Criticism of Jews as a Collective (Not Just as Individuals) is Ethical and Warranted

[Numar Patru]

I support affirmative action in the US context mainly from an economic standpoint but with some additional consideration of race. Most of the time, economically based affirmative action would have racially skewed outcomes because of economic inequality between races.

E.g., I think in college admissions, candidates from underrepresented minorities should receive special consideration and that a goal should be to have student bodies represent the overall population.

[Callafangers]

Mostly insults.

There’s actually a pretty extensive scholarly literature on whiteness in the US context. Jews are not considered white until after WWII and are the last major European immigrant group to be added to that grouping. Italians, Slavs, Greeks, etc., are considered white slightly earlier.

I am familiar with this, yes, 'whiteness' used to be more exclusive of a concept. So are you critical of the fact that whites have become more inclusive? This does not help your position. And again, who decides Jews are now 'white', especially given so many Jews vehemently reject this notion?

Some Jews protest being identified as whites, sure, but there’s little to suggest that most Americans, Jews and non-Jews, consider Jews to be white. It’s what Jews check on census forms unless they’re multiracial or Ethiopian.

So, your criteria comes down to what boxes are checked on census forms? This is essentially meaningless, then. I think whether or not a group fits under a certain identity is a balance of how they self-identify and how they are perceived by the larger collective they aim to identify with. Not only do Jews, as mentioned before, have a unique pattern of identifying as white only when it is convenient, but they also are rejected by a majority of whites who recognize and value their own 'whiteness' at all (that is, those who are aware of the more accurate history and relationship between Jews and the white nations they have occupied). The more white people become aware of this history, the more they will collectively reject Jews as 'white'. All in all, this suggests Jews are not white. They perhaps could have been, but they have not assimilated and have instead chosen to remain enemies in all of the nations they reside in.

For those unfamiliar, Judaism's rituals and traditions are heavily-centered around concepts of revenge and celebration thereof. They view the West as 'Edom' (as they did Rome, all collectively seen as an enemy) and some among it as 'Amalek', which they are explicitly commanded to physically eradicate as a race. According to some, the 'Nazis' (and hence, white people) revealed themselves as 'Amalek' thanks to the 'Holocaust'. Hence, the mass invasion of all white nations (with Jewish organizations and initiative at the absolute center of all of this) to eradicate the existence of white people as a whole.

To the extent that advantages accrue to white people in the US, they accrue to Jews as well.

This is correct, which is why Jews sometimes opt to identify as white. But when speaking of matters of accountability, Jews tend to separate themselves from 'whites'. Moreover, there is the issue of privilege and accountability specific to Jews and not to any whites. You still have not addressed this.

What I find curious is the tendency of some to try to exclude Jews from whiteness or to overemphasize Jews as a subset of white people. Do Jews identify more closely with other Jews? Certainly they do but I find it curious that this fact is focused on when virtually every other hyphenated group of white Americans does the same.

There is a gigantic book written on this matter which I have cited previously. It can be read here:

https://archive.org/stream/when-victims ... E_djvu.txt

(note: if you read the PDF version, disregard the color-coding which was not included by the original author and is poorly done)

Jews are the most ethnocentric group in Western society but it is not just their collective alignment that matters but also their collective ambitions which are more pronounced, more powerful, more focused, and more harmful than those of any other group. This is totally indisputable but you are not going to know that if you do not seek information and do some relevant reading, or at least try asking relevant questions, instead of dishing out insults.

Focus on a group looking for some negative behavior and you’ll find it if you look hard enough.

This is absolute nonsense and a cop-out, since some behaviors and patterns are demonstrated irrefutably with evidence, and others are not.

[Numar Patru]

Tl;dr

White genocide is a garbage theory believed only by racist morons. I’m not going to justify it by engaging with it, particularly as it has already gotten minority populations murdered.

You make a lot of allegations about how Jews identify without any evidence. Maybe start providing some?

Do white nationalists reject Jews as white? Who fucking cares what dirtbags think?

[Callafangers]

Tl;dr

White genocide is a garbage theory believed only by racist morons. I’m not going to justify it by engaging with it, particularly as it has already gotten minority populations murdered.

You make a lot of allegations about how Jews identify without any evidence. Maybe start providing some?

Do white nationalists reject Jews as white? Who fucking cares what dirtbags think?

You are in no position to request additional evidence when you ignore what has already been provided. Once again, this is clearly in violation of forum rules. You're being allowed a lot of leeway because I feel your behavior makes a statement in itself which is beneficial for readers to see and understand (I also am not comfortable doing moderation, for the most part, unless something becomes egregiously disruptive so as to diminish the presentation of the forum overall, such as the recent encounters with Eric Hunt).

As for "how Jews identify", here's an example worth considering (from a mainstream Jewish publication):

Are Jews white? Comfort in ambiguity is the answer

By Moshe Daniel Levine June 17, 2020

There’s something simultaneously ironic, funny, sad and fascinating when a student messages me asking if they are white.

