The CODOH Revisionist Forum

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 6:48 pm What would be the point? The guy is a boorish piece of trash.

borjastick wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 3:06 pm The majority of the direct evidence of mass murders comes from Nazi sources. There is no direct evidence of mass resettlement. There are some Nazi plans for resettlement and suggestions in documents Jews were being resettled, but there is nothing to show large scale resettlement of millions of Jews. Revisionists suggestions that mass murders did not happen are contrary to the Nazis leaving evidence that did happen, and not leaving evidence of resettlement. - Nessie

Here we go with the fake news and untruths by Mrs Nessie and her children.

There were never millions matey that's simply a made up number. Secondly mass resettlement would be something planned for and done in small episodes of large numbers with a structured programme. That was never part of the plan. The plan was to tell the jews they were on thin ice, then tell them they should leave (many did) then expel as many as possible and then to put the few hundred thousand left over to work on concentration/work camps or send them piecemeal into the hinterland during a war. You really should be a lot better than to continually repeat the shit argument that no evidence of mass resettlement has been provided thus they all died in the non existent gas chambers and were magicked away into the air by cremating ten thousand an hour for fifteen days. Really Mrs Nessie you are better than this. Just stop this shit please or fuck off and die, either will do for me. Must be really taxing on you every morning to wake up and think 'how can I be a bigger cunt today than I was yesterday'.

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 3:37 pm What a wholly unpleasant person you are.

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 9:08 pm Amazing you don’t even include the charge of deicide, not even as an aside.

Seriously, fuck off and die. My patience for Nazi bullshit is very low.

ETA: Lest it be thought I’m just being hyperbolic in my language, I genuinely believe that the world is better without people like you in it. I would celebrate your death.

Archie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 7:37 pm

borjastick wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 3:06 pm The majority of the direct evidence of mass murders comes from Nazi sources. There is no direct evidence of mass resettlement. There are some Nazi plans for resettlement and suggestions in documents Jews were being resettled, but there is nothing to show large scale resettlement of millions of Jews. Revisionists suggestions that mass murders did not happen are contrary to the Nazis leaving evidence that did happen, and not leaving evidence of resettlement. - Nessie

Here we go with the fake news and untruths by Mrs Nessie and her children.

There were never millions matey that's simply a made up number. Secondly mass resettlement would be something planned for and done in small episodes of large numbers with a structured programme. That was never part of the plan. The plan was to tell the jews they were on thin ice, then tell them they should leave (many did) then expel as many as possible and then to put the few hundred thousand left over to work on concentration/work camps or send them piecemeal into the hinterland during a war. You really should be a lot better than to continually repeat the shit argument that no evidence of mass resettlement has been provided thus they all died in the non existent gas chambers and were magicked away into the air by cremating ten thousand an hour for fifteen days. Really Mrs Nessie you are better than this. Just stop this shit please or fuck off and die, either will do for me. Must be really taxing on you every morning to wake up and think 'how can I be a bigger cunt today than I was yesterday'.

Ok, let’s dial back the abuse of Nessie. Especially stuff like “fuck off and die.”

Btw, on the user profile, there is an option to add the user as a “foe.” When this is done, the user’s posts are no longer displayed.

Archie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 7:43 pm

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 3:37 pm What a wholly unpleasant person you are.

Says the guy that recently posted very nearly the same thing. Lol.

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 9:08 pm Amazing you don’t even include the charge of deicide, not even as an aside.

Seriously, fuck off and die. My patience for Nazi bullshit is very low.

ETA: Lest it be thought I’m just being hyperbolic in my language, I genuinely believe that the world is better without people like you in it. I would celebrate your death.

Holocaust Research & Discussion
A revisionist safe space

Holocaust Debate
For more adversarial interactions

Nessie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:47 pm I would like to take this opportunity to say the presently, CODOH is the best run and best to be on Holocaust forum I have been on, and that includes sceptic, non-Holocaust specific forums. I would hope the recent outburst from one member does not become the norm and maybe if they are so unhappy, they can go to the safe space.

Stubble wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:26 pm My how we have strayed from chronology.

