Truth about Jewish Expulsions

[ConfusedJew]

You decided “very emotional” on the use of one word “blatantly”. That shows an inability to assess written words correctly. Which is going to be a huge handicap for you if you genuinely want to investigate the possible/probable falsity of the holocaust ‘mass-gassing’ allegation.
Whether the wording is “blatantly false” or “clearly false”, the evidence refuting your false claim still stands. You’ve just ignored it by focusing instead on the messenger rather than the message.

BOTTOM LINE:
This isn’t an “emotionally charged subject” for me. I suggest the fact that you think it is, demonstrates you are psychologically projecting your own state-of-mind: presumably because you are experiencing cognitive dissonance from the evidence provided.
Anyone who thinks they can know from one continent (America) the state of mind of someone living across a vast ocean (in Europe) much BETTER and more accurately than that person themselves can has serious issues. It is a sign of a delusional mind-set.
Which would explain why you can’t accept (or even familiarise yourself with) the considerable evidence of reasons for the 1030 known cases of expulsion of jews from numerous countries over a period of more than a thousand years.

Just stick to arguments and acts. No need to use flowery language like blatant. No need to call me delusional, that too is a form of aggression which is an emotion. The 1,030 "known cases" of expulsions are not true but you are welcome to provide me with a source. Be like Spock.

[ConfusedJew]

So come on CJ, what has accusations of coin clipping, or ritual murder, or routinely cheating/lying, or sexual degeneracy, or treasonal acts, or… etc., etc., got to do with Christianity?

Q1. Did you even read the long list I provided of expulsions and the reasons given?

No I have not read your long list. Please provide a source and we can discuss that so that I can verify is the source is even credible, which it most likely will not be in my expectation.

Q2. Do you know anything at all about the most recent, documented cases of jewish ritual murder of non-Jews?

No, I don't know what you are talking about. If you provide a credible source, I will take a look.

Q3. Do you know anything at all about the reasons given for the 19th century Russian progroms against Jews?

Some of the reasons were due to economic envy, accusations of deicide, and due to false conspiracy theories that were spread in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (plagiarized from other fictional sources). If you have other arguments, feel free to present those. Even if any of them are accurate, it does not justify collectively punishing an entire group of people if a tiny subset of them transgresses. This is my personal moral value, but maybe you think it is justifiable to punish somebody for what their sibling did.

Thank you.

[ConfusedJew]

Oh dear. Another denial of contrary evidence. It is now clear to me that you are a delusional person who can not respond intelligently or honestly to rival points of view.
E.g. I have never stated that I think “collective punishment or even judgment of innocent people is acceptable”. So that’s an insulting and another deliberately demeaning misrepresentation.

Your logic is weak. You did not explicitly state that but it was an implied assumption based on what you said. I asked you a question to get at that implied assumption and you dodged it.

If you think that any of the expulsions were logical, then you are condoning collective punishment. Why do you ever think it would be justifiable to expel a single human from a country or society, let alone an entire group?

Do you think every single one of the Jewish expulsions were justified or were they all irrational?

[ConfusedJew]

1) direct expulsion from England in 1290 for coin clipping.

OK that's fine. Based on my research, there is some archaeological evidence that coin clipping did occur amongst a small group of both Jews and Christians.

The coin clipping scandal of 1278–1279 led to the arrest of more than 100 Christians and over 250 Jews. So it was not solely a Jewish phenomenon. Some confessions were obtained—but many under duress, torture, or threat of death.

But at the time, the Crown was deeply indebted to Jewish moneylenders. Arresting and executing them, then seizing their property, benefited the king financially. Though both Jews and Christians clipped coins, Jews were disproportionately arrested and punished. Over 100 Jews were executed, while Christian punishments were often more lenient. Trials lacked due process by modern standards. Torture and coerced confessions were common. Blood libels and antisemitic propaganda were rampant during this period. Coin clipping accusations fit into a broader pattern of demonizing Jews with fabricated or exaggerated charges.

So based on this example, I have a few follow up questions for you.

1. Do you think Jews and Christians or all humans should get the same punishments for committing the same crime?

2. Do you think that all trials back then, or even today, are completely accurate in their judgments? For example, if somebody confesses while you are torturing them, is that a credible or valid confession?

3. Let's say all 250 Jews that were accused of coin clipping actually did it, I would say that's most definitely not true but I'm being generous here. Do you think it is justifiable to expel all 3,000 Jews living in England if 10% of them do something that is wrong and that isn't even a violent or sexual crime?

2) see previous posts.

This is an example of me being bombarded. This thread is about Medieval anti-semitism and expulsions which has nothing to do about sexual behaviors. You are also telling me to go back through this thread and reference an old post. Let's just put this discussion in another thread so we can keep things organized better. I will address this subject there if you would like to create one.

3) countersemetism does not stem from the rejection of jesus unless you believe that rejection led to the destruction of the second temple and expulsion from Palestine.

This is a non sequitur to me. The Jews were occupied by Rome and expelled for an uprising. Later on after the collapse of the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church filled the power vacuum and the Catholics persecuted Jews for not accepting Jesus.

Do you deny that the Crusades were bloody and unjust for the Jews? There were many events like that over the past thousands of years.

[ConfusedJew]

1) direct expulsion from England in 1290 for coin clipping.

OK that's fine. Based on my research, there is some archaeological evidence that coin clipping did occur amongst a small group of both Jews and Christians.

