The CODOH Revisionist Forum

Callafangers wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2026 8:10 pm Nonetheless, even regarding the documents shared in my last post, I consider that an interpretation of forgery may be unnecessary, e.g. I suggest:

4) Rauff was a casual and simply spoke out of ignorance; also, there were some CO experiments for delousing purposes around this time.
5) Turner refers to a "delousing van" explicitly and mentions he had to obtain it on his own (with local SD help; not provisioned automatically) -- this in any case (even if for homicide, which isn't apparent since a literal delousing interpretation remains valid) reflects his own individual pursuit, not any larger German policy.
9) Numerous problems with this document, from medical, engineering, and security logic to inconsistent and abnormal phrasing and a lack of corroboration (e.g. radio messages). Possible forgery, and not even clearly referring to Jews (mentions "detainees" / Häftlinge).
10) The Just memo; absurd logistics and timeline if interpreted as homicidal, especially when compared with Becker letter and timeline (Becker's alleged travels are completely incoherent).

I feel you have to go through these slowly.

Well lookihg at #4 I'd say off the bat Rauff is also implicated in #9 - the letter is to him , and makes clear they're about homicidal vans.

"The application of the gas is not undertaken correctly. In order to come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. "

I think it's wild you refer to this as a "possibly forgery" (within your viewpoint that were no state sponsored gassings). I mean I suppose it is possible that the writer of this letter was having schizophrenic break from reality and just imagined that they were using gas vans, or was playing a prank, but I don't think hypotheses like that can be taken seriously. Any other ones?

bombsaway wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2026 2:47 pm https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... to_16.html

On 9 November 1942, the leader of 10th company of SS-Polizeiregiment 15, Helmut Saur, reported that the men were employed for "guarding at the assembly point, securing the individual transports to the execution site, which was about 4 km outside Pinsk". He goes on that "10,000 people were executed. On 30 October, the ghetto was searched through for second time, on 31 October for the third time and on 1 November for the fourth time. A total of about 15,000 Jews were brought to the assembly point. Sick Jews and some children left in the houses were immediately executed in the ghetto in the courtyard. In the ghetto, about 1,200 Jews were executed." (VEJ 8, document 219).

It is absolutely trivial to find documents that revisionists will find suspicious here. I could go on for hours, days. It seems like willful self-ignorance at this point.

It seems you are very focused on shootings which will skew things greatly. On Einsatzgruppen, I would not believe those numbers even if you had a million documents. If you are really serious about this line of argument I would recommend separating "documents" among several distinct categories. I already explained this in my first reply but I will repeat myself since you didn't address anything.

Here are some suggested categories
1) Stationary gas chambers (maybe a subgroup for euthanasia)
2) Gas vans
3) Ausrottung/vernichtung sort of documents
4) Einsatzgruppen

Many (not all) purportedly incriminating documents can be resolved interpretationally. For instance, I don't need to argue that the document below was forged to deal with it. They just pulled it out of context. This is one of very few Nuremberg "gassing" documents.



Do you claim to have dozens of compelling gas van documents? If so why do people always cite the same two over and over? You claimed only "5 or 6" in the OP. Taking that as given for sake of argument, that doesn't to me like an impossible degree of forgery.

If it can be shown that the number of truly unexplainable documents (perhaps there would need to categories for this as well, i.e., for something purely numerical vs more substantial difficulties) is much higher than I am assuming then I would acknowledge that revisionists would need to develop a more comprehensive explanations for potential large scale forgery.

One more point on Einsatzgruppen, you seem to take "incriminating" to mean any killing of Jews but I don't think that's the relevant standard in the Holocaust debate since shooting deaths are (generally) admitted to an extent, with most revisionists arguing primarily that the numbers are wildly inflated. It seems like you are presenting a bit of a false dichotomy of "no shootings" and the six million.

I'd say what Israel is doing in Gaza is genocidal and their larger policy is genocidal. There is an aim at reducing or damaging the population beyond any reasonable military objective.

Of course this is a spectrum and we could say all war has a genocidal aspect. Israeli acts are beyond a certain threshold of brutality where I would say yes it is, but in truth the Nazis make the Israelis look like the doviest of doves.

Precise numbers don't matter much, because the documents speak of a systematic campaign of going to into cities and villages where ghettoized Jews are, saying we're going to resettle you, and then killing virtually everyone. This didn't happen once but across hundreds of localities. This alone elevates the Holocaust above any other act in recent history on the genocide scale, (aside from other things the Nazis did)

If you're agreed that the SS police shootings would constitute the most extreme genocidal act in recent history, then I will happily move on. I just think you deny this too, because at your heart you are a cartoon conspiracist

xxxx

…Precise numbers don't matter much…

Well then you won't mind me telling you that 6m dead jews in the holocaust is a lie then.

But of course all holocaust promoters love the 6m figure and defend the 'truth' of it until the cows come home and when they get challenged on the lunacy of 6m they run away and wet the bed for a good twelve hours and pretend to be soooo offended.

Precise numbers and their perceived benefits are very important to the holocaust promoters especially as the craziness of israel grows and grows and all they can hide behind is of course you guessed it ladies and gentlemen, the holocaust. Or to be recise their holocaust.

