Truth about Jewish Expulsions

[ConfusedJew]

Let's stick to expulsions in this thread.

So far as how I formed my opinions, that would take a book. Needless to say, it didn't occur over night and this is not some unsubstantiated racial hatred or baseless set of accusations. It is the result of intense study and research.

You wouldn't think your opinions are baseless, otherwise you wouldn't hold them. A better question is how good are your research and studying skills?

[Stubble]

Do me a favor and stop with personally attacking me or my rigor.

I am going to refrain from here and now attacking yours.

Let's stick to the topic that you started, jewsih expulsions.

For these other tangents, start new threads. Don't be surprised if some of those threads are removed as there is likely a better forum for them than this one.

You can also feel free to reach out via a DM if you need a particular clarification at any point. I am good about responding to DM's.

Of note, that you don't even consider jewish ethnocentrism or jewish behavior as a factor in jewish expulsion is a markable plank of your thesis about such things. At some point, you may consider reading source material (when available) and looking at both sides of the issue instead of blindly parroting the standard jewish talking points with regard to this and various other issues.

Again, stop accusing me of a lack of rigor and stop accusing me of making things up whole cloth, as you have done in this very thread and in others.

[ConfusedJew]

I'm not attacking them, I'm questioning them. I was a professional research analyst for many years. You are appealing to your intense course of research and study so I'm asking you why I should believe in your argument. Your implied assumption is that your research and study skills are strong so I'm questioning the assumption because I don't know who you are what you do or have done in real life.

[ConfusedJew]

Of note, that you don't even consider jewish ethnocentrism or jewish behavior as a factor in jewish expulsion is a markable plank of your thesis about such things. At some point, you may consider reading source material (when available) and looking at both sides of the issue instead of blindly parroting the standard jewish talking points with regard to this and various other issues.

All ethnic groups are ethnocentric to some degree or another and Jews are very strong in that category in many ways but they often do care about non Jews and go out of their way to help them and benefit them.

I looked at the source material, I don't agree with your interpretation.

To look at this objectively, you need to treat Jews the same as any other ethnic group. First, what is wrong about ethnocentrism and what about Jews do you specifically think is so harmfully ethnocentric? Is ethnocentrism a justification for expelling a group?

If you are a minority group living in a society that is being run by another ethnic group, what are your obligations to the whole society?

This is deeply discussed in the Talmud and very often misrepresented but a very important question.

I generally think it's a big problem to blame entire groups of people for the actions of individuals within that group. But it is OK to criticize specific actions and attitudes on an individual or cultural level (assuming it is an essential property of the culture).

[Stubble]

I'm not attacking them, I'm questioning them. I was a professional research analyst for many years. You are appealing to your intense course of research and study so I'm asking you why I should believe in your argument. Your implied assumption is that your research and study skills are strong so I'm questioning the assumption because I don't know who you are what you do or have done in real life.

See last paragraph of post #5, also see first post this page. There are other attacks on my rigor and my use of language littering this thread.

My opinion of you personally is rapidly deteriorating sir. The dishonesty you are putting on display here seems to know no bound.

Furthermore you continue to fail to address the topic of your own thread and continue to insult me while holding up a fig leaf and saying you are not.

This is not how Men behave sir. If you have something to say to me, out with it, send me a DM and say it.

[ConfusedJew]

See last paragraph of post #5, also see first post this page. There are other attacks on my rigor and my use of language littering this thread.

You didn't provide a source and then when you did, it didn't corroborate the claim that you made. I think it's fair to expect that if somebody lobs a criticism or complaint, it should be specific enough that it can be researched by the other person. Better if you provide a source that supports your claim. Establishing these rules creates an objective foundation to build on so that it reduces mistrust.

My opinion of you personally is rapidly deteriorating sir. The dishonesty you are putting on display here seems to know no bound.

I'm not being dishonest. If you don't agree with something address it logically. It is fair to question or criticize somebody's research and analytical methods. You are more than welcome to do that to me.

Furthermore you continue to fail to address the topic of your own thread and continue to insult me while holding up a fig leaf and saying you are not.

This is not how Men behave sir. If you have something to say to me, out with it, send me a DM and say it.

The topic of my own thread is the history of expulsions of the Jews. You brought up a point about ethnocentrism, which is an interesting topic to me, and I asked your opinion about it in an objective format so that it does not hold Jews to a double standard. Holding certain groups to a higher standard than other groups or even yourself or your own is a form of racism and hypocrisy. By thinking about this in general, it eliminates that potential source of bias.

What is your issue with ethnocentrism as a whole, regardless of who does it? Once we establish then, we can look at specific case studies. The general rules the specific.

[Stubble]

Start a thread on jewish ethnocentrism then.

So far as your accusation in post #5, not only was it off base, it was an insult that you have doubled and tripled down on. Again, this dishonesty you are using to cover this up, like a cat, is not unnoticed and will not be forgotten.

