The CODOH Revisionist Forum

HansHill wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:12 pm

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:01 pm
The Soviets asserted Nazi culpability during Nuremberg. So the Soviets could have coerced a German witness into taking the fall for it. Instead of confessions however, a German army officer in command in that exact district during the time said nothing had happened. This would be the equivalent of Hoess denying at Auschwitz https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/07-01-46.asp

Your claims about the Soviets being responsible for 1/4 coercion don't really help you, because there's no evidence of western allies coercing witnesses or fabricating evidence, period. My entire argument is your assertion about conspiracies here are unfounded and without direct evidence, therefore untenable from the perspective of anyone doing standard history. You are doing something else, again closer to fiction, or perhaps religion, where you're working your way backwards from an assumed truth.

No coercion? Nice try:

What do you do when he thinks he’s still in charge? I’ve got to show him that I’m in charge. All I’ve got to do is squeeze the trigger and mark it as auf der Flucht erschossen (shot while trying to escape)…I said “you are in a filthy uniform sir, take it off!” I stripped him naked and threw his clothes out the window. He stood there naked for half an hour, covering his balls with his hands, not looking nearly like the SS officer he was reported to be. Then I said “now listen, you and I are gonna have an understanding right now. I am a Jew—I would love to kill you and mark you down as auf der Flucht erschossen, but I’m gonna do what you would never do. You are gonna sit down and write out exactly what happened—when you entered the camp, who was there, how many died, why they died, everything else about it. Or, you don’t have to do that—you are under no obligation—you can write a note of five lines to your wife, and I will try to deliver it…” (Ferencz gets the desired statement and continues:) I then went to someone outside and said “Major, I got this affidavit, but I’m not gonna use it—it is a coerced confession. I want you to go in, be nice to him, and have him re-write it.” The second one seemed to be okay—I told him to keep the second one and destroy the first one. That was it.

Source: Jardim, Tomaz, The Mauthausen Trial, Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 2012, pp. 82-83.

HansHill wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:07 pm

Nessie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:43 pm
How did the Soviets coerce the French into admitting to assisting in the Holocaust, when it was all a hoax?

What on earth are you asking me? Have you been on the bottle? Are you strawmanning me into a position of Soviets as sole-conspirators? Where on earth did you get this from?

TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:26 pm Americans in France claiming that near the Eiffel Tower there was a gas chamber that left marks on the still-wet concrete is not a conspiracy to fabricate anything.

Nessie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:04 pm

HansHill wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:07 pm

Nessie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:43 pm
How did the Soviets coerce the French into admitting to assisting in the Holocaust, when it was all a hoax?

What on earth are you asking me? Have you been on the bottle? Are you strawmanning me into a position of Soviets as sole-conspirators? Where on earth did you get this from?

Revisionists only want to talk about the Soviets as conspirators, never any other country. You are clearly reluctant to discuss why France would conspire to hoax the Holocaust.

TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:26 pm Americans in France claiming that near the Eiffel Tower there was a gas chamber that left marks on the still-wet concrete is not a conspiracy to fabricate anything.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:31 pm

TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:26 pm Americans in France claiming that near the Eiffel Tower there was a gas chamber that left marks on the still-wet concrete is not a conspiracy to fabricate anything.

Link? Remember this is about demonstrating the existence of a far ranging conspiracy. If you have evidence of that I would like to see

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:30 pm
The Nazis just through their brutal occupation of Poland and the USSR already proved their villainy. Just read about their plans to ethnically cleanse the third most populous country in the world. Look at pictures of Warsaw, which they razed in a purely retaliatory gesture (not part of any military objectives), destroying museums and libraries.

TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:45 pm

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:30 pm
The Nazis just through their brutal occupation of Poland and the USSR already proved their villainy. Just read about their plans to ethnically cleanse the third most populous country in the world. Look at pictures of Warsaw, which they razed in a purely retaliatory gesture (not part of any military objectives), destroying museums and libraries.

The Soviets can do scorched earth and the Germans can't? This had a huge military impact in Barbarossa, why couldn't it have had the same effect in the German retreat? The problem is to look at the German methods and classify them as unique in human history.

