The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

[Nessie]

As you ignore the morgue documents and derail that thread with material you should be presenting here.

What document have I ignored? Be specific, stop throwing non-specific accusations at me.

Furthermore, wow, Archie was right. If I can't prove that I bathed in my tub, then apparently every missing puppy in the united states has been drown in it, because I cannot evidence otherwise...

That comment tells me you do not understand how to evidence something did, or did not happen. You have used the strawman fallacy, whereby you have totally misrepresented my arguments.

Again, I've been through most of these documents, and I have also managed to get some of the surrounding memoranda by going to these cited sources and tracking things back.

What I have found is a bunch of misrepresentation of documents presented in isolation with 'code words' or mistranslations touted as evidence of homicidal intent.

The references to "special" treatment or action is an obvious code word. Evidence proves what the code word refers to.

As an example, I cite that Wirths memo. You just brush this away and don't acknowledge that it doesn't belong in the 'Auschwitz Index' as it is being presented, oh no, instead, you simply perry and say, well, there is the other document that I don't think you have looked at yet which obviously proves the point, because, eyewitnesses....

Wirths is a witness to what happened at the Kremas, so any document he wrote, that references a Krema, is relevant to the index.

Bro, do you even hear yourself?

Then there is the absolute failure to address the memo about the motor and its misrepresentation and your repeated use of words that never appear in it.

What words?

All you are trying to do is muddy the water.

How so? All you do is thrown accusations my way, without going into any detail, or specifics.

Present facts, don't just throw a bunch of bullshit in the room and then say 'muh eyewitnesses'...

Fact is, how we interpret the documents is determined by other evidence relevant to the operation of the Kremas 1943-4. When every single witness who worked there during that time states they were used for gassings, and the documents and circumstantial evidence corroborate them, then gassings are proven.

[Stubble]

'What document have I ignored? Be specific, stop throwing non-specific accusations at me.'

In the morgue document thread? The morgue document, mostly...

'Wirths is a witness to what happened at the Kremas, so any document he wrote, that references a Krema, is relevant to the index.'

As you misrepresent it as something it absolutely isn't, like, every other document on that list I have vetted. You tried to get me to believe that that document referred to lk#2 as an undressing room. Honestly, how dishonest can you be Nessie?

'What words?'

Hot and air. The words hot and air do not appear in the document you kept referencing concerning lk#1 and this supplemental heater you are suddenly obsessed with. The words hot and air...that document is clearly not sinister and is referring to the fresh air blower motor as the warm air blower motor. It in no way says what you are trying to tell me it says. Read the damn document.

'Fact is, how we interpret the documents is determined by other evidence relevant to the operation of the Kremas 1943-4. When every single witness who worked there during that time states they were used for gassings, and the documents and circumstantial evidence corroborate them, then gassings are proven.'

You, are, an idiot if you actually believe this. Also, these documents in no way say what you are claiming they say. You just brush each off. You want me to go one by one so you can absolutely ignore what I say and the say 'muh eyewitnesses'.

You won't even admit how wrong it is to put that Dr Wirths memo in there. You just pivot to 'he existed and he knew there were gassings so him asking for an undressing room in the vestibule obviously means what I say it means, that lk#2 was an undressing room'.

No, it means that he asked for an undressing room in the vestibule.

[Callafangers]

No, [the documents] are a perfect fit with what the witnesses say happened.

Strangely enough, this "fit" you're speaking of mainly applies to statements given post-war, often many years afterward. That is, you know, long after these documents were confiscated, read, and then woven into the storytelling of 'witnesses' to help bolster their defamation case against their wartime enemy (Germans).

Given the notorious lack of any precise chain-of-custody information on basically all of these documents, one might argue this is quite concerning.

[Stubble]

No, [the documents] are a perfect fit with what the witnesses say happened.

Strangely enough, this "fit" you're speaking of mainly applies to statements given post-war, often many years afterward. That is, you know, long after these documents were confiscated, read, and then woven into the storytelling of 'witnesses' to help bolster their defamation case against their wartime enemy (Germans).

Given the notorious lack of any precise chain-of-custody information on basically all of these documents, one might argue this is quite concerning.

Dude, this completely ignores the fact that what are presented here are a series of innocuous memos about planning, construction and operation inside the camp.

The wild misframing by exterminationists and promoters is what gets me.

It's nuts.

If I read a document that was WAY outside of this scope, that said something like 'this is where we murder 2,000 people at a time, and this is where we put their cremains' I'd question its patents. Out of everything in this collection that I have looked at, that does not appear. Just a bunch of misrepresentation and misframing of mundane paperwork generated by an operation.