The coin clipping scandal of 1278–1279 led to the arrest of more than 100 Christians and over 250 Jews. So it was not solely a Jewish phenomenon. Some confessions were obtained—but many under duress, torture, or threat of death.

But at the time, the Crown was deeply indebted to Jewish moneylenders. Arresting and executing them, then seizing their property, benefited the king financially. Though both Jews and Christians clipped coins, Jews were disproportionately arrested and punished. Over 100 Jews were executed, while Christian punishments were often more lenient. Trials lacked due process by modern standards. Torture and coerced confessions were common. Blood libels and antisemitic propaganda were rampant during this period. Coin clipping accusations fit into a broader pattern of demonizing Jews with fabricated or exaggerated charges.

So based on this example, I have a few follow up questions for you.

1. Do you think Jews and Christians or all humans should get the same punishments for committing the same crime?

2. Do you think that all trials back then, or even today, are completely accurate in their judgments? For example, if somebody confesses while you are torturing them, is that a credible or valid confession?

3. Let's say all 250 Jews that were accused of coin clipping actually did it, I would say that's most definitely not true but I'm being generous here. Do you think it is justifiable to expel all 3,000 Jews living in England if 10% of them do something that is wrong and that isn't even a violent or sexual crime?

2) see previous posts.

This is an example of me being bombarded. This thread is about Medieval anti-semitism and expulsions which has nothing to do about sexual behaviors. You are also telling me to go back through this thread and reference an old post. Let's just put this discussion in another thread so we can keep things organized better. I will address this subject there if you would like to create one.

3) countersemetism does not stem from the rejection of jesus unless you believe that rejection led to the destruction of the second temple and expulsion from Palestine.

This is a non sequitur to me. The Jews were occupied by Rome and expelled for an uprising. Later on after the collapse of the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church filled the power vacuum and the Catholics persecuted Jews for not accepting Jesus.

Do you deny that the Crusades were bloody and unjust for the Jews? There were many events like that over the past thousands of years.

[Wahrheitssucher]

You decided “very emotional” on the use of one word “blatantly”. That shows an inability to assess written words correctly. Which is going to be a huge handicap for you if you genuinely want to investigate the possible/probable falsity of the holocaust ‘mass-gassing’ allegation.
Whether the wording is “blatantly false” or “clearly false”, the evidence refuting your false claim still stands. You’ve just ignored it by focusing instead on the messenger rather than the message.

BOTTOM LINE:
This isn’t an “emotionally charged subject” for me. I suggest the fact that you think it is, demonstrates you are psychologically projecting your own state-of-mind: presumably because you are experiencing cognitive dissonance from the evidence provided.
Anyone who thinks they can know from one continent (America) the state of mind of someone living across a vast ocean (in Europe) much BETTER and more accurately than that person themselves can has serious issues. It is a sign of a delusional mind-set.
Which would explain why you can’t accept (or even familiarise yourself with) the considerable evidence of reasons for the 1030 known cases of expulsion of jews from numerous countries over a period of more than a thousand years.

Just stick to arguments and facts.

That is what I have been doing. I can’t be held responsible if you don’t read the provided facts and instead respond emotionally with denial and avoidance due to cognitive dissonance.

No need to use flowery language like blatant.

That isn’t “flowery language”.

No need to call me delusional, that too is a form of aggression which is an emotion.

A logical and precise psychological observation based upon repeated but unacknowledged behaviour is neither “aggressive” nor “emotional”, Captain.

The 1,030 "known cases" of expulsions are not true but you are welcome to provide me with a source. Be like Spock.

You can not know the cases “are not true” until you have familiarised yourself with the evidence for each of them. Noone can do that, Captain. To believe that you can is illogical.

I have already provided you with information of numerous cases with verifiable sources FOR EVERY ONE PROVIDED. You thought the list was “long” and admitted you didn’t read it. But here you are asking for a source as if that never happened.

I suggest the most logical course of action for you, Captain, is that you visit the sickbay and make an appointment to see the Enterprise’s clinical psychologist.

[Wahrheitssucher]

So come on CJ, what has accusations of coin clipping, or ritual murder, or routinely cheating/lying, or sexual degeneracy, or treasonal acts, or… etc., etc., got to do with Christianity?

Q1. Did you even read the long list I provided of expulsions and the reasons given?

No I have not read your long list. Please provide a source and we can discuss that so that I can verify is the source is even credible, which it most likely will not be in my expectation.

Q2. Do you know anything at all about the most recent, documented cases of jewish ritual murder of non-Jews?

No, I don't know what you are talking about. If you provide a credible source, I will take a look.

Q3. Do you know anything at all about the reasons given for the 19th century Russian progroms against Jews?

Some of the reasons were due to economic envy, accusations of deicide, and due to false conspiracy theories that were spread in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (plagiarized from other fictional sources). If you have other arguments, feel free to present those. Even if any of them are accurate, it does not justify collectively punishing an entire group of people if a tiny subset of them transgresses. This is my personal moral value, but maybe you think it is justifiable to punish somebody for what their sibling did.
Thank you.

What was wrong with the sources already provided and not read?

The problem here is you demonstrate and admit you are ignorant of the causes for expulsion, yet won’t read evidence that would remove that ignorance.

You again end with a passive-aggressive attempt at being demeaning/insulting and asserting superiority by falsely implying I support collective punishment. I do not. My interest here is whether the accusations that caused the expulsions had any credibility. Your repeated resorting to opinions on the morality of collective punishment is off-topic and a distraction. I think that behaviour on your part is deliberate but subliminal avoidance.