Jankiel Wiernik

[pilgrimofdark]

There's a small legend around Korczak's deportation. Apparently, he was the first to look defiantly at the Germans as he was walking to the Umschlagplatz, so was a spark of inspiration.

It was not a march to the trains, it was an organized, silent protest against banditry. ... They were the first Jewish ranks that went to their death with dignity, giving the barbarians looks full of contempt. ... When the Germans saw Korczak, they asked: "Who is that man?"

- from Ringelblum's Notes from the Warsaw Ghetto

The only drawback is that he wasn't a nude woman carrying a small child, so couldn't really serve the Warsaw Ghetto as a vision of Asherah like anonymous nude women did at other camps, including Treblinka.

Final story: he with his orphanage children go to Treblinka and are never seen again.

The Warsaw writers saw him go to the train station in Warsaw, not Treblinka. From there, the assumption is he went to Treblinka, based on... what, exactly?

At least it's said Korczak was deported on a day when the Germans were in the ghetto, unlike Wiernik

[pilgrimofdark]

Genia Marciniakówna provides some fascinating info on the failure of the Treblinka Revolt:

On August 3, 1943, the Jews held in the camp revolted. At 4:00 PM, while in the kitchen, I heard gunfire coming from the main camp area. The sporadic shooting grew louder. Confusion broke out in the camp. I ran out of the barracks with the Ukrainians and rushed for the exit, but the guards blocked my path. Before my eyes, some Jews still managed to escape. The Germans and the guards brutally shot all the Jews in the camp at the time. Those who were not fatally wounded were finished off by the guards with an axe blow to the head. Thus, from what I could see, at least five Jews were killed. The revolt was suppressed. Most of the Jews were shot. The rest were taken to the Lublin camp. It should be noted that immediately after the revolt in August, I was dismissed from my job at the camp. The last batch of Jews was sent to Lublin in November. Therefore, I can’t say anything about what happened after I left the camp.

Interrogation protocol of Genia Marciniakówna regarding the construction and operation of the Treblinka death camp. Village of Kosów Lacki, September 21, 1944. Link

The 1944 Soviet investigations are full of interesting details like this, once you strip out the Year in Treblinka book club discussion.

[Stubble]

If I'm reading this right, there was an uprising at Treblinka II, but, being much less successful than the uprising at Sobibor, it wasn't wired about. If I'm understanding correctly, it was put down, and the jews were shuttled to Majdanek and the camp was closed shortly there after.

This is interesting, and I wonder if there are further uncontaminated witness statements to lend this one the support it needs.

You do great work pilgrimofdark.

[pilgrimofdark]

I'm almost done cleaning up an AI-assisted translation of the four 1944 Soviet investigations of Treblinka.

I don't know where to put it yet, but it has lots of inconvenient statements outside of the book club discussions.

I know almost nothing about Camp No. 2. I've only heard that Jews were burned there. I personally saw a large fire in the Jewish camp, flames 7-8 meters high. I saw that fire around the clock for 5-6 months.

I saw wagons bringing in slag and ash every two or three days. Five or seven such wagons arrived. The slag was unloaded from the wagons down a slope. Soon, peasant carts arrived, 20 to 30 a day, to deliver and scatter this slag and ash along the highway. According to stories, this slag in wagons came from Camp No. 2, but I didn't witness it myself.

-Stanisław Krym

This matches the Mil-Geo secret map. The purple lines indicate road paving projects, and any roads not in purple are unpaved. Looks like the Germans paved a road parallel to the railroad from Malkinia through Treblinka and south.

http://maps.mapywig.org/m/German_maps/s ... G4_MLC.jpg

This map is from 1944, so it's about as developed as the road network in this area got.

[Stubble]

Recommendation, start a 'Treblinka Revolt' thread, and for God's sake, when you get the material presentable, publish Sir.

You are cooking at least 3 articles and likely one hell of a book from what I can see, and I commend you!

[pilgrimofdark]

I added the Polish transcription that szlafrok did for the handwritten manuscript, as well as an AI translation to the Wiki.

Year In Treblinka Manuscript

I don't want them to get lost, and people can add transcriptions to other languages or correct the existing transcription/translation.

For the record, the word "chlorine" is in the text 5 times.

I added the scans of the pages as a slideshow, but there's also a link to the archive in the sources section. I'm not sure exactly how to approach projects like this yet. Kind of fun, though

You are cooking at least 3 articles and likely one hell of a book from what I can see, and I commend you!

I submitted a longer article on the differences in the Wiernik Polish/Donat versions a week ago. No response yet so we'll see.

[Stubble]

The 'Forest jew Book Club' article is likely more 'exciting' than textual analysis, which is rather dry. I do hope Inconvenient History does publish the textual analysis article anyhow however man. If they don't, it should be understood, they can't all be zingers.

[Archie]

I added the Polish transcription that szlafrok did for the handwritten manuscript, as well as an AI translation to the Wiki.

Year In Treblinka Manuscript

I don't want them to get lost, and people can add transcriptions to other languages or correct the existing transcription/translation.

For the record, the word "chlorine" is in the text 5 times.

I added the scans of the pages as a slideshow, but there's also a link to the archive in the sources section. I'm not sure exactly how to approach projects like this yet. Kind of fun, though

You are cooking at least 3 articles and likely one hell of a book from what I can see, and I commend you!

I submitted a longer article on the differences in the Wiernik Polish/Donat versions a week ago. No response yet so we'll see.

Thanks, this is the first translation I have seen of the 3 page document. It is quite interesting that he mentions chlorine along with the tank engines in the same account.