Now this isn’t, of course, a question about physical colors, in which I’m no expert; any of my peers will attest to the fact that I wasn’t blessed with an eye for color schemes. Rather, they are asking a fundamental question about identity. One that has been discussed before and one that I feel will see a resurgence in the Jewish community as young Jews continue to navigate their strong Jewish identities alongside their allyship for just racial causes.

It’s simply not fair to say that Jews, or Ashkenazi Jews, are white. The nefarious groups that have historically claimed “whiteness” as a virtue have always excluded Jews to the point of persecution and even genocide. To call Jews white is to imply that Jews have always benefited from the same systems that have benefited the white community. And, from a historical perspective, this cannot be more false.

Without even talking about the horrors in Europe, it was common even in America to see neighborhood codes baring Jews as recently as 60 years ago. Proportionally, Jews continue to have the highest number of hate crimes committed against them, for the most part committed by groups that definitely do not think Jews are white. Given that much of our persecution, both historically and currently, is based on the fact that Jews aren’t seen as white, calling Jews white is an unreasonable claim.

Yet it is also not fair to say that Jews are people of color. When I take off my kippah, assuming no one knows my name is “Moshe Daniel Levine” or my profession is “rabbi,” I look like any other white dude. When I occasionally wear a hat, or go on runs without my kippah, I am certainly seen as a white person. If I find myself in a scenario that is hostile to Jews I can simply take off my kippah, switching from the very Jewish “Rabbi Daniel with a yarmulke” to the very white “Dan with a baseball cap.” Moreover, even as a Jew — many of the racist systems in place in our country’s zoning, policing, drug laws and more, affect Jews far less than they do people of color. Given that, in modern America, Ashkenazi Jews benefit from many of the systems that benefit white people, calling us people of color seems equally unreasonable as calling us white.

One of the greatest attributes of the historical Jewish community has been our ability to survive and thrive without the need for clear-cut definitions of belief. From an early stage, Jews have felt comfortable embracing spectrums and grey areas in philosophy, identity and law, without the need for the type of top-down legislation we see in many other religious communities. This point cannot be overstated. While other traditions, such as Christianity, were convening councils to decide on the “correct” answers to their deepest religious questions, Jewish leaders were proudly embracing debate, exclaiming in the Talmud that both “these and these are the worlds of the living God.”

Like much within the Jewish community, we need to be comfortable without clear-cut definitions. Ashkenazi Jews live somewhere between “white” and “people of color.” Call it white-passing, a spectrum, or whatever else you want to delineate that we are certainly not white but also somewhat benefit from whiteness. Perhaps our individual place on this spectrum depends on a number of factors, some in and some out of our control. If I decide to wear a kippah, or another clear Jewish identifier, maybe I get shifted a bit further away from white. If someone’s name is something that isn’t obviously Jewish, perhaps they get shifted more towards white.

Of course, rather than play this tedious game, we can just admit that it’s complicated. Or, as the Talmud so often concludes its unanswerable debates, let’s wait until Elijah comes and answers — Teiku.

https://forward.com/community/448930/ar ... he-answer/

So, in short, Jews should not be held accountable as whites ever, since Jews 'suffered because of whites'. But it's admitted that Jews also benefit from 'white privileges', since Jews are not "POC". Jews choose whenever they do or do not want to be 'white'. Wax on, wax off.

No mention of specific Jewish accountability nor Jewish privileges in this article, either, strangely...

Finally, your dismissal of white genocide is simply ignorant. Funny that no one denies that white birth rates are almost universally in decline as every major white nation accepts massive immigration into all major city centers, globally. Your denial of these indisputable facts is simply too ignorant to be worth rebutting further. Any honest, curious person can easily verify this as true (and primarily driven by Jewish organizations, over time).

[Numar Patru]

In case I haven’t been abundantly clear, let me be so now.

If you state that there is a white genocide under way — a statement that has gotten people killed — you are the scum of the fucking earth and are someone whom I wouldn’t piss on even if they had burst into flames.

Clear enough? I’m ignoring your posts from now on. I don’t associate with people who are so dismissive of other people’s security just because they aren’t white.

[Callafangers]

In case I haven’t been abundantly clear, let me be so now.

If you state that there is a white genocide under way — a statement that has gotten people killed — you are the scum of the fucking earth and are someone whom I wouldn’t piss on even if they had burst into flames.

Clear enough? I’m ignoring your posts from now on. I don’t associate with people who are so dismissive of other people’s security just because they aren’t white.

Hilarious, and typical of a mindset so thoroughly polluted with untruth that nothing but an emotional outburst remains.

[Callafangers]

I don’t associate with people who are so dismissive of other people’s security just because they aren’t white.

