What is the revisionist account of where the jews went?

[borjastick]

Stubble.

The 11m I think you refer to is the fake number from the fake minutes of the Wannsee Conference where according to the Holocaust Managers of the world the destruction by murder of all Europe's jews was planned and agreed upon. No evidence can be shown for this plan but there you go it's a fact...

The minutes of the meeting show the estimated number of jews by country right across Europe including of course countries which were not then and in some cases such as Britain never under German control. The figure amazingly comes to 11m.

In the real world though we deal in hard evidence, facts and actual knowledge not Schlomo telling a NY conference in 1998 'All 427 members of my close family were sent to Auschwitz. I was the ONLY survivor'. He then goes for a bowl of gruel at some NY deli and bumps into his uncle, cousins and extended family who also miraculously survived the Holocaust. I blame those gas chambers where water came out instead of gas. Still for those jews having a hot shower and being clean it must have seemed like the end of the world to them.

[Stubble]

My main point was that a random jew went on The Montel Williams Show and shouted down David Cole about his dead brother, who died in a gas chamber, only to have someone recognize that jews very alive brother and bring it to his attention.

The point about the other 5,000,000 is that the orthodoxy claims jews were just over half of 'the holocaust' according to the narrative. You've also got 5,000,000 bodies from roma, gypsies, the alphabet community etc.

That's almost twice the meat to contend with, to be rather crude about it.

Where's the fuel? Where's the bodies? Where's the extra time and gas for a further 5,000,000 victims.

In school they drilled into us, 'it was more than just jews, they murdered jehovah's witnesses' etc.

The 80+ year grudge for having to take a shower is rather odd. I'll grant you that point.

[TlsMS93]

There are many survivors claiming that they were the only survivors. They must have watched a lot of Justice League and seen the story of J'onn J'onzz.

As for the other 5 million non-Jews, this was a construction by Elie Wisel so that the number of victims would not be greater than that of Jews. It was not based on research, census or anything like that. Were they gassed or shot? Were they cremated or buried? There will be the same problems, fuel, logistics, cover-up.

Now there are many stories about discoveries of graves in the territories that were part of the USSR, but nothing profound, nothing that indicates that they were Jews who were intentionally killed. Even today, remains of soldiers from the Napoleonic wars are found in Russia. The easiest thing in the world is to find remains of those who fertilized that land from time to time, not to mention the millions during the First World War, the civil war, purges, etc.

[Joe Splink]

If you look at the origins of the ITS, https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/a ... ng-service, you'll see that:

As early as 1943, prominent archivists called for plans to administer and capture German war records. Ernst Posner, a distinguished German-Jewish archivist ...
....
In July 1945, UNRRA became the agency solely responsible for organizing and indexing all Nazi documents that had been gathered by Allied forces.
......
In 1947, the International Refugee Organization (IRO) replaced the UNRRA as the main supervisory organ that oversaw the management of this growing archive. On January 1, 1948, the IRO renamed the Central Tracing Bureau as the International Tracing System (ITS)

So, considerable effort has been made to determine where the Jews went. But, to my knowledge, we don't have access to that information. Has the ITS issued a report on 'where the Jews went'?. If not, it seems to me the answer to the question is probably unknowable.

[HansHill]

If you look at the origins of the ITS, https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/a ... ng-service, you'll see that:

As early as 1943, prominent archivists called for plans to administer and capture German war records. Ernst Posner, a distinguished German-Jewish archivist ...
....
In July 1945, UNRRA became the agency solely responsible for organizing and indexing all Nazi documents that had been gathered by Allied forces.
......
In 1947, the International Refugee Organization (IRO) replaced the UNRRA as the main supervisory organ that oversaw the management of this growing archive. On January 1, 1948, the IRO renamed the Central Tracing Bureau as the International Tracing System (ITS)

So, considerable effort has been made to determine where the Jews went. But, to my knowledge, we don't have access to that information. Has the ITS issued a report on 'where the Jews went'?. If not, it seems to me the answer to the question is probably unknowable.

1) Jews went to where Jews are

2) Its pracitcally impossible to geolocate each and every one of them, given these were the exact people who i) were hiding under floorboards and in lofts, ii) have a documented history of evading the attention of centralised authorities, iii) resisting integration and iv) changing their names in order to help achieve all of the above

3) If any of this sounds implausible, consider in the present day, USA and Europe with all of their modern surveillance tech and operational means, have absolutely no idea how many undocumented migrants are living in their respective contintents:

[Hektor]

...
1) Jews went to where Jews are

2) Its pracitcally impossible to geolocate each and every one of them, given these were the exact people who i) were hiding under floorboards and in lofts, ii) have a documented history of evading the attention of centralised authorities, iii) resisting integration and iv) changing their names in order to help achieve all of the above

3) If any of this sounds implausible, consider in the present day, USA and Europe with all of their modern surveillance tech and operational means, have absolutely no idea how many undocumented migrants are living in their respective contintents:
...