[Nessie]

'What document have I ignored? Be specific, stop throwing non-specific accusations at me.'

In the morgue document thread? The morgue document, mostly...

I discuss it here;

viewtopic.php?p=2054#p2054

'Wirths is a witness to what happened at the Kremas, so any document he wrote, that references a Krema, is relevant to the index.'

As you misrepresent it as something it absolutely isn't, like, every other document on that list I have vetted. You tried to get me to believe that that document referred to lk#2 as an undressing room. Honestly, how dishonest can you be Nessie?

I am going by this source;

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ce-on.html

"Letter from Eduard Wirths of 21 January 1943 on “undressing room” in crematorium 2 [Mattogno ATCOS, vol. 1, p. 72]"

Are you saying Mattogno is lying?

'What words?'

Hot and air. The words hot and air do not appear in the document you kept referencing concerning lk#1 and this supplemental heater you are suddenly obsessed with. The words hot and air...that document is clearly not sinister and is referring to the fresh air blower motor as the warm air blower motor. It in no way says what you are trying to tell me it says. Read the damn document.

If I put Warmluftzufuhrungeznlage into google translate it states "warm air supply system". That is still incompatible with storing corpses.

'Fact is, how we interpret the documents is determined by other evidence relevant to the operation of the Kremas 1943-4. When every single witness who worked there during that time states they were used for gassings, and the documents and circumstantial evidence corroborate them, then gassings are proven.'

You, are, an idiot if you actually believe this. Also, these documents in no way say what you are claiming they say. You just brush each off. You want me to go one by one so you can absolutely ignore what I say and the say 'muh eyewitnesses'.

Corroborating evidence is how historians, courts, journalists and the police prove crimes. Show me where the documents in the Index in no way say what I claim they say. Nit picking hot over warm for a translation, is not in no way different. Anything other than cold air is incompatible with storing corpses.

You won't even admit how wrong it is to put that Dr Wirths memo in there. You just pivot to 'he existed and he knew there were gassings so him asking for an undressing room in the vestibule obviously means what I say it means, that lk#2 was an undressing room'.

No, it means that he asked for an undressing room in the vestibule.

He worked there and references the Krema, so it is relevant evidence.

https://archive.org/stream/HealthcareIn ... z_djvu.txt

"In his writing of January 21, 1943 to the camp headquarters, he requested modifications to Crematorium II,
which was then still under construction. He requested the division of the dissecting room into two spaces, and he requested “to provide an undressing room in the basement” (Mattogno 2004b, Part III)"

Undressing room and warm air, that is unlike any mortuary I have ever been to.

[Stubble]

On January 21, 1943, the SS-Standortarzt (garrison surgeon) of Auschwitz, SSHauptsturmführer Eduard Wirths, wrote a letter to the camp commander:105 “1. The SS garrison surgeon at Auschwitz requests to install a partition in the dissecting hall planned for the new crematorium building at Birkenau, dividing the hall into 2 rooms of equal size and to have 1 or 2 wash basins installed in the first of these rooms, because the latter will be needed as an autopsy room, whereas the 2nd room will be needed for anatomical preparations, for the preservation of files and writing materials and books, for the preparation of colored tissue sections and for work with the microscope. 2. Furthermore it is requested to provide for an ‘undressing room’ [Auskleideraum] in the cellar rooms.”

Dude. There is your source. Right there.

What part of that refers to lk#2? No part of it does. No part.

The rest, dude, let's start here. We will take this one at a time. Let's start with this document right here.

[curioussoul]

The tally sheets show that the time intervals between corpse insertion could not have been longer than 40 minutes.

No that's the minimum.

"Mattogno misunderstood because...he just did OK??? I'm definitely not making shit up, trust me bro."

Other things, yes. The material is made to operate in the temperature range it is made for. And that is a high temperature range. A higher temperature range than it is made for would be bad as well. Surely you understand that?

"I made this building not to collapse, so if I set it on fire it won't collapse."

We'll go over the Gusen tally sheet tomorrow, ok? The logic in it is trivially easy to understand. Then we will relate that logic to ALL the contemporary German estimates and ask if they were all wrong and instead Mattogno is right.

Is that a "he just did [misunderstand]" response in your brain?

The Gusen sheet is the single most damning document in existence regarding the efficiency of the crematoria because it proves without a shadow of a doubt that the fuel requirement per corpse was approximately 30 kg of coke, during continuous mass-cremation operations. Taking the Gusen sheet and combining the numbers with the completely unrelated Crematora III Handover Protocol from Birkenau and pretending that you've somehow managed to increase the efficiency tenfold is utterly absurdly.