I have to add on the above, the people who you are referring to, who lack "security" - I presume you are talking about refugees - were put into that situation as a result of a series of destabilization efforts originating with the "War on Terror" which was initiated by a network of Jewish neoconservatives immediately following 9/11 in the US (which itself has an Israeli/Jewish hand that I won't discuss further, here). In other words, Jewish organizations and individuals:

Created the War on Terror
- This caused instability in the Middle East and, hence, millions of refugees
Promoted immigration into the West, from within
- This brought these same refugees into the West

The above very much understates the complexity and long history of the matter, such as what also happened with Libya and its impact on immigration into Europe (which Gaddafi himself warned about directly).

The bottom-line is that the people promoting mass immigration into Europe are either completely ignorant on the context (i.e. your situation) or are actively interested in advancing it (the Jewish position, broadly speaking).

None of what I think on the matter has anything to do with a lack of empathy toward brown people. In fact, the entire reason I got involved in politics (and eventually, to learning about Palestine/Israel/Jews) to begin with was due to heartbreak and rage at the sight of Iraqi children who had been killed. I have the same empathy to this day.

[Stubble]

Little in life irks me more that hearing 'fellow Whites' from the mouth of a jew followed by a diatribe on how privileged I've been to have my lot in life.

I used to poach to feed myself and my family. I grew up poor. Everything I've earned has been by the sweat of my brow.

My skin color allotted me nothing.

As others have previously mentioned, jews are White when it suits them.

[Numar Patru]

This is truly an exhibition, isn’t it?

[Archie]

In case I haven’t been abundantly clear, let me be so now.

If you state that there is a white genocide under way — a statement that has gotten people killed — you are the scum of the fucking earth and are someone whom I wouldn’t piss on even if they had burst into flames.

Clear enough? I’m ignoring your posts from now on. I don’t associate with people who are so dismissive of other people’s security just because they aren’t white.

You need to maintain a modicum of civility if you want to post here. Last warning.

[Numar Patru]

I’m done responding to this person.

[curioussoul]

White genocide is a garbage theory believed only by racist morons.

White dispossession is a sociological fact, not a theory. Whether you want to classify it as an outright genocide is another question. In most other contexts, it would be considered a genocide because Whites have no institutional protections nor is it even legal in many European countries to advocate for White interests.

Anyway, you're not abiding by the rules of the forum and you're completely ignoring most responses to your arguments while continuing to spam oneliner posts or emoji posts. You're not a serious person.

[Numar Patru]

Two questions

1) Can you define “dispossession” and/or provide a few examples?

2) The term “genocide” implies people dying. How many white people have died in this genocide?

[Stubble]

Current vocab guidelines state it is called 'White Erasure'. For examples, feel free to peruse the good ole interwebs.

https://thatparkplace.com/sweet-baby-in ... te-people/

https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=64307

A couple of examples.

The current definition of genocide does not have the killing part in the definition. Read it. What is happening in Europe and the US under the UN replacement migration agenda is by the UN definition of the word, genocide.

[TlsMS93]

See what a Brazilian author and Jewish critic said about them

“Now, we Brazilians want immigrants who end up assimilated into our environment, who become Brazilian, and not those who come to live among us in a ‘perfectly organized existence’, that is, forming a State within the State and offending our anti-racism with their invulnerable racism. It is precisely because we are against racism that we must combat Jewish racism. Obviously, we do not want these ‘living and thriving organisms’ within our country, preparing generations for the ‘enhancement of Judaism’. We want living and thriving organisms that prepare generations for the enlargement of Brazilianness. And we are within our rights as Brazilians”.

“The Jew will never assimilate. He will never adopt the habits and customs of other peoples. The Jew will remain a Jew under all circumstances”.

“It is not by any apparent contradiction that this people, which has always shown itself to be the most stubborn in preserving itself, has become the most internationalist people. Precisely because it is excessively original and personal, its genius leads it to attack what is most original and personal in the societies in which it lives, in order to replace it with a uniform type of society, from which the special traditions of each nation are excluded and in which each nation loses its specific character, leaving the Jew the strongest precisely because it maintains its own…”

“When Hitler, Goebbels and Rosenberg used the racial concept, they were doing nothing more than using the weapons of the Jewish people against the Jews themselves. Hitler merely proclaimed that the Germans are a superior race to the Jews. In this regard, Moses went to much greater extremes, when he announced that the Jewish people are of divine origin and that they are the people chosen by God and, therefore, sacred. Each Jew, in his own right, is personally sacred, and whoever offends a Jew, offends God himself! Even today, this continues to be tacitly maintained within the Jewish people.”

“That is why an impartial man, without harboring the slightest contempt for the Jews, who are indeed worthy of praise and notable for many reasons, can and should consider the presence of a large number of them among his people as a grave danger. It is not only the Jew, but what comes from the Jewish spirit that corrodes and decomposes the best of us in us.”

“Anti-Semitism is a sign of hope”

Gustavo Barroso “Brazil, Colony of Bankers”