The "where did they go" is a trick question... Essentially insisting that there are six million Jews missing and that the best explanation was that they were gassed or exterminated by other means... It totally ignores that people may simply not register as Jews (again) and that there were migration movements in the period 1930 to 1950.

[blake121666]

...
1) Jews went to where Jews are

2) Its pracitcally impossible to geolocate each and every one of them, given these were the exact people who i) were hiding under floorboards and in lofts, ii) have a documented history of evading the attention of centralised authorities, iii) resisting integration and iv) changing their names in order to help achieve all of the above

3) If any of this sounds implausible, consider in the present day, USA and Europe with all of their modern surveillance tech and operational means, have absolutely no idea how many undocumented migrants are living in their respective contintents:
...

The "where did they go" is a trick question... Essentially insisting that there are six million Jews missing and that the best explanation was that they were gassed or exterminated by other means... It totally ignores that people may simply not register as Jews (again) and that there were migration movements in the period 1930 to 1950.

Germans speak of the number of Jews under their control in multiple documents and it is fairly well known by the outside world that large numbers of Jews came under German control. Asking what happened to those Jews is certainly NOT a "trick question".

[TlsMS93]

...
1) Jews went to where Jews are

2) Its pracitcally impossible to geolocate each and every one of them, given these were the exact people who i) were hiding under floorboards and in lofts, ii) have a documented history of evading the attention of centralised authorities, iii) resisting integration and iv) changing their names in order to help achieve all of the above

3) If any of this sounds implausible, consider in the present day, USA and Europe with all of their modern surveillance tech and operational means, have absolutely no idea how many undocumented migrants are living in their respective contintents:
...

The "where did they go" is a trick question... Essentially insisting that there are six million Jews missing and that the best explanation was that they were gassed or exterminated by other means... It totally ignores that people may simply not register as Jews (again) and that there were migration movements in the period 1930 to 1950.

Germans speak of the number of Jews under their control in multiple documents and it is fairly well known by the outside world that large numbers of Jews came under German control. Asking what happened to those Jews is certainly NOT a "trick question".

This only makes sense if you think that it was the Germans' obligation to register where each Jew was under their rule, they were not obliged to do so and yet they determined that millions crossed the Reich's area of ​​influence into the occupied eastern territories in the Korherr Report, which was part of the German foreign policy on the Jewish question. And at the same time, they had to evacuate the Jews from where they left them in accordance with the retreat of the Eastern Front.

So you are asking the wrong question, it was up to the Soviet authorities to determine how many Jews remained in their territory, was this done? When? How accurate was this data? Were Jews afraid to declare themselves as such in censuses behind the Iron Curtain?

[blake121666]

The "where did they go" is a trick question... Essentially insisting that there are six million Jews missing and that the best explanation was that they were gassed or exterminated by other means... It totally ignores that people may simply not register as Jews (again) and that there were migration movements in the period 1930 to 1950.

Germans speak of the number of Jews under their control in multiple documents and it is fairly well known by the outside world that large numbers of Jews came under German control. Asking what happened to those Jews is certainly NOT a "trick question".

This only makes sense if you think that it was the Germans' obligation to register where each Jew was under their rule, they were not obliged to do so and yet they determined that millions crossed the Reich's area of ​​influence into the occupied eastern territories in the Korherr Report, which was part of the German foreign policy on the Jewish question. And at the same time, they had to evacuate the Jews from where they left them in accordance with the retreat of the Eastern Front.

So you are asking the wrong question, it was up to the Soviet authorities to determine how many Jews remained in their territory, was this done? When? How accurate was this data? Were Jews afraid to declare themselves as such in censuses behind the Iron Curtain?

"they determined that millions crossed the Reich's area of ​​influence into the occupied eastern territories"??????

"occupied eastern territories" is not outside Reich influence by definition.

V.4 and V.6 is interpreted as the Jews the Nazis killed. THAT is where the other side of denial says the Jews went. You need to show otherwise.

Both sides of the aisle agree that Nazis killed significantly large numbers of Jews. Show me that in the KR.

Hans Frank as governor of the General Government was responsible for feeding the populations in the GG. Germans had to do this everywhere they occupied. The Nazis largely segregated Jews into their own areas. They had a pretty good idea on the numbers. We are not talking about any "crossed the Reich's area of ​​influence". Jews were compelled to go and stay where the Nazis put them - for the most part.