[Stubble]

No that's the minimum.

"Mattogno misunderstood because...he just did OK??? I'm definitely not making shit up, trust me bro."


"I made this building not to collapse, so if I set it on fire it won't collapse."

We'll go over the Gusen tally sheet tomorrow, ok? The logic in it is trivially easy to understand. Then we will relate that logic to ALL the contemporary German estimates and ask if they were all wrong and instead Mattogno is right.

Is that a "he just did [misunderstand]" response in your brain?

The Gusen sheet is the singly most damning document in existence regarding the efficiency of the crematoria because it proves without a shadow of a doubt that the fuel requirement per corpse was approximately 30 kg of coke, during continuous mass-cremation operations. Taking the Gusen sheet and combining the numbers with the completely unrelated Crematora III Handover Protocol from Birkenau and pretending that you've somehow managed to increase the efficiency tenfold is utterly absurdly.

You can add to that Eyewitness testimony like that of Muller that the crematoria ovens were tended by the wheelbarrow load at a breakneck pace 24 hours per day, 7 days per week.

'Every oven had been fired since morning. We were ordered to keep the fires going which meant feeding them with two wheelbarrowfuls ofcoke every half hour.'

Page 82 'Eyewitness Auschwitz:Three Years in the Gas Chambers'

[fireofice]

One reason it doesn't make sense to say that the Gusen timesheet is a maximum is that the duration was calculated from the amount of bodies cremated over a specific period of time. Obviously, not every cremation was exactly 40 minutes. Some cremations were longer than 40 minutes and some were shorter than 40 minutes, but the average was 40 minutes. They were also obviously trying to cremate the bodies as fast as they could. If they could have gone faster, they would have done so and the average cremation time would then be lower than 40 minutes, if it was possible to do so. This makes 40 minutes the MINIMUM, not maximum.

[curioussoul]

We'll go over the Gusen tally sheet tomorrow, ok? The logic in it is trivially easy to understand. Then we will relate that logic to ALL the contemporary German estimates and ask if they were all wrong and instead Mattogno is right.

Is that a "he just did [misunderstand]" response in your brain?

The Gusen sheet is the singly most damning document in existence regarding the efficiency of the crematoria because it proves without a shadow of a doubt that the fuel requirement per corpse was approximately 30 kg of coke, during continuous mass-cremation operations. Taking the Gusen sheet and combining the numbers with the completely unrelated Crematora III Handover Protocol from Birkenau and pretending that you've somehow managed to increase the efficiency tenfold is utterly absurdly.

You can add to that Eyewitness testimony like that of Muller that the crematoria ovens were tended by the wheelbarrow load at a breakneck pace 24 hours per day, 7 days per week.

'Every oven had been fired since morning. We were ordered to keep the fires going which meant feeding them with two wheelbarrowfuls ofcoke every half hour.'

Page 82 'Eyewitness Auschwitz:Three Years in the Gas Chambers'

Yes, and the fireproof clay problem is yet to be resolved. I can't stress this enough. Anti-revisionists have never responded to this argument. We know for an absolute fact that the fireclay for the ovens was rated at about 3000 cremations before it had to be replaced. Such replacements were costly and time consuming and required a specialized brick layer to basically re-lay the brick structure for the oven, which could take days to complete. What's even more damning is that shipments of fireproof clay have been documented and even worksheets for brick replacements in other crematoria are documented for Auschwitz, but for the ovens that supposedly cremated half a million corpses there's nothing. To this very day, in 2025, crematoria replace their bricks at around 2000 cremations. Not only can anyone easily Google this fact, but during the Zundel Trial in Canada, a cremation expert testified to this fact and outright stated that cremating so many corpses would have been completely impossible because the bricks will eventually crack and the oven will no longer be able to store heat.

[Stubble]

If I understand correctly, the way exterminationists resolve this is by saying they got a special patch paste from the manufacturer and they repaired all cracks as they occurred.

This magic crack mud didn't require any cure time and you could use it during operation if I recall correctly, I'll look for the testimony, I'm not sure I can recall who said it. I will look through the 3 volumes of 'sonderkommando' by Mattogno when I get a chance.

[TlsMS93]

If I understand correctly, the way exterminationists resolve this is by saying they got a special patch paste from the manufacturer and they repaired all cracks as they occurred.

