A New Revisionist Interpretation of Operation Reinhardt

[Nessie]

To continue my reply, I have split PRs response to me (a huge post with many images) to make it easier to follow.

.....

Another piece of circumstantial evidence are the premature reports of an extermination camp at Treblinka, well before "Treblinka II" ever opened and allegedly received its first transport.

The newspaper report is from 11 July 1942, by all accounts before "T-II" even opened and received its first transport:

The situation of the Jews presents itself even worse. The matter of the Warsaw ghetto is well known. Hunger, death and diseases continually and systematically threaten the Jewish population. In the area of Lublin on the night of 23-24 March [1942] the Jewish population was deported. The sick and disabled were killed on the spot. All children aged 2-3 years from the orphanage, who numbered 108, were sent away from the city along with their nurses and murdered. Altogether 2,500 people were murdered that night, while the remaining 26,000 were sent to camps in Bełżec and Tremblinka [wywieziono do obozów w Bełżcu i Tremblince]. From Izbica Kujawska 8,000 people were deported in an unknown direction. Reportedly in Bełźec and Tremblinka the killing is going on with the help of poisonous gas [za pomoca gazów trujacych].

According to the Muzeum Treblinka website, the first transport to TII was 23 July 1942. The camp was being constructed from April 1942. A report from early July, about transports to Belzec, which had opened in March 1942 and TII, which opened 4 months later, that thinks TII had also started to take transports in early July, is not odd, or suspicious. It made a mistake. It is not circumstantial evidence of anything. You just think it is significant, because it gives you reason to doubt evidence that does not fit your desired narrative of property, rather people being sent to the camp.

Although "T-II" was not open according to historical accounts, we know by the accounts I have just learned about that the "Malkinia Transit Camp" was certainly operational and this time, and would have received transports of Jews and become the origin point of extermination rumors before T-II was even open. Thus, both Weirnik's map and the Dziennik Polski article suggest this Malkinia transit camp was known as "Treblinka."

No, that article made a mistake and believed that in the second week of July, both Belzec and TII were taking transports, whereas TII did not open for transports for another 2 weeks. However, from the evidence you post next, we know that whilst TII was not yet open for transports, Jews were being killed there and buried in mass graves.

This is not the only report of a "Treblinka death camp" before T-II was even opened, it goes back to May 1942!

“At that time, i.e. in late May and early June 1942, the clandestine press published reports on two camps in Treblinka: the labor camp and the death camp. The first reference to the killing center there is to be found in a text by Gutkowski entitled ‘The Scroll of Agony and Destruction,’ which probably constitutes the draft of an Oneg Shabbat press bulletin. In the entry dated May 29, 1942, we read: ‘There are two camps in Treblinka: a labor camp and a death camp. In the death camp people are not murdered by shooting (the criminals are saving ammunition), but by means of a lethal rod [in the Yiddish original: troytshtekn].’ This item, without mention of the ‘lethal rod,’ was printed on June 2, 1942 by the newspaper Yedies. The next issue of that paper, dated June 9, 1942, carried an article entitled ‘The Death Camp in Trenblinka [sic]’ In it we read:

‘A Pole who managed to bribe his way out of the camp relates: ‘I worked with the German personnel of the labor camp. The Poles present there were assigned the task of digging huge pits. The Germans brought a group of about 300 Jews every day. They were ordered to undress and get into the pit. The Poles then had to cover the pits with soil, burying the people there alive. After they finished their work, they were shot.’”

So the June 9, 1942 article on the "Death Camp in Trenblinka [sic]" could not be referring to the as-of-yet not opened "T-II." It is most likely referring to the Malkinia Transit camp which was also called "Trebinka". Likewise, claims that Jews were "sent to be gassed in Treblinka" already in March 1942 would pertain to rumors surrounding the transport of Jews to the already-existing Malkinia Transit camp that the Germans set up for Jews along Nurska street and, according to Wiernik, south of the main Warsaw-Bialystok line.

The report is that people, imprisoned in the TI labour camp, were being used to dig mass graves at TII and the Jewish labourers were then being killed and buried in those graves. Construction of TII started in April 1942, so reports from May and June, already had evidence to reasonably suspect TII was to be a death camp. Your suspicions are contradicted by the evidence you are presenting, which you are misinterpreting.

There's one another note from Nessies' source regarding the operation at Tluszcz:

On arrival they were disinfected in quarantine at 109 Leszno Street. A note preserved in the files of the JSS in Krakow, recording a message sent by a representative of the JSS for Kreis Warschau-Land, reports that of more than 800 Jews resettled from Tluszcz on 27 May 1942, only 582 people reached the quarantine section of the Warsaw ghetto, without any money or personal property.

Yes, the Malkinia Transit Camp (AKA Treblinka) would have been the point of confiscation of the property carried by settlers. What would that camp have done with the property? According to that protocol, they would have needed to turn that property over to the Reinhardt personnel which constructed a secret Jewish sorting camp for this purpose- at the camp we all call "T-II". Note that this was also the exact pattern of the Pabianice Sorting Camp:

Pabianice is first mentioned for the purpose of the central sorting site of the plundered Jewish property in a memo of the Ghetto Administration of 31 March 1942 on a forthcoming visit of the Kulmhof commandant. On 3 April 1942, Lange - and possibly already Bothmann [5b] - met in Litzmannstadt to discuss the transport of effects from Kulmhof with the Ghetto Administration. In the absence of the head of the office Hans Biebow, his deputy Friedrich Ribbe was to state the position of the Ghetto Administration that the Sonderkommando is responsible for the transport and has to use its own trucks to bring the effects of their victims to Pabianice or sent them by train (Document 89).