As for the supposed villainy in Poland, if you are referring to the number of deaths that Poland claims to have suffered, it is already more than established that the casualties of ethnic Poles were almost negligible compared to other countries, and when the Germans took over the country, almost nothing was actually devastated; only 10% of Warsaw was destroyed in 1939.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 9:29 pm
There was no military purpose for the razing of Warsaw. It was purely retaliatory. There was never any fighting in the city. Examining just Poland, 2 million Polish (non-Jew) civilians died during the war. Approximately 500-600k Germans died due to UK/US bombings, which did have dramatic military affect.

The Germans also quite obviously were the main initiator of the war with the invasion of Poland, which had security guarantees. They also invaded the USSR. This was huge thing at Nuremberg, putting responsibility for the war on Germany. In terms of casualty numbers, the Holocaust is kind of minor. Tens of millions of Europeans died.

TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 9:44 pm

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 9:29 pm
There was no military purpose for the razing of Warsaw. It was purely retaliatory. There was never any fighting in the city. Examining just Poland, 2 million Polish (non-Jew) civilians died during the war. Approximately 500-600k Germans died due to UK/US bombings, which did have dramatic military affect.

The Germans also quite obviously were the main initiator of the war with the invasion of Poland, which had security guarantees. They also invaded the USSR. This was huge thing at Nuremberg, putting responsibility for the war on Germany. In terms of casualty numbers, the Holocaust is kind of minor. Tens of millions of Europeans died.

The Polish post-war census makes it clear that the ethnic Polish population suffered casualties in the hundreds of thousands at most. Their population survived the Second World War very well and there was a demographic boom that would not have been possible if 6 million Poles or 3 million ethnic Poles had actually been killed. These figures obviously come from a propaganda source by the Polish communist government using German casualties from the eastern regions of Germany that they cleared, not to mention that there were millions of ethnic Poles who were Soviet citizens after the war.

Scorched earth does not involve fighting, it is caused before the army reaches any area. Paris would be devastated in retaliation for what?

Well, the Germans were unlucky to invade a country with a guarantee of security when they did not even have one in 1920 against the Soviets. What Poland reaped, it sowed in the interwar period.

What does it matter if the victors determine anything? That doesn't make it real, it's just in books, paper accepts anything.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:22 pm
When I said "western allies" I meant their governments. So you might have individual examples here and there, like above where the "coerced" testimony wasn't even used, but nothing systematic.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 9:53 pm
You can argue this but it's not the view of orthodox historians, much like Holocaust denial isn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War ... _of_Poland

All these things were specified and declared at Nuremberg. Culpability for the war, Generalplan ost, the intentional starvation of Soviets including Leningrad, the kidnapping of children, T4 program. Holocaust not necessary to justify bombings of cities, which were instrumental from a military point of view.

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 9:53 pm
You can argue this but it's not the view of orthodox historians, much like Holocaust denial isn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War ... _of_Poland

TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 10:11 pm

bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 9:53 pm
You can argue this but it's not the view of orthodox historians, much like Holocaust denial isn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War ... _of_Poland

All these things were specified and declared at Nuremberg. Culpability for the war, Generalplan ost, the intentional starvation of Soviets including Leningrad, the kidnapping of children, T4 program. Holocaust not necessary to justify bombings of cities, which were instrumental from a military point of view.

City sieges have existed since Homo sapiens began to wage war, what makes Leningrad unique to you? The Germans were not punished for sieges or bombing cities, in fact if they had done so they would have been executed as well.

Kidnapping orphan children? I don't see the uniqueness here, even Putin is accused of doing this

T4 would be an internal German policy affecting Germans, it is not a war crime.

Yes, Disarmed Enemy Forces was completely legal. Intentional starvation? Hitler gave orders in 1942 that Soviet prisoners should have enough food and Goebbels in his diary demanded that the Army leave enough for the Soviets to survive the winter. Do you think the Germans had the same resources as the US, being the largest food producer in the world? I find Eisenhower's policy even more bizarre than the German confiscation policy.

Subject: Future of the City of Petersburg

II. The Führer is determined to remove the city of Petersburg from the face of the earth. After the defeat of Soviet Russia there can be no interest in the continued existence of this large urban area. Finland has likewise manifested no interest in the maintenance of the city immediately at its new border.

III. It is intended to encircle the city and level it to the ground by means of artillery bombardment using every caliber of weapon, and continual air bombardment.

IV. Requests for surrender resulting from the city’s encirclement will be denied, since the problem of relocating and feeding the population cannot and should not be solved by us. In this war for our very existence, there can be no interest on our part in maintaining even a part of this large urban population. If necessary forcible removal to the eastern Russian area is to be carried out.