A New Revisionist Interpretation of Operation Reinhardt

[PrudentRegret]

It's a very very interesting turn of events that Believers are now trying to say John Ball was right about that being a transit camp. They fear the Transit Camp at the Malkinia Loop.

Bombsaway, do you concur with Nessie that this was the location of the Malkinia Transit Camp?

[bombsaway]

It's a very very interesting turn of events that Believers are now trying to say John Ball was right about that being a transit camp. They fear the Transit Camp at the Malkinia Loop.

Bombsaway, do you concur with Nessie that this was the location of the Malkinia Transit Camp?

After careful review, I must say I don't know where it was. And I believe the issue is irrelevant. I can concede to it being wherever you want, and it doesn't make your argument stronger, in a relative sense.

It's interesting you think I'm afraid of the transit camp being somewhere. I consider myself to be pretty objective about history; if you had convincing evidence refuting the mainstream story in a minor or major way I would be on your side I think. Instead what I see is more akin to the ravings of a madman.

[PrudentRegret]

It's a very very interesting turn of events that Believers are now trying to say John Ball was right about that being a transit camp. They fear the Transit Camp at the Malkinia Loop.

Bombsaway, do you concur with Nessie that this was the location of the Malkinia Transit Camp?

After careful review, I must say I don't know where it was. And I believe the issue is irrelevant. I can concede to it being wherever you want, and it doesn't make your argument stronger, in a relative sense.

It's interesting you think I'm afraid of the transit camp being somewhere. I consider myself to be pretty objective about history; if you had convincing evidence refuting the mainstream story in a minor or major way I would be on your side I think. Instead what I see is more akin to the ravings of a madman.

I mean, you are insisting a shunting engine brought the entire train to Treblinka Station specifically because you don't like the notion that this train rolled to a stop at this exact loop which contained the Transit Camp. If you didn't care you would have said "yeah I guess you are correct, trains from Warsaw would have taken the Malkinia Loop before coming to the stop at 'Malkinia'". Instead of saying that you opted to switch out the engine of the train even though there's no reason the Main Engine couldn't have brought the train to Treblinka station without stopping at Malkinia station all.

It obviously does matter where the Transit Camp was, maybe not exactly, but if the platform to the Transit Camp was along this loop somewhere and we know that transports from Warsaw took this loop before and as it was stopping then that is significant no matter how hard you want to pretend otherwise.

I consider myself to be pretty objective about history; if you had convincing evidence refuting the mainstream story in a minor or major way I would be on your side I think.

Well, mainstream story says Operation Reinhardt was the code-name for the extermination of the Jews. I've provided convincing evidence otherwise but I doubt you'll concede that. So you're just lying, you are going to defend the mainstream story even when presented compelling evidence contradicting it.

[bombsaway]

I mean, you are insisting a shunting engine brought the entire train to Treblinka Station specifically because you don't like the notion that this train rolled to a stop at this exact loop which contained the Transit Camp. If you didn't care you would have said "yeah I guess you are correct, trains from Warsaw would have taken the Malkinia Loop before coming to the stop at 'Malkinia'". Instead of saying that you opted to switch out the engine of the train even though there's no reason the Main Engine couldn't have brought the train to Treblinka station without stopping at Malkinia station all.

Dead wrong, I said that not because I don't like something, but because of witness evidence, which I quoted in my justification. I'll give it to you again:

"A transport usually consisted of 60 wagons; after it had arrived at the Treblinka railway station, it was divided into three parts, each with 20 wagons, which were gradually moved onto the ramp of the Treblinka extermination camp. This was done by a shunting steam engine, which came to the Treblinka railway station from Malkinia, specially for that purpose."

I also "conceded" that the train might very well loop. https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=268#p268 None of this matters to me though. Your speculation that Treblinka camp was in Malkinia, or that the Reinhardt Jews were processed there is only that, there's no direct evidence for it.

Well, mainstream story says Operation Reinhardt was the code-name for the extermination of the Jews. I've provided convincing evidence otherwise but I doubt you'll concede that. So you're just lying, you are going to defend the mainstream story even when presented compelling evidence contradicting it.