Ok, so, after the holocaust of bullets commenced, at some point, mass gassings at the concentration camps started, correct?

8.) Interrogation of Fritz Höfer (Sonderkommando 4a) of 27 August 1959:
One day I was instructed to drive my truck outside the town. I was accompanied by a Ukrainian. It must have been about 10 o’clock. On the way there we overtook Jews carrying luggage marching on foot in the same direction that we were travelling. There were whole families. The further we got out of town the denser the columns became. Piles of clothing lay in a large open field. These piles of clothing were my destination. The Ukrainian showed me how to get in there. After we had stopped in the area near the piles of clothes the truck was immediately loaded up with clothing. This was carried out by Ukrainians. I watched what happened when the Jews - men, women and children — arrived. The Ukrainians led them past a number of different places where one after the other they had to remove their luggage, then their coats, shoes and overgarments and also underwear. They also had to leave their valuables in a designated place. There was a special pile for each article of clothing. It all happened very quickly and anyone who hesitated was kicked or pushed by the Ukrainians to keep them moving. I don't think it was even a minute from the time each Jew took off his coat before he was standing there completely naked. No distinction was made between men, women and children. One would have thought that the Jews that came later would have had a chance to turn back when they saw the others in front of them having to undress. It still surprises me today that this did not happen.Once undressed, the Jews were led into a ravine which was about 150 metres long, 30 metres wide and a good 15 metres deep. Two or three narrow entrances led to this ravine through which the Jews were channelled. When they reached the bottom of the ravine they were seized by members of the Schutzpolizei and made to lie down on top of Jews who had already been shot. This all happened very quickly. The corpses were literally in layers. A police marksman came along and shot each Jew in the neck with a sub-machine-gun at the spot where he was lying. When the Jews reached the ravine they were so shocked by the horrifying scene that they completely lost their will. Itmay even have been that the Jews themselves lay down in rows to wait to be shot.There were only two marksmen carrying out the executions. One of them was working at one end of the ravine, the other at the other end.I saw these marksmen stand on the layers of corpses and shoot one after the other.The moment one Jew had been killed, the marksman would walk across the bodies of the executed Jews to the next Jew, who had meanwhile lain down, and shoot him. It went on in this way uninterruptedly, with no distinction being made between men, women and children. The children were kept with their mothers and shot with them.I only saw this scene briefly. When I got to the bottom of the ravine I was so shocked by the terrible sight that I could not bear to look for long. In the hollow I saw that there were already three rows of bodies lined up over a distance of about sixty metres. How many layers of bodies there were on top of each other I could not see. I was so astonished and dazed by the sight of the twitching blood-smeared bodies that I could not properly register the details. In addition to the two marksmen there was a ‘packer’ at either entrance to the ravine. These 'packers' were Schutzpolizisten, whose job it was to lay thevictim on top of the other corpses so that all the marksman had to do as he passed was fire a shot.When the victims came along the paths to the ravine and at the last moment saw the terrible scene they cried out in terror. But at the very next moment they were already being knocked over by the 'packers' and made to lie down with the others. The next group of people could not see this terrible scene because it took place round a corner.Most people put up a fight when they had to undress and there was a lot of screaming and shouting. The Ukrainians did not take any notice. They just drove them down as quickly as possible into the ravine through the entrances.From the undressing area you could not make out the ravine, which was about 150 metres away from the first pile of clothes. A biting wind was blowing; it was very cold. The shots from the ravine could not be heard at the undressing area. This is why I think the Jews did not realize in time what lay ahead of them. I still wonder today why the Jews did not try and do something about it. Masses kept on coming from the city to this place, which they apparently entered unsuspectingly, still under the impression that they were being resettled."

bombsaway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:39 pm

Stubble wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:26 pm My how we have strayed from chronology.

Ok, so, after the holocaust of bullets commenced, at some point, mass gassings at the concentration camps started, correct?

