Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2026 6:03 pm
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When I tried to address this before, both bombsaway and Nessie implied that I was strawmanning the orthodoxy. I'm not. The convention among most orthodox historians is indeed that ths nazis were somehow able to pull off the magic disappearing mass grave trick, and, that they made the operation happen with no 1) plan 2) budget 3) timetable via telepathy.
The mass graves have not disappeared. Instead, their form was changed. Instead of neatly delineated pits containing piles of countable corpses, they left often irregular pits filled with ash, cremains and larger bits of bone. Details of what they left are in the reports in this thread, that Archie refused to left me update, because he also wants to pretend that there is a lack of evidence of the mass graves.
viewtopic.php?t=489
In the absence of any order to start an extermination program, testimony that there was once an order to end it is used as evidence of it having existed. It is important to note that no copies have ever been produced, even the one you would think the 'witness' would have kept for himself.
There is a Hitler signed document ordering the start of the euthanasia programme. There are multiple documents about the start of the mass shootings and the Einsatzgruppen. Then there are documents about the setting up of AR. They all pertain to the Final Solution, which has a smoking gun with the Wannsee Minutes.
Hans Frank at Nuremberg talks about having asked Adolf Hitler if there were executions going on at the Bug River Camps. Hitler bluntly responded, yes, of partisans.
Himmler wrote in 1941 that Jews were to be exterminated as partisans.
https://holocausthistory.site/1941-12-1 ... partisans/
In my opinion, that is the extent of the genocide of the jews at the Bug River Camps. The Germans in Aktion Reinhardt and under the Einsatzgruppe also seem to have handled that operation with 'kid gloves'. They missed so damn many people they should have swept up an executed, outright, given their charter.
You should rely on evidence, rather than your biased, distorted opinion.
Look at Sobibor. They left a Soviet POW alive, a POW who was also involved with the partisan resistance. The exact demographic which the operations were targeting. At Treblinka II, they left a known communist propagandist with prewar recorded involvement in subversion and publishing, the one and only humble carpenter Wiernik. This list can go on and on.
They were not left alive, they escaped.
The scale and scope of killing operations in the East, during the execution of a war, have been greatly exaggerated. If things had really been 'as claimed' there would be a lot more evidence, and, the people who would have known would have known, they would not have been gobsmacked by Hoess's testimony after he had been made pliant in the London Cage...
If we are generous and we assume that every hole at these sites is a 'huge mass grave', there is room to accommodate roughly 10% of the claimed dead. Is that tragic? Of course, war is a protracted tragedy for all involved. It isn't the bill of goods we have been sold however.
When proper investigations of these sites are eventually carried out, I won't be surprised to learn that the dead were dispatched with a hot lead injection, and not via electric floors in hermetically sealed chlorine homicidal gas chambers or with exotic war gasses that allowed the condemned to walk into the mass graves before dying.
Can you say what a "proper" investigation would look like?
Can you explain why all the so-called revisionist investigations have failed to agree on what the AR camps were used for?