You didn't even ask for source, you went straight to insults, and continue to.

Now you are claiming;

1) these weren't jews in Guatemala
2) they weren't expelled
3) they didn't fuck kids

Apparently. Because that's what I said, and I provided facts. I suppose I could have provided more, but, they were not requested, at all. Instead I was accused and still am accused of misrepresentation.

[ConfusedJew]

They were not technically expelled. That headline was very misleading and sensationalist.

You brought up ethnocentrism as it pertains to the expulsions so it is relevant to this thread. No need to create another thread for something that is directly tied to this one.

I didn't say anything about the kids, I said that was not in the article and I don't want to research this tiny sect, at least not now.

Edit: I see there are allegations and some investigation in the second article that you sent but they were unrelated to any expulsion. It's not worth discussing an ongoing investigation when you don't have a fraction of the facts and it's a moving target. It is also an extremely small part of the global Jewish community. It doesn't add much to the conversation to cherry pick isolated incidents.

Will you please stay on topic and answer the questions about how you feel ethnocentrism played any role in the actual expulsions? Do you have any specific complaints or are you just opposed to ethnocentrism, which isn't unique to Jews and doesn't mean that much.

[Stubble]

As a White Nationalist I have no particular problem with ethnocentrism, no. My main issue and one of the drivers of jewish expulsions is that jews become a state within a state. Then there comes jewish subversion. This is another particularly pernicious trait of jews historically that I find vexing.

I am not alone in that opinion.

I haven't the time to write you a treatise however on your people and these are traits that echo throughout history with your people that you should both acknowledge and not shrink away from.

The persecutions of your people, the various expulsions and pogroms, they have not been driven by 'envy' and have not been to 'rob the jewish people'.

One thing for the nation of judah to consider is to not live among those for whom they hold a burning ember of contempt. To the usurpe and abuse the native population is abhorrent behavior and is often met with physical retaliation.

jewish ethno nationalism is fine, in Israel. If you are an American, Latvian, Guatemalan etc, be that, not a jew in America, Latvia, Guatemala etc.

Dual nationalism and usurpation are problems.

[Wetzelrad]

For what it's worth, I think this thread is one of your most agreeable posts so far on the forum. We should above all be committed to truth, and many people in this sector fall short of that. The 109 meme is lazy and grug-headed. Serious scholarship on this topic is warranted.

That said, the facts cannot be ignored. Your "more accurate list" of twelve countries is a distortion. Any individual could compare your list with one of the much longer lists and wonder why you excluded places like the Netherlands and Brazil and Egypt.

Your blaming the expulsions on false accusations is another distortion. When Edward I expelled Jews in 1790, he didn't have to invent crimes. Jews were discovered to have led a massive coin clipping operation and were well-known to engage in exploitative moneylending even after it was outlawed.

Blaming it on some sort of greed, to "seize assets or cancel debts", is another distortion. When Titus sacked Jerusalem, he wasn't driven by mere greed, he said to Jews "you made preparations for war against us with our own money... and, like merciless serpents, have thrown out your poison against those that treated you kindly."

Blaming it on the killing of Jesus or theology generally is another distortion. When Jews were expelled from Spain, Isabella and Ferdinand didn't say "get out because you killed Jesus." They said Jews "have had means and ways they can to subvert and to steal faithful Christians from our holy Catholic faith and to separate them from it, and to draw them to themselves and subvert them to their own wicked belief and conviction, instructing them in the ceremonies and observances of their law". And when Manuel did the same four years later, he likewise held Jews responsible for the "many Christians [who] do depart from the true career, which is the Holy Catholic Faith".

We can actually talk about these events and condemn their immoralities without having to lie by claiming that Jews are guiltless victims, or by minimizing the numbers and magnitude of these events, or by denying their occurrence as "false".

[ConfusedJew]

As a White Nationalist I have no particular problem with ethnocentrism, no. My main issue and one of the drivers of jewish expulsions is that jews become a state within a state. Then there comes jewish subversion. This is another particularly pernicious trait of jews historically that I find vexing.

One thing for the nation of judah to consider is to not live among those for whom they hold a burning ember of contempt. To the usurpe and abuse the native population is abhorrent behavior and is often met with physical retaliation.

jewish ethno nationalism is fine, in Israel. If you are an American, Latvian, Guatemalan etc, be that, not a jew in America, Latvia, Guatemala etc.

Dual nationalism and usurpation are problems.

OK this is interesting. What does it mean to you when you say that you are a "White Nationalist"?

What does it mean for the Jews to be a "state within a state"? I ask this sincerely because this can mean so many different things and I don't understand what you are talking about or why this is a problem. How does that even differ from your "White Nationalism"?

Please be more specific about what you mean why you say "dual nationalism" and "usurpation".