I mean that's the simple version, but you can take time to understand all the specifics and the process of how and why that developed. Let me know if you want to move onto this . . . re Holocaust of Bullets I got busy and wasn't able to devote time to our discussion here. Your concluding thoughts are, the Einsatgruppen and SS police reports are at least in part fabricated, the witnesses are lying. For example the continued detail of Jews surrendering to their fate without much fight is implausible and evidence of witnesses lying, in this case falsely confessing to crimes.

8.) Interrogation of Fritz Höfer (Sonderkommando 4a) of 27 August 1959:
One day I was instructed to drive my truck outside the town. I was accompanied by a Ukrainian. It must have been about 10 o’clock. On the way there we overtook Jews carrying luggage marching on foot in the same direction that we were travelling. There were whole families. The further we got out of town the denser the columns became. Piles of clothing lay in a large open field. These piles of clothing were my destination. The Ukrainian showed me how to get in there. After we had stopped in the area near the piles of clothes the truck was immediately loaded up with clothing. This was carried out by Ukrainians. I watched what happened when the Jews - men, women and children — arrived. The Ukrainians led them past a number of different places where one after the other they had to remove their luggage, then their coats, shoes and overgarments and also underwear. They also had to leave their valuables in a designated place. There was a special pile for each article of clothing. It all happened very quickly and anyone who hesitated was kicked or pushed by the Ukrainians to keep them moving. I don't think it was even a minute from the time each Jew took off his coat before he was standing there completely naked. No distinction was made between men, women and children. One would have thought that the Jews that came later would have had a chance to turn back when they saw the others in front of them having to undress. It still surprises me today that this did not happen.Once undressed, the Jews were led into a ravine which was about 150 metres long, 30 metres wide and a good 15 metres deep. Two or three narrow entrances led to this ravine through which the Jews were channelled. When they reached the bottom of the ravine they were seized by members of the Schutzpolizei and made to lie down on top of Jews who had already been shot. This all happened very quickly. The corpses were literally in layers. A police marksman came along and shot each Jew in the neck with a sub-machine-gun at the spot where he was lying. When the Jews reached the ravine they were so shocked by the horrifying scene that they completely lost their will. Itmay even have been that the Jews themselves lay down in rows to wait to be shot.There were only two marksmen carrying out the executions. One of them was working at one end of the ravine, the other at the other end.I saw these marksmen stand on the layers of corpses and shoot one after the other.The moment one Jew had been killed, the marksman would walk across the bodies of the executed Jews to the next Jew, who had meanwhile lain down, and shoot him. It went on in this way uninterruptedly, with no distinction being made between men, women and children. The children were kept with their mothers and shot with them.I only saw this scene briefly. When I got to the bottom of the ravine I was so shocked by the terrible sight that I could not bear to look for long. In the hollow I saw that there were already three rows of bodies lined up over a distance of about sixty metres. How many layers of bodies there were on top of each other I could not see. I was so astonished and dazed by the sight of the twitching blood-smeared bodies that I could not properly register the details. In addition to the two marksmen there was a ‘packer’ at either entrance to the ravine. These 'packers' were Schutzpolizisten, whose job it was to lay thevictim on top of the other corpses so that all the marksman had to do as he passed was fire a shot.When the victims came along the paths to the ravine and at the last moment saw the terrible scene they cried out in terror. But at the very next moment they were already being knocked over by the 'packers' and made to lie down with the others. The next group of people could not see this terrible scene because it took place round a corner.Most people put up a fight when they had to undress and there was a lot of screaming and shouting. The Ukrainians did not take any notice. They just drove them down as quickly as possible into the ravine through the entrances.From the undressing area you could not make out the ravine, which was about 150 metres away from the first pile of clothes. A biting wind was blowing; it was very cold. The shots from the ravine could not be heard at the undressing area. This is why I think the Jews did not realize in time what lay ahead of them. I still wonder today why the Jews did not try and do something about it. Masses kept on coming from the city to this place, which they apparently entered unsuspectingly, still under the impression that they were being resettled."

The fact that at Babi Yar the cremains weren't found in a proper excavation, to you is evidence that there are no cremains there or they were moved elsewhere. My position here is that there were no real excavations conducted. If they had tried and failed to find cremains I might agree with you, but right now in my opinion is your position here is speculative.