This magic crack mud didn't require any cure time and you could use it during operation if I recall correctly, I'll look for the testimony, I'm not sure I can recall who said it. I will look through the 3 volumes of 'sonderkommando' by Mattogno when I get a chance.

Have they reached that point? Magic mud?

No matter how many cremations were carried out, it was designed for 3,000 cremations, and that was because the normal number was 2,000. There was no renovation of any of the Kremas in Birkenau because this limit was not reached, and the amount of coke delivered in 1942-43 proves that during this period the only bodies cremated were those of registered prisoners who died “naturally”.

Without renovation of the refractory bricks and without coke, there was no Holocaust.

[Stubble]

Pg 110 'Sonderkommando I' Mattogno

'As soon as Crematorium II came into operation in the last third of March 1943, the three forced-draft blowers of the chimney overheated and were irreparably damaged. Eng. Prüfer and his colleague Karl Schultz, who had designed the combustion-air blower for the triple-muffle furnace, were summoned to Auschwitz on March 24 and 25 in order to discuss what to do. It was decided to remove the forced-draft systems. This work was carried out by the Topf fitter Heinrich Messing between May 17 and 19. But the Central Construction Office had already noticed earlier that the damage was even more serious: it involved the refractory lining of the chimney and the smoke ducts, which had collapsed or was damaged and had to be rebuilt. The entire affair, which I have extensively exposed in another study, dragged on for months and produced many documents. I summarize the essential points.109 The damage to the chimney and the flue ducts occurred in the latter half of March but was discovered only in the following month, as the Central Construction Office requested Prüfer to send a new project for the chimney lining at that time. Work on the demolition of the damaged refractory lining began a few days after the arrival of Robert Koehler’s letter of May 21, probably on May 24, after Bischoff’s telephone conversation with Prüfer; it stopped on 1st June, but it was not possible to carry out further repairs, because the new design of the chimney lining had not yet been received. This design project was assigned to Koehler Co. whose personnel were surely present at Auschwitz on May 29, and it is probable that Koehler took part in the demolition job. In the Topf letter of July 23 it is said that Crematorium II had been out of service for six weeks, hence since June 11, but any cremation activity surely ended earlier than that, because one cannot imagine any incinerations being carried out with workers present inside the chimney; therefore, cremations must have stopped around May 24. The crematorium was possibly used normally until the damage was discovered, but, keeping in mind the Central Construction Office’s experience with the Main Camp’s crematorium, it is difficult to believe that operation would have been at full load later on.'

Well, they did have to replace the refractory bricks in Krema II, but, it wasn't from overuse, it was from equipment failure.

They dropped a bunch of fan motors at Krema II. Probably should have verified their static pressures...

[Nessie]

On January 21, 1943, the SS-Standortarzt (garrison surgeon) of Auschwitz, SSHauptsturmführer Eduard Wirths, wrote a letter to the camp commander:105 “1. The SS garrison surgeon at Auschwitz requests to install a partition in the dissecting hall planned for the new crematorium building at Birkenau, dividing the hall into 2 rooms of equal size and to have 1 or 2 wash basins installed in the first of these rooms, because the latter will be needed as an autopsy room, whereas the 2nd room will be needed for anatomical preparations, for the preservation of files and writing materials and books, for the preparation of colored tissue sections and for work with the microscope. 2. Furthermore it is requested to provide for an ‘undressing room’ [Auskleideraum] in the cellar rooms.”

Dude. There is your source. Right there.

What part of that refers to lk#2? No part of it does. No part.

The rest, dude, let's start here. We will take this one at a time. Let's start with this document right here.

Wirths is requesting that he be given part of one of the new Kremas to be built in 1943, for his medical studies. That did not happen, as there is no evidence to corroborate he worked there, autopsies took place and that files were kept there. There is corroboration that an undressing room was built.

[Nessie]

If I understand correctly, the way exterminationists resolve this is by saying they got a special patch paste from the manufacturer and they repaired all cracks as they occurred.

This magic crack mud didn't require any cure time and you could use it during operation if I recall correctly, I'll look for the testimony, I'm not sure I can recall who said it. I will look through the 3 volumes of 'sonderkommando' by Mattogno when I get a chance.

The evidence is that the Kremas needed repairs, were at times out of action and cremations had to take place outdoors to cope with the number of corpses. The most reliable way to establish how the Kremas operated, is to construct a timeline of the evidence. You then just need to accept that there will be gaps, where there is insufficient evidence to explain how some elements ran. Just because you cannot work out how the Kremas coped with so many corpses, is not evidence to prove no mass gassings and cremations.