At best you've introduced uncertainty. To definitively prove Reinhardt did not encompass a mass killing operation (I think this is what you really mean) you have to show that there was no killing operation, or show documents specifically excluding killing activities.

[PrudentRegret]

That pretty clearly says that the shunting engine was what divided the train into parts of twenty at Treblinka station. There's nothing there to say the shunting engine brought all 60 wagons to Treblinka station at once.

I didn't think you conceded that the train may have traveled the loop on its way to the Malkinia stop, that has been noted.

[bombsaway]

That pretty clearly says that the shunting engine was what divided the train into parts of twenty at Treblinka station. There's nothing there to say the shunting engine brought all 60 wagons to Treblinka station at once.

I didn't think you conceded that the train may have traveled the loop on its way to the Malkinia stop, that has been noted.

"Within the orthodox narrative there would have been no absolute need for the train to stop at Malkinia for 20-25 minutes. So it could spend this time turning around and getting hooked up to a different locomotive that would take it to Treblinka."

My reading of the witness testimony is that another locomotive took the wagons down to Treblinka. I'll concede that maybe the testimony was unclear on that point. But if it was the same one it doesn't change much. If it looped same thing. The train gets to Malkinia, spends 20 minutes going around the loop, and then goes to Treblinka station. The specifics about how it got there exactly is uncertain for me.

The major point I would want to make to you is that my criteria for believing things to have happened or not is direct evidence. You've provided none for your assertion that Treblinka transit camp and Malkinia transit camp are one and the same. If you want me to go along with you, maybe you have to convince me that direct evidence isn't important when it comes to judging historical narratives to be valid or not.

[SanityCheck]

It's not just "mislabeled", nothing about this map indicates the location of "T-II," nothing about the map resembles that camp. It is highly notable that the first ever map of Treblinka, and the one that features in Weirnik's account, places the facilities on the Warsaw-Bialystok line which is right where Malkinia is. And that there is also reference to a "Malkinia transit camp" and the fact that Malkinia-Treblinka seem to be interchangeable in certain documents.

This your supposition.

By mislabeled I mean in your view. Weirnick says it's an extermination center, not some other kind of camp.

"In 1941–1942 there was a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street"
https://sztetl.org.pl/en/towns/m/982-ma ... -community

So Werinick, in your speculative history, is not talking about the Malkinia transit camp either, because it wasn't by the railroad. You must be imagining there was some other large camp there, I suggest you start digging along the tracks if you want to prove its existence.

Nobody has followed the references here to the putative Malkinia 'transit camp'. The sztetl.org page references

1) Danuta Czech's Kalendarium, which relied on Salmen Lewental's Birkenau Sonderkommando manuscript. Lewental was deported from the Zichenau district and the transport stopped in Malkinia junction but the manuscript is literally full of holes, i.e. words cannot be made out, and by the time the MS hints at a camp, Lewental has arrived at Birkenau (noting for example that some were taken to Auschwitz i.e. main camp evidently after selection). It's not a source for the existence of a transit camp at Malkinia in December 1942; it's also the *only* source that anyone has hitherto found for even the vague possibility of one, while Czech's interpretation ignores how Lewental's transport did not originate in Malkinia but from one of the ghettos in the Zichenau district.

2) an account from The Ringelblum Archive, cited to vol 3 of the Polish edition, which is vol 2 of the English edition. This account is dated 15 July 1941 and concerns a refugee who fled from Lodz via Warsaw to Bialystok in 1939, her husband leaving for Moscow in May 1941, while the witness somehow made it to Warsaw by July 1941. The volume of TRA is online here, jumping to p.95 of the online version: https://cbj.jhi.pl/documents/1029348/95/

There was evidently a no man's land on the Nazi-Soviet border in 1939, with the account clearly referencing 1939. The description is quite reminiscent of the pre-Kristallnacht cross-border expulsions from Germany to Poland in October 1938 that became a refugee concentration at Zbasyn. The account notes the erection of sheds or a pigsty in January 1940 at the Malkinia border crossing no man's land space.