Treblinka II - death camp, a square with 13 gas chambers (bathrooms). Gas chamber - 2m high, 7m long, 7m wide. On one side, a normal entrance door. On the opposite side, a trapdoor that opens after people have been gassed. This is also where the corpses are removed. On the roof is a safety hatch, used in the event of chlorine poisoning. After the appropriate amount of chlorine has been added, the hatch closes hermetically.

As many as possible were stuffed into the gas chambers. Then, a hose was connected to the gas chamber's engine from a Soviet tank, and the gas was pumped in. Death lasted 15-20 minutes. Transports arriving in the evening were killed through a safety hatch, where chlorine gas was poured onto the crowded mass of people. The hatch was closed overnight, and death lasted from 10 to 12 hours. It happened quite often that people were pulled out of the chamber alive. Children were the most resistant to chlorine. They were buried alive.

It sure sounds like he is suggesting there were two distinct gassing methods and that they favored chlorine at night. I fail to see the logic in that arrangement (which is probably why it was edited out). I will look forward to your article on the full length version of Rok w Treblince. I believe you have already said it retains the 3,000,000 figure.

I suspect this 3 page document was written after the 1943 newspaper articles since it is longer and has the changed date of the revolt.

We should make a page with a big picture summary to keep track of all these texts. Some sort of naming convention would also be good. Wetzelrad started something like that on an earlier page.

It's time to make a table identifying all the differences between versions.

Here is a very rough first version. I'll make a clean and pretty one that's nice for sharing at some later date, once I have all the info I want.



Related, has anyone come across a full text version or OCR of Rok w Treblince? I am surprisingly having difficulty finding one, and the OCR solutions I've tried are not accurate enough for my liking.

[Archie]

... likely more 'exciting' than textual analysis, which is rather dry...

It is dry, but if the changes are significant it can be really damning. The chlorine and the revolt date changing are both pretty bad. These will be a good arguments for us, and the other side will have trouble defending this. While the details will bore people, if you give them the highlights, the underlying idea, that the stories have changed a lot, is pretty intuitive.

[pilgrimofdark]

The 'Forest jew Book Club' article is likely more 'exciting' than textual analysis, which is rather dry. I do hope Inconvenient History does publish the textual analysis article anyhow however man. If they don't, it should be understood, they can't all be zingers.

That one would be much more difficult but getting the Soviet investigations all into English was a big step in that direction.

... likely more 'exciting' than textual analysis, which is rather dry...

It is dry, but if the changes are significant it can be really damning. The chlorine and the revolt date changing are both pretty bad. These will be a good arguments for us, and the other side will have trouble defending this. While the details will bore people, if you give them the highlights, the underlying idea, that the stories have changed a lot, is pretty intuitive.

Reading Faurisson's textual analysis on the Anne Frank diary versions was one of my first steps into Holocaust revisionism.

My work isn't at his level, but Wiernik original vs. Donat translation is also easier, although it was a little difficult to write. Many of the passages Donat leaves out speak for themselves.

Most of what he omitted is pure schlock. Some are hilariously sentimental.

[Stubble]

Well, you found Henryk Brenner, who was obviously both in the book club and enjoyed the Warsaw Circus. I'm sure he had every piece of atrocity propaganda printed sitting on his coffee table, and he would go buy a Fanta and read away about all the tales of whimsy about what 'was really going on' in the 'death camps'.

I'd consider his testimony the 'most informed' with regard to rumors.

One man an article does not make though, and there is much to sog through.

[pilgrimofdark]

The Arolsen Archives has a copy of the 1945 Wiernik map, and the handwritten key is slightly easier to read than the GFH documents. For some reason, a map attributed to Aleksander Kudlik is also included in the Wiernik documents. Of course, neither map matches the later "Kudlik, Wiernik, Trautsolt" map.

The documents are from the 1945 Polish investigation. The copy of Rok w Treblince is a different printing than the one in other archives.

In his interrogation report, he said "I own one copy of this booklet and I hereby submit it so it may be copied and appended to my testimony." So he definitely takes credit here for the map discussed in the other thread.

Wiernik map

Spoiler

Kudlik map

Spoiler

Link. Maps are on page 12. Wiernik's book starts on page 9.

"Maps of Treblinka" could be its own Wiki eventually, I guess. The ones from DeathCamps.org are woefully incomplete.

[Archie]

Reading Faurisson's textual analysis on the Anne Frank diary versions was one of my first steps into Holocaust revisionism.

My work isn't at his level, but Wiernik original vs. Donat translation is also easier, although it was a little difficult to write. Many of the passages Donat leaves out speak for themselves.

Most of what he omitted is pure schlock. Some are hilariously sentimental.

In case you are interested,
https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=109

There are online scans of the Anne Frank materials, though with some region restrictions due to copyright.

The orthodox scholarship on this was published as the Critical Edition in the late 80s. It's a big thick book. And then they came out with a Revised Critical Edition. The Clemens & Blair book on AF is mostly based on the Revised edition.

[pilgrimofdark]

I'm considering putting the full text transcription of the Polish Rok w Treblince on the Wiki.

There are 3 scans of the original online in various archives, plus a different copy transcribed as part of the 1945 Polish Main Commission investigation.

So I don't think it's under copyright. Even if it was, the fact it was included in a legal/government proceeding means it's part of a public court record even under Polish laws, so fair game to reproduce/transcribe.

Thoughts?

Then anyone can grab the full text and translate at will.

The Donat translation is likely still under copyright, but reproduced in its entirety here.

[Stubble]

I'm not a lawyer.

That said, if it is critiqued it falls under fair use, don't it?

So far as straight ripping it and posting it, somebody would need to talk to an attorney me thinks. That could get messy.

Probably best to link to a downloadable version. Same effect, but, without any type of liability. That's what I would do, after thinking about this for a bit.