[Numar Patru]

This only makes sense if you think that it was the Germans' obligation to register where each Jew was under their rule, they were not obliged to do so

Say what now?

[curioussoul]

Careful records were kept at the Reinhard camps, but we learn in the top secret Globocnik report to Himmler from 1944 that all records pertaining to Aktion Reinhard were destroyed. In the MGK books on Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec, we also find significant evidence of record-keeping at these camps. So it's not like records never existed.

[TlsMS93]

I don't care what is or isn't interpreted in this report. Those who care about this are the same people who create code language or destroy evidence as a Deus ex machina for unanswered questions. This is even more problematic since this report would only serve Himmler and Hitler, so code language here makes no sense. Korherr himself denied that he recorded his figures of 1.274 million based on murdered Jews. If that's not enough, that's someone else's problem, not mine.

Who defines what is an area of ​​German influence? A region under the civil control of the Reich or under military control? There was a civil government and a military government in the occupied countries. I assume that the selections in the camps involved indicating who could be forced to work and who would continue on to be dropped off in regions without government control of the Reich. So outside the area of ​​influence of the Reich, I assume regions controlled by the military and clearly areas controlled by the enemy if they decided to go on their own.

I didn't say don't feed, I said register where each Jew was. Hans Frank himself said that they could not starve or poison them to solve this problem, so by demanding that they be deported from the General Government he would be agreeing to their total withdrawal from the Reich, which was also the goal of Hitler and the Foreign Ministry.

For the Holocaust to work, a conspiracy to hide documents and coded language is needed. Without this, it is impossible to prove anything.

[Numar Patru]

Who defines what is an area of ​​German influence? A region under the civil control of the Reich or under military control? There was a civil government and a military government in the occupied countries.

Bro, do you know like anything about this topic? The Reichskommissiaräte had civilian governments. They were also classically what would be called occupied countries. If there happens to be a day when Israel isn’t rolling tanks into the West Bank, the West Bank is still occupying Israel.

I assume that the selections in the camps involved indicating who could be forced to work and who would continue on to be dropped off in regions without government control of the Reich.

So in active military zones? How does that make any sense whatsoever? Dumping hundreds of thousands of Jews at or near the front at the very least means that the people doing so expect that those Jews will be killed. Or is the Wehrmacht supposed to feed them? Or maybe the Wehrmacht calls a “time out” and says, “Listen, Ivan, we’ve got hundreds of thousands of Jews here who can’t work. Would you mind taking them off our hands?”

Oh what fucking planet does that make any sense?

[TlsMS93]

Undersecretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Martin Luther declared that the Jews would be deported to the General Government provisionally and from there they would be taken to the occupied eastern territories. Did he mean that they would still be under German influence, including the Reichskomissariat? It is ambiguous. Did the Nazi laws apply where the German army was?

You forget that the area militarily controlled by the Wehrmarch was much larger than the front and that it was not under any Reichskomissariat and therefore was not in imminent danger. Furthermore, according to the Korherr report, 1.2 million of them would be in this condition, the other 1 million would be a disguise to indicate that it was the Soviets who evacuated them. Therefore, we are talking about 1.2 million from the General Government in these vast regions that were lost sight of in the Soviet counteroffensives and disappeared from the records for obvious reasons.

[Numar Patru]

Undersecretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Martin Luther declared that the Jews would be deported to the General Government provisionally and from there they would be taken to the occupied eastern territories. Did he mean that they would still be under German influence, including the Reichskomissariat? It is ambiguous. Did the Nazi laws apply where the German army was?

I have no idea what you're asking.

You forget that the area militarily controlled by the Wehrmarch was much larger than the front and that it was not under any Reichskomissariat and therefore was not in imminent danger. Furthermore, according to the Korherr report, 1.2 million of them would be in this condition, the other 1 million would be a disguise to indicate that it was the Soviets who evacuated them. Therefore, we are talking about 1.2 million from the General Government in these vast regions that were lost sight of in the Soviet counteroffensives and disappeared from the records for obvious reasons.

Here's a map of Nazi-controlled Europe at its greatest extent



Now, if the idea was to send these Jews from the General Government to the occupied eastern territories, presumably if the term is being used as it is in the Wannsee Protocol, and Luther was an attendee there, then this would be the Reichskommissariäte since Meyer and Leibbrandt were in attendance on behalf of Rosenberg, who was Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories. Everything to the east of the borders of the Reichskommissariäte would be under Wehrmacht control. While, yes, it's not all the front, the front was in flux, and the Wehrmacht was increasingly in retreat.

As I said before, anyone sending Jews into an active Wehrmacht region could not have believed they were going to be treated in any way other than shot. It beggars belief that anyone could do that and think they'd survive.