So this second reference is not a reference to 1941-42 at all.

Further searching highlights the work of Polish assistant professor of geodesy and cartography Sebastian Rozycki, who has collaborated with the Treblinka Museum to produce spatial studies of both Treblinka I and Treblinka II. He has also researched the Malkinia camps and runs through the exact same evidence as the sztetl.org site. What is noteworthy is he refers to air photography confirming something of a camp in 1939-40 in the border zone/no man's land, but not in 1942.

The study here
https://www.academia.edu/23401637/Epizo ... 9Bwiatowej

is Google Translated for the section on the 'transit camp'

Transit camp for the Jewish population in Małkinia
The first piece of information from which we learn about the existence of the transit camp in Małkinia is the publication by Danuta Czech "Kalendarium chwil w KL Auschwitz"25. There is a record there of the arrival of two transports to the Auschwitz camp from the transit camp in Małkinia... These documents concern December 10 and 12, 1942. The first transport included approximately 2,500
men, women, and children. 524 men were selected from this group and sent to work in the camp. The rest were executed in the gas chambers. The second transport included 2,000 people, of whom only 422 were accepted to the camp, and the rest, as in the case of the first transport, were brutally murdered26.

Małkinia is also mentioned by one of the Auschwitz prisoners who arrived
in one of the aforementioned transports. His memories are not entirely coherent and unambiguous, and the phrase "transition camp for Jews" does not come from the author of the memoirs, but from those who compiled the memoirs.27 However, we would like to point out that Załmen Lewental, who came from Ciechanów, began his last journey on 17 November 1942 and arrived at Auschwitz only on 10 December 1942. Between these extreme dates, he stayed in places that could have been transit camps located in different towns.28 Information about the camp for the Jewish population located in Małkinia Górna is also shared by the native inhabitants of this town and its surroundings. They describe it as a facility organized "in the open air", in the period 1939-1940, along Nurska Street towards the east. Confirmation of this information, as well as obtaining additional information, was made possible by the accounts of people who passed through this informal camp, written in the years 1941-1942.29 In October and November 1939, Jews and Poles escaping from the German occupation often chose Małkinia as the last town on the German side of the border before reaching the territories under the jurisdiction of the Soviet Union. The analysed accounts repeatedly repeat the same pattern of events. After arriving at the site by train, on foot or in carts, the arrivals from various Polish cities, especially from Warsaw, were repeatedly subjected to meticulous inspections by the Germans. They were mainly looking for money, valuables and things of any material value30. In addition to the selfless help offered to the escapees by Poles31, there were also frauds, robberies and extortions committed by Polish citizens of various provenances32. Then, the escapees were directed to a strip of “no man’s land”. Unfortunately, even reaching Małkinia and leaving the General Government did not ensure safety. The border on the Soviet side was closed. It was also impossible to return to German territory. This situation forced the refugees to stay in a strip of "no man's land" for several days33 or weeks34. For some, this place became their grave35, while others managed to penetrate unnoticed to the Soviet side, thanks to hiring a guide. Every now and then, Russian border guards would formally or informally (15 minutes) open a border crossing36, and the storming wave of people would then rush eastwards as quickly as possible, making room for the constantly arriving new refugees. The "Dante's Hell" of that time was located between German and Soviet posts on the demarcation line on the newly established border. Its shape resembled a rectangle, the corners of which were border posts of both Soviet and German soldiers, located on the road to Nur and on the Małkinia-Białystok railway line37. It was fenced from the east and west with a fence and/or trestles with barbed wire. In the winter of 1939, on the strip of "no man's land" about 300-400 meters wide38, in forest thickets, fields, directly on the ground, in dugouts or primitive huts, there were about 2,000 people39. This number was maintained despite the fact that some people gradually managed to get to the Soviet side. It is impossible to give an estimated number of refugees who passed through the informal refugee camp in Małkinia. The main places where the people held there camped were fields located near border crossings and an unspecified clearing in the forest40. Another piece of information about the camp in Małkinia is included in the publication by Lechosław Herz "Puszcza Kamieniecka i Biała"41. We learn from it that during the occupation, the Jewish inhabitants of Brok were sent to a transit camp in Małkinia, where they died of cold and hunger. Unfortunately, the author does not place the described events in a specific time and place. He also does not provide the source on which he based the information in question.

