence that at least some took Yahweh’s claim to firstborn children quite
literally. Because such evidence is attested as early as the Covenant Code and
as late as Ezekiel, the Yahwistic groups who engaged in actual firstborn sacri-
fice do not appear confined to a particular period of Israelite history. Instead,
it appears that groups who literally offered their firstborn children existed
simultaneously with those who did not, probably throughout a significant
portion of Israel’s history.

and to circle this back around to the pogroms, a very relevant quote:

...it is easy to imagine that it would not require many child sacrifices to arouse the atten-
tion of groups that did not endorse or practice such rites.

That is, White people.

So... you think a stage show put on almost 100 years ago was based on a book published in 2017?

Truthfully, it's pretty clear that almost all human cultures (including hwite people) practiced human sacrifice at one point or another. It's just more likely that the practice disappeared over the course of time in the ancient Old World, rather than by a command from God all at once.

My point, since you so clearly missed it, is that the Torah to which Jews adhere tells them that human sacrifice -- specifically human sacrifice to Moloch, as portrayed in that show -- is wrong and not to do it. Significantly, it is among the world's oldest extant texts making that particular claim.

With regard to hwite people, they too participated in child sacrifice, including cannibalism -- something also clearly forbidden by Judaism: https://web.archive.org/web/20060907102 ... 15.html#20

How many times were the jews reprimanded by their god for giving their children to ba'al/mlk/whomever was eating children? How many?

Even up until the life and times of jesus there were jews who carried the tabernacle of muloch in their pocket. They also took up the star of their god remphan.

That's not directly related to the blood drinking occult practices of some jews, or people who call themselves jews if you prefer. For these people we are referring to, they sacrificed the first born of their own. They were not kidnapping and sacrificing the children of others to make blood matzo. No, the sect that does that, is different.

Judaism has not been without its mystery cults, and wide and varied have they been. You have people like Zevi and his redemption through sin movement in 1666, you have all kids of stuff.

Again, proving jewish ritual murder becomes difficult when people call those who levied the charges liars. It was a proven fact for hundreds of years. Now, it was just a bunch of intolerant bigots picking on helpless jews.

If my people were intolerant bigots and liars, why live with them? Why not go, anywhere else? I mean, literally anywhere else?

Jews chose to live amongst my people, and some jews chose to murder children in occult ceremony. Now, theybwere framed by intolerant bigot Christian pedophiles....because that's the history now, it never happened you see, my people just, collectively lied to persecute the poor innocent jews.

Again, 109 expulsions, countless pogroms and a need for special legislation to protect jews. Name me another people that has happened to. At some point, one would think, a look in the mirror would be warranted, but no, apparently the problem is, everybody else...

Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:10 pm How many times were the jews reprimanded by their god for giving their children to ba'al/mlk/whomever was eating children? How many?

A bunch. It's sort of the story of the Old Testament, although I don't know whether Ba'al demanded human sacrifice. I mean, this is fiction, yes? We're not treating this like it's actual history, are we?

Even up until the life and times of jesus there were jews who carried the tabernacle of muloch in their pocket. They also took up the star of their god remphan.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Judaism has not been without its mystery cults, and wide and varied have they been. You have people like Zevi and his redemption through sin movement in 1666, you have all kids of stuff.

Nor has Christianity. Avars, Cathars, Albegensians, etc.

Again, proving jewish ritual murder becomes difficult when people call those who levied the charges liars. It was a proven fact for hundreds of years.

So was the sun revolving around the earth. So was the existence of phlogiston. You can't really be this dense.

Now, it was just a bunch of intolerant bigots picking on helpless jews.

The central act on which the Christian faith is based is Jesus giving his life for humankind. Putting aside for a moment the nuanced question of why anyone would curse the people who literally do the active part in this act, the Bible is clear that at least some Jews demanded Jesus's execution. The Bible is further very clear that the Jews accept an eternal curse, found in the Gospel According to St. Matthew: "His blood on us and our children."

Does that sound like the basis for fair and equal treatment?

If my people were intolerant bigots and liars, why live with them? Why not go, anywhere else? I mean, literally anywhere else?

Life for Jews was much easier among Arabs and Muslims, it's true. But the inconsistency of European treatment of Jews was part of the problem. Jews did leave places, sometimes voluntarily, and accepted invitations to live elsewhere, which were often much better, at least in the short term.

What's interesting to me is that the Arab-Muslim world had Jews occupying similar positions of influence in their own societies. But they didn't make up bizarre lies about them or kick them out -- at least until the creation of Israel. Perhaps the religion, which is more tolerant of Jews (and Christians) than Christianity is, was the reason?

it never happened you see, my people just, collectively lied to persecute the poor innocent jews.

It wasn't necessary for that many people to have lied. Blood libel accusations weren't very common. So you need only a small number of motivated liars and a lot of gullible people willing to believe virtually anything they're told about Jews because, from their youngest childhood, they're taught that the Jews are cursed.

Again, 109 expulsions, countless pogroms and a need for special legislation to protect jews. Name me another people that has happened to. At some point, one would think, a look in the mirror would be warranted, but no, apparently the problem is, everybody else...

We should have a thread on those and talk about them. Would you believe how many of those were specifically Christian in their impetus?