If I'm strawmanning you, plz let me know, or if you want to move on we can do that.

Stubble wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:48 pm
Thank you for your patience here and of course I am willing to explore exposition on these various facets of the events collectively known as 'the holocaust' here in this thread with you sir.

By the autumn of 1941, despite high hopes, as no sign emerged of the promised removal of the Jews[231], and as sanitary conditions in the ghettos worsened, leading officials in the GG returned to the old theme of destroying them. At a conference in Warsaw from October 14-16, 1941, the governor of the Warsaw district, Ludwig Fischer, demanded that the ghetto be sealed completely to prevent the spread of typhus and declared that “this war is about a confrontation with Jewry in its totality... I believe that threat is answered when we annihilate the breeding ground of Jewry, from which the entire World Jewry renews itself.”[232] At another conference, this time of health officials, held at the spa resort town of Bad Krynica, a medical expert opined that the control of typhus was impossible when “without doubt the Jewish population simply broke out of the ghettos in which there was nothing to eat”, recommending that there be an increased food supply for the ghettos to solve the problem. Dr. Jost Walbaum, head of the public health department of the GG administration, replied:

You are completely right. Naturally it would be the best and simplest to give the people sufficient provisioning possibilities, but that cannot be done. That is connected to the food situation and the war situation in general. Thus shooting will be employed when one comes across a Jew outside the ghetto without permission. One must, I can say it quite openly in this circle, be clear about it. There are only two ways. We sentence the Jews in the ghetto to death by hunger or we shoot them. Even if the end result is the same, the latter is more intimidating. We cannot do otherwise, even if we want to. We have one and only one responsibility, that the German people are not infected and endangered by these parasites. For that any means must be right.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:52 pm

Stubble wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:48 pm
Thank you for your patience here and of course I am willing to explore exposition on these various facets of the events collectively known as 'the holocaust' here in this thread with you sir.

So simultaneous to all these happenings in Russia we also see growing discontent with the ghettoized Jews of Poland primarily (this was the biggest ghettoized population by far)

there are a lot of documents and German officials making homicidal statements but you can look something like this

By the autumn of 1941, despite high hopes, as no sign emerged of the promised removal of the Jews[231], and as sanitary conditions in the ghettos worsened, leading officials in the GG returned to the old theme of destroying them. At a conference in Warsaw from October 14-16, 1941, the governor of the Warsaw district, Ludwig Fischer, demanded that the ghetto be sealed completely to prevent the spread of typhus and declared that “this war is about a confrontation with Jewry in its totality... I believe that threat is answered when we annihilate the breeding ground of Jewry, from which the entire World Jewry renews itself.”[232] At another conference, this time of health officials, held at the spa resort town of Bad Krynica, a medical expert opined that the control of typhus was impossible when “without doubt the Jewish population simply broke out of the ghettos in which there was nothing to eat”, recommending that there be an increased food supply for the ghettos to solve the problem. Dr. Jost Walbaum, head of the public health department of the GG administration, replied:

You are completely right. Naturally it would be the best and simplest to give the people sufficient provisioning possibilities, but that cannot be done. That is connected to the food situation and the war situation in general. Thus shooting will be employed when one comes across a Jew outside the ghetto without permission. One must, I can say it quite openly in this circle, be clear about it. There are only two ways. We sentence the Jews in the ghetto to death by hunger or we shoot them. Even if the end result is the same, the latter is more intimidating. We cannot do otherwise, even if we want to. We have one and only one responsibility, that the German people are not infected and endangered by these parasites. For that any means must be right.

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... _2483.html

Basically a decision is made to mass deport the Jews with the reasons given as connected to the war situation, the food situation, the disease Jews might spread which could infect Poles and Germans, the security risk Jews posed. The revisionist explanation, that they were similarly housed in Russia is problematic based on the reasonable (I think) view that these problems would exist in Russia as well, and probably be magnified.

We can move on from this (to discussion of the killing method), but I wonder if you have any thoughts first, or if there are points for further inquiry.