Based on oral and written accounts, we can confirm the existence of a temporary camp in the "no man's land" strip in 1939. Aerial photographs of the area between the railway line and the road to Nur, taken in May 1940, also indirectly indicate the potential location of the camp in question. In our opinion, however, the existence of the above-mentioned camp should not be linked
with a possible transit camp for the Jewish population in Małkinia in 1942. In this case, neither the available documents nor the analysis of aerial photographs confirmed the existence of the camp. However, this does not mean that such a camp did not exist. Therefore, we leave this issue open for further researchers.

So Rozycki does not advance past the same two pieces of evidence, except an updated confirmation of the 1939-40 situation, which says nothing about 1942.

The rest of the academia.edu fragment documents in considerable detail the actual camp shown on some air photos, namely a branch of Stalag 333 at Malkinia, which was converted into a training camp for the Ostlegionen by the start of 1942, as is amply documented in the records of the Militaerbefehlshaber/Wehrmachtbefehlshaber im Generalgouvernement.

I pointed out these sources to Laurentz Dahl/Thomas Kues on the original CODOH forum about 15 years ago, based on Joachim Hoffmann's book on the Ostlegionen and confirmation from documents in the NARA RG 242 T501 version of the Wehrmachtbefehlshaber im GG records. Those are now online at NARA, the Bundesarchiv copies are also scanned and online, so there is zero room for doubt that there was an Ostlegionen training camp in Malkinia in 1942.

Rozycki's topographical study of Treblinka II co-authored with Edward Kopowa and Natalia Zalewska is online at the Treblinka Museum website, which also should make the Treblinka I topographical study available (fragments are also on Rozycki's academia.edu page). Further discussion of the Malkinia-Treblinka area should obviously take into account the work done by the local expert in cartography. At least the PDFs are copiable and thus translatable, even if they're in Polish.
https://muzeumtreblinka.eu/wp-content/u ... nka-ii.pdf

Carri on.

[PrudentRegret]

Based on oral and written accounts, we can confirm the existence of a temporary camp in the "no man's land" strip in 1939. Aerial photographs of the area between the railway line and the road to Nur, taken in May 1940, also indirectly indicate the potential location of the camp in question. In our opinion, however, the existence of the above-mentioned camp should not be linked with a possible transit camp for the Jewish population in Małkinia in 1942. In this case, neither the available documents nor the analysis of aerial photographs confirmed the existence of the camp. However, this does not mean that such a camp did not exist. Therefore, we leave this issue open for further researchers.

TLDR:

• There was a Transit Camp in the area I identified in May 1940, inside the Malkinia Loop
• The ariel photographs taken in May 1940 support that this was the location of the Transit Camp
• No ariel photographs of this area in 1942 I assume...
• Author disputes that this was the location of Malkinia Transit Camp but not with great justification

A formal Transit Camp would have most likely been constructed in 1941 to early 1942. It was definitely constructed before "T-II" because of the rumors and written reports of transports of Jews being sent there and killed, which no matter how much believers want to cope could not have referred to the ongoing construction of "T-II". In a similar vein, the Treblinka map geolocated the facility on the Warsaw-Bialystok line which would place it at this very location.

So Ariel photographs in 1940 would not dispute that this was the location of the Malkinia Transit Camp under the command of the SS. But we have confirmation of an "Informal" Transit Camp in the exact area I identified in 1940. That would also make it a likely candidate to become the "formal" transit camp under the command of the SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka by 1942.