The reality of jewish deaths in the holohoax is that about 250k died. Not pretty, not nice and generally speaking not acceptable but 6m it most certainly was not. I've been at this game a long long time and am still looking for proof of gas chambers, mass murder and 6m deaded jews...

bombsaway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2026 4:13 am…Precise numbers don't matter much…

Yes the “numbers” definitely DO “matter”, and that is because civilian, non-combatants were targeted in WW2 way more than in any previous conflict in known history.
During WW1 the civilian casualties represented about 16% of the death total.
In WW2 it was about 63%!
So even if we exclude the holyH inflated figures, it is still much more civilians who were deliberately targeted during WW2, many by the Allies with their carpet-bombings of civilian cities, the atom-bombing of Japan, their democidal starvation blockade of Europe, etc.
You should maybe seriously take this info on as your user-name makes light of this wicked and immoral allied mass-murder by aerial bombing.
SUMMARY: the ‘numbers’ do matter because it was not just jewish people who were targeted and killed. So the racist jewish narrative claiming a ‘special-suffering’ is refuted if / (when) their mythological ‘six million’ number is refuted.
That you claim the “precise numbers don't matter much” demonstrates you are approaching the holyH topic with a quite bizarre, emotional and evidence-ignoring, ahistorical approach.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2026 4:13 am …the documents speak of a systematic campaign of going to into cities and villages where ghettoized Jews are, saying we're going to resettle you, and then killing virtually everyone.

There is no documentary nor archeological evidence supporting that claim. You are just repeating a refuted belief.
There are two possible reasons why you are doing that:
i.) because your approach to this pseudo-historical narrative is as a cultish, die-hard, true-believer, so no supporting argument for it is too absurd for you to faithfully believe and defend;
ii.) you are a hasbara troll who is only here to misinform and sway any undecided CODOH visitors.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2026 4:13 am This (“systematic campaign of …killing everyone” [every joo]) didn't happen once but across hundreds of localities.

There is no evidence of that. You are just repeating your cultish belief just like all other cult-victims do.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2026 4:13 am This alone elevates the Holocaust [holyH] above any other act in recent history on the genocide scale, (aside from other things the Nazis did)…

As above!
Now just using the vague and deliberately imprecise, emotional, trigger-word: ‘holyH’ !!
I.e. “All must kneel and bow their heads. HolyH! Never forget! Poor, poor jooze! Never forget the jooish holyH.”

bombsaway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2026 4:13 amIf you're agreed that the SS police shootings would constitute the most extreme genocidal act in recent history, then I will happily move on.

As predicted on Skeptics and RODOH, the refuted holyco$t by gas is now being replaced by cultish believers with a holyco$t by bullets.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2026 4:13 am…I just think you deny this too, because at your heart you are a cartoon conspiracist.

Ending with ad hominem: the final refuge of a scoundrel with no actual, logical argument.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2026 4:13 am I'd say what Israel is doing in Gaza is genocidal and their larger policy is genocidal. There is an aim at reducing or damaging the population beyond any reasonable military objective.

Of course this is a spectrum and we could say all war has a genocidal aspect. Israeli acts are beyond a certain threshold of brutality where I would say yes it is, but in truth the Nazis make the Israelis look like the doviest of doves.

Precise numbers don't matter much, because the documents speak of a systematic campaign of going to into cities and villages where ghettoized Jews are, saying we're going to resettle you, and then killing virtually everyone. This didn't happen once but across hundreds of localities. This alone elevates the Holocaust above any other act in recent history on the genocide scale, (aside from other things the Nazis did)

If you're agreed that the SS police shootings would constitute the most extreme genocidal act in recent history, then I will happily move on. I just think you deny this too, because at your heart you are a cartoon conspiracist

Seems like you don't want to show the "thousands" of unambiguous gassing documents you implicitly claim exist.

Since it seems you are refusing my suggestion of breaking this into categories, I will go ahead an try to do it for you.

Gas Vans: 5 or 6 (your own estimate from the OP)

Stationary Gas Chambers: The F-G report. Maybe a couple others? If we count the "criminal traces" documents that would be about 40, but those are usually addressed interpretationally.

Final Solution/Extermination: The vast majority of these I think can be handled interpretationally. A few like Posen speech "sound bad" but imo they are usually not specific enough to require an assumption of forgery (from a revisionist perspective). Something like PS-501 on gas vans is specific and explicit enough that if we are arguing for no gas vans then I think, yes, we pretty much have to to argue that PS-501 is a forgery. But for something that's more vaguely exterminationy sounding there's a lot of interpretational wiggle room. Those interpretations might seem strained when looking at one document in isolation and when coming at it with Holocaust priors. But if revisionists are right about everything else, then revisionist interpretations become more plausible across the board.

Einsatzgruppen: If the part of the narrative is partially conceded, then I would say not too many. If one insists on a hardline revisionist position, then it would be a potentially very large number, probably in the hundreds.

I included a fair number of the most commonly cited documents in my Best Case for the Holocaust essay. I make no claim that it it absolutely comprehensive of course but like I said if there are ones that are really major it would probably get attention.
viewtopic.php?p=21373#p21373

Wahrheitssucher wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2026 8:37 am

bombsaway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2026 4:13 am…I just think you deny this too, because at your heart you are a cartoon conspiracist.

Ending with ad hominem: the final refuge of a scoundrel with no actual, logical argument.

I was disappointed in that as well since I was trying to meet bombs half way in the post prior to that. He isn't actually interested in developing the argument in this thread. Which is exactly why he quickly abandoned this thread to begin with. And he brought up the same talking points again only because the Katyn thread was going poorly for him.

Bombs uses the psychological insults and manipulations as a deflection tactic when he's not doing well or doesn't like where things are going. It's one of his tells.