We do not live in a white country in the US. It was clearly originally a white supremacist nation, but that was legally ended after the American Civil War.

[Stubble]

You misspelled the hart celler act. I digress.

Not topics for this thread.

[ConfusedJew]

For what it's worth, I think this thread is one of your most agreeable posts so far on the forum. We should above all be committed to truth, and many people in this sector fall short of that. The 109 meme is lazy and grug-headed. Serious scholarship on this topic is warranted.

Thank you. I appreciate your intellectual honesty.

That said, the facts cannot be ignored. Your "more accurate list" of twelve countries is a distortion. Any individual could compare your list with one of the much longer lists and wonder why you excluded places like the Netherlands and Brazil and Egypt.

That was what came up in a brief search. I don't know anything about expulsions from Brazil and the Netherlands. Egypt is a different story though and was due to the 1948 War of Independence / Nakbha in Palestine. I'm fine going through the actual historical details with you in an intelligent way to see what you guy are talking about.

Obviously exaggerating and twisting the truth, like what is done with the 109 expulsions meme, is extremely hard to engage with because it's incomprehensibly and simply false.

Your blaming the expulsions on false accusations is another distortion. When Edward I expelled Jews in 1790, he didn't have to invent crimes. Jews were discovered to have led a massive coin clipping operation and were well-known to engage in exploitative moneylending even after it was outlawed.

This is a concrete example that I can look into but I'm fairly positive that many Jews were expelled and scapegoated for false things across many instances. Assuming that you are right, if some Jews illegally engaged in coin clipping, is it right or fair to expel every single Jew from your state?

As far as I know, moneylending was not outlawed but Jews were discriminated against and prohibited from engaging in so many professions that they were somewhat forced into moneylending.

Blaming it on some sort of greed, to "seize assets or cancel debts", is another distortion. When Titus sacked Jerusalem, he wasn't driven by mere greed, he said to Jews "you made preparations for war against us with our own money... and, like merciless serpents, have thrown out your poison against those that treated you kindly."

That would not have been the case in all instances but it was the case in many as I understand it. Let me look into this more deeply and I will come back to you with concrete examples that can be discussed.

Blaming it on the killing of Jesus or theology generally is another distortion. When Jews were expelled from Spain, Isabella and Ferdinand didn't say "get out because you killed Jesus." They said Jews "have had means and ways they can to subvert and to steal faithful Christians from our holy Catholic faith and to separate them from it, and to draw them to themselves and subvert them to their own wicked belief and conviction, instructing them in the ceremonies and observances of their law". And when Manuel did the same four years later, he likewise held Jews responsible for the "many Christians [who] do depart from the true career, which is the Holy Catholic Faith".

Being blamed for the death of Jesus was definitely a rationalization for many pogroms and Jewish murders throughout history, but you are right that it didn't seem to be the primary motivation in Spain. Jews were expelled from Spain because the Crown was worried that Jews were a threat to the conversos (converted Jews) but it was just plain vanilla religious persecution. They didn't want to grant religious freedom to minority groups. You can blame the Jews for not becoming Christians, but I don't think that's fair at all to anybody. We believe in freedom of religion in the West, with certain guardrails.

The Crown's wanted to consolidate and centralize its power and religious unification was used as a tool to do so.

We can actually talk about these events and condemn their immoralities without having to lie by claiming that Jews are guiltless victims, or by minimizing the numbers and magnitude of these events, or by denying their occurrence as "false".

In very many cases, Jews were victimized and persecuted for literally no fault of their own. The fact that individual Jews may have offended in some way at some point throughout history, seems to be nitpicking to me. There is no society of humans anywhere at any point in history that has not done something wrong or harmful.

[ConfusedJew]

You misspelled the hart celler act. I digress.

Not topics for this thread.

The Immigration Act of 1965 dismantled an institution that perpetuated "white supremacy" but it was first dealt a serious blow during the civil war. There are still structures in the US that promote the interests of whites over non-whites, but those are continuing to be dismantled gradually and that will most certainly continue.

That is a topic for another thread though.

[Stubble]

You misspelled the hart celler act. I digress.

Not topics for this thread.

The Immigration Act of 1965 dismantled an institution that perpetuated "white supremacy" but it was first dealt a serious blow during the civil war. There are still structures in the US that promote the interests of whites over non-whites, but those are continuing to be dismantled gradually and that will most certainly continue.

That is a topic for another thread though.

Tell me you don't understand usurpation while showing me usurpation again....

Dual loyalty, that's being a jew and putting judea first, not the country on which you live, but, you are well aware of this, there is no way you are so dense as not to see that.

Both of those things cause expulsion.

Then there are also the conflicting moral structures of our peoples and there is also the fact that your people hold a burning ember of contempt for the people of any nation that hosts them.

Where I read 'there is wisdom in a multitude of council', you read 'by deception thou shalt do war'.