[PrudentRegret]

What strikes me also is that one of the biggest criticisms of the Treblinka "Transit Camp" hypothesis is that it lacked any structures to shelter Settlers.

Rozycki seems to corroborate the view that shelters/huts were constructed for Settlers within the Malkinia Loop, pointing to the May 1940 Ariel photograph. It's significant that we find confirmation of shelters constructed specifically to shelter people undergoing resettlement in this area. So the "there was nowhere to shelter them at T-II" argument is undermined by the construction of shelter for settlers in this exact area in 1940.

Thanks SanityCheck for sharing!

[bombsaway]

Sanitycheck's info on Danuta Czech's Kalendarium makes me uncertain there was a transit camp at all in Malkinia during thie time Reinhardt was in full swing. I can't believe in something for which the direct evidence is unclear, and concur with the researchers who examined the documentary, witness, and photographic evidence, and found no sign of a camp there. As they said this doesn't mean that a camp didn't exist there, just that there's no good reason to believe it did.

In our opinion, however, the existence of the above-mentioned camp should not be linked
with a possible transit camp for the Jewish population in Małkinia in 1942. In this case, neither the available documents nor the analysis of aerial photographs confirmed the existence of the camp. However, this does not mean that such a camp did not exist. Therefore, we leave this issue open for further researchers.

[PrudentRegret]

They didn't even look at any 1942 ariel photographs?

[bombsaway]

They didn't even look at any 1942 ariel photographs?

According to my AI they did:

Yes, the authors did examine photographs from 1942 in this study. Specifically, the document mentions:

They analyzed aerial photographs taken by German reconnaissance planes on October 26, 1942. This is mentioned in a footnote discussing the airfield near Ugniewo, which was possibly used for calibrating German bomber sights.
The document includes an image (Image 9) showing an airfield in Biel in 1942, with concentric circles used for calibrating aircraft sights near Ugniewo.

Regarding the aerial photographs from October 26, 1942:

This is mentioned in footnote 12 of the document.
The footnote states: "Based on the interpretation of aerial photographs taken by German aviation on October 26, 1942. Interpretation by S. Różycki, M. Michalski, photographs in possession of the authors of the 'Supplement'."
This indicates that the authors had access to and analyzed these specific aerial photographs from late 1942.
The photos were used to identify features related to the airfield near Ugniewo.


Concerning Image 9 showing the airfield in Biel:

The image is captioned: "Airfield in Biel in 1942. In the upper left corner, concentric circles used for calibrating aircraft sights. The circles were located near the village of Ugniewo."
This image is specifically dated to 1942, providing visual evidence from that year.
The source is given as "NARA, RG373/GX13130", indicating it's from the National Archives and Records Administration.
The image shows both the airfield and the calibration circles, demonstrating German military activity in the area during 1942.

Not sure these were of the Malkinia area though. You have photos of that area from 1942?

[PrudentRegret]

Bombsaway, you are such a strong example of the failure mode of midwits with LLMs. You don't even read or digest what the LLM is telling you.

There is one photograph from 1942 pertaining to the "Field airport in Biel in 1942." That does not mean they reviewed 1942 aerial footage of Malkinia Station, and no I am not aware of any that exists.

[bombsaway]

Bombsaway, you are such a strong example of the failure mode of midwits with LLMs. You don't even read or digest what the LLM is telling you.

There is one photograph from 1942 pertaining to the "Field airport in Biel in 1942." That does not mean they reviewed 1942 aerial footage of Malkinia Station, and no I am not aware of any that exists.

Yes this is why I said, "Not sure these were of the Malkinia area though. You have photos of that area from 1942?" Maybe you missed that.

[Nessie]

Could Prudent Regret produce evidence from inside TII, to support his claim that it was only used to sort property?

Whether Malkinia was a transit camp, operational as such in 1942-3, is not evidence TII was a sorting, rather than death camp.

https://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm

"Amidst untold torture, we finally reached Malkinia, where our train remained for the night. The Ukrainian guards came into our car and demanded our valuables. Everyone who had any surrendered them just to gain a little longer lease on life."