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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 3:55 pm
by Nessie
HansHill wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 2:00 pm
This is such a non-sequitur.
Is Night of the Long Knives also evidence of the Holocaust? Surely it must be.
It is evidence that the Nazis would use murder to achieve their objectives.
Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 3:57 pm
by Nessie
Archie wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 3:34 pm
Trying to analogize Holocaust historiography to a routine murder investigation is badly flawed.
Say a woman is found dead in her house with a bullet wound. Means, motive, and opportunity are a good guide here because those considerations tell you the most probable suspects, e.g., "Hmm, looks like the husband did it." But with a normal murder,
we already know that the crime has occurred. We just need to know who-done-it. And motive etc are indeed excellent guides
in the situation where we know a murder has occurred.
In the context of the Holocaust debate, the thing being contested is whether these six million murders have been committed to begin with. Motive (i.e., merely pointing out that Hitler disliked Jews) doesn't really get us anywhere. If we take as given that six million Jews were murdered during WWII, then I agree that Hitler would be the most likely culprit. But this is begging the question of whether six million murders have occurred.
The mass murders at the death camps are very well evidenced. S0-called revisionists just pretend that is not the case, to deflect from their inability to evidence what did take place at the death camps and millions of Jews still alive in 1944.
Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 3:58 pm
by HansHill
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 3:55 pm
HansHill wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 2:00 pm
This is such a non-sequitur.
Is Night of the Long Knives also evidence of the Holocaust? Surely it must be.
It is evidence that the Nazis would use murder to achieve their objectives.
I am going to channel my Inner-Keen here for a moment:
Nessie: Is the Night Of The Long Knives evidence for the Holocaust? Yes - or - No!
Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 4:26 pm
by Nessie
HansHill wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 3:58 pm
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 3:55 pm
HansHill wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 2:00 pm
This is such a non-sequitur.
Is Night of the Long Knives also evidence of the Holocaust? Surely it must be.
It is evidence that the Nazis would use murder to achieve their objectives.
I am going to channel my Inner-Keen here for a moment:
Nessie: Is the Night Of The Long Knives evidence for the Holocaust? Yes - or - No!
No, since it was the murder of political opponents, not Jews. It is evidence of opportunity, in that it proves the Nazis were prepared to kill people to achieve their aims. With Hitler in power, the Nazis had the opportunity to use killings as part of achieving policy.
Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 7:55 pm
by HansHill
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 4:26 pm
HansHill wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 3:58 pm
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 3:55 pm
It is evidence that the Nazis would use murder to achieve their objectives.
I am going to channel my Inner-Keen here for a moment:
Nessie: Is the Night Of The Long Knives evidence for the Holocaust? Yes - or - No!
No, since it was the murder of political opponents, not Jews. It is evidence of opportunity, in that it proves the Nazis were prepared to kill people to achieve their aims. With Hitler in power, the Nazis had the opportunity to use killings as part of achieving policy.
Got it.
And this applies also to the T4 aktion, as those patients were predominantly non-Jewish, yes?
Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 11:08 pm
by Callafangers
Just on the topic of ConfusedJew's pilpul activities, I feel this thread needs to be linked for posterity (recommend reading pages 1-3):
'A request to Confused Jew'
https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=360
Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 8:07 am
by Nessie
HansHill wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 7:55 pm
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 4:26 pm
HansHill wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 3:58 pm
I am going to channel my Inner-Keen here for a moment:
Nessie: Is the Night Of The Long Knives evidence for the Holocaust? Yes - or - No!
No, since it was the murder of political opponents, not Jews. It is evidence of opportunity, in that it proves the Nazis were prepared to kill people to achieve their aims. With Hitler in power, the Nazis had the opportunity to use killings as part of achieving policy.
Got it.
And this applies also to the T4 aktion, as those patients were predominantly non-Jewish, yes?
Yes, Night of the Long Knives, Actions T4 and 14f13 were the murders of others and they do not evidence that the Nazis also murdered Jews. They do evidence that the Nazis would use murder as policy, but you will ignore that!
Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:36 pm
by HansHill
Nessie wrote: ↑Sat May 24, 2025 8:07 am
HansHill wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 7:55 pm
Nessie wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 4:26 pm
No, since it was the murder of political opponents, not Jews. It is evidence of opportunity, in that it proves the Nazis were prepared to kill people to achieve their aims. With Hitler in power, the Nazis had the opportunity to use killings as part of achieving policy.
Got it.
And this applies also to the T4 aktion, as those patients were predominantly non-Jewish, yes?
Yes, Night of the Long Knives, Actions T4 and 14f13 were the murders of others and they do not evidence that the Nazis also murdered Jews. They do evidence that the Nazis would use murder as policy, but you will ignore that!
Great. So when Callafangers asked for evidence of the Holocaust, you put forth Aktion T4 despite knowing this is not evidence of the Holocaust.
Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 2:16 pm
by Nessie
HansHill wrote: ↑Sat May 24, 2025 1:36 pm
Nessie wrote: ↑Sat May 24, 2025 8:07 am
HansHill wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 7:55 pm
Got it.
And this applies also to the T4 aktion, as those patients were predominantly non-Jewish, yes?
Yes, Night of the Long Knives, Actions T4 and 14f13 were the murders of others and they do not evidence that the Nazis also murdered Jews. They do evidence that the Nazis would use murder as policy, but you will ignore that!
Great. So when Callafangers asked for evidence of the Holocaust, you put forth Aktion T4 despite knowing this is not evidence of the Holocaust.
You are ignoring that T4 evidences the Nazis use of murder as policy, and that the T4 staff ended up working on AR, so they are linked by circumstances. On its own, T4 is not evidence of the mass murder of Jews, it is evidence of the mass murder of the disabled.
You really struggle with evidencing. It is more complicated than you can cope with.
Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 2:22 pm
by HansHill
Nessie wrote: ↑Sat May 24, 2025 2:16 pm
You really struggle with evidencing. It is more complicated than you can cope with.
Yes, that's one way to put it.