Lange maintained that "he has no vehicles at his disposal to drive luggage to Pabianice", which Ribbe - knowing that the Sonderkommando trucks travelled long distances to the Ghettos when deportations by train were not feasible - countered "to order the trucks on their way to the counties over Pabianice". The first such "load" to Pabianice was to go off on 9 April 1942 despite that it was "still not quite clear how the processing of the luggage shall proceed in Pabianice...since the storage rooms over there have to be first freed from machines" (Document 90). The earliest indication of a load with Jewish effects to Pabianice dates to 29 April 1942, when such truck had to refuel in the Ghetto Litzmannstadt. [6]

The "salvage sorting camp" (also called "special camp Pabianice", "work site Pabianice-Kulmhof", "Jewish working camp Pabianice-Dombrowa" and "camp Dobrowa") [7] was erected as "secret state affair" on the property of a former textile factory in the Litzmannstädter/Warschauer-Straße 127 in Pabianice

This image shows the location of the "salvage sorting camp" Pabianice relative to the transit camp:



Note the distance between where the property was confiscated- the transit camp, and the "secret state affair" Jewish camp which was a salvage camp. This would suggest the same pattern at Treblinka, with the Malkinia Transit Camp (AKA Treblinka) receiving the transports, having their property confiscated, and then delivered on the industrial-use rail to the secret Treblinka Jewish Work camp we all currently call "T-II."

Thus, the Malkinia Transit Camp was the original source of the rumor of a "Treblinka Extermination Camp." A secret Jewish work camp for salvaging personal property was opened at the location we all recognize as "T-II" in order to conduct Operation Reinhardt in the Warsaw District.

No, you have quoted a report which is the source of the information TII was to be death camp, before it opened. It came from a Pole who got out of TI, who saw that mass graves were being dug during the construction of TII, and that Jews used to dig the graves were being kiled and buried in them. That is evidence from which it was reasonable for the report to conclude TII's death camp status.

The chronology, using the evidence you provide is;

April 1942, construction begins on TII.
May and June 1942, reports emerge that mass graves are being dug at TII and Jews are being killed there, hence the evidence to believe it is a death camp.
Early July 1942, a report about Belzec and TII, mistakenly thinks TII is already taking transports, which do not start until the last week of July. There are already reports of Jews being killed at TII, and that gas is being used.

The property would have been confiscated at the Malkinia Camp, then transported to the Treblinka Work Camp (AKA T-II) on the rail I posted above, where it would have been sorted, deloused, clothing removed of the Jewish star, searched for hidden valuables, and the sorted and clean property was transported to Operation Reinhardt headquarters in Lublin. From there, the confiscated valuables and currency were transported by Globocnik to WVHA headquarters in Berlin, delivered to the Reichsbank by SS Capt. Bruno Melmer (who according to testimony claimed the entire operation was named after Fritz Reinhardt), and deposited into accounts owned by the Reich Ministry of Finance- the ministry of State Secretary Reinhardt.

Regarding the report of the closure of the ghetto in Tlusczc, your interpretation does not fit the evidence. The report is that Jews were sent to the Warsaw ghetto, and they arrived with no property. That just means the Nazis at Tlusczc stole everything, except the clothes the people were wearing. What happened to the rest of their personal possessions, is not known.

You speculate where it was sent to, as you suggest "settlers" went to Malkinia, where it was seized. How you conclude that from the report about Tlusczc, is beyond reason. You have no evidence from any witness or document that property was seized at Malkinia and it was then taken to TII for sorting. Your speculation does not even fit the evidence that you provide.

[PrudentRegret]

According to the Muzeum Treblinka website, the first transport to TII was 23 July 1942. The camp was being constructed from April 1942. A report from early July, about transports to Belzec, which had opened in March 1942 and TII, which opened 4 months later, that thinks TII had also started to take transports in early July, is not odd, or suspicious. It made a mistake. It is not circumstantial evidence of anything. You just think it is significant, because it gives you reason to doubt evidence that does not fit your desired narrative of property, rather people being sent to the camp.

This is absurd, a totally anachronistic account is ABSOLUTELY odd and suspicious. It's not even like the report was in August, and maybe they made a mistake in backdating the start of the operation to the beginning of July. They are reporting on the mass deportations to T-II before the transports even happened and before T-II was even open by all accounts. What was open was the Malkinia Transit Camp that the Germans built for deported Jews at the eastern part of Malkinia town, which would have been known as "Treblinka" by fact it was under the SS Special Command Treblinka. That would make the Malkinia transit camp AKA Treblinka the original subject of the extermination camp and gas chamber rumor.

The May and early June 1942 clandestine press published reports on two camps in Treblinka: the labor camp and the death camp are referring to the Treblinka Quarry and Treblinka Transit Camp in Malkinia.

None of those reports relate these deaths to the construction of T-II. The Pole you are citing said he was working with the personnel of the LABOR camp and did not describe these deaths in the context of a construction project at a different camp.

The Germans built many, many thousands of camps and structures throughout Poland. The notion that there would be reports of "Treblinka Death Camp" just based on a construction project is unfathomably stupid. Obviously they were referring to the operational transit camp which was receiving Jewish deportees.

There was an actual camp built for Jewish deportees and was receiving Jewish transports during this time, but you instead are claiming that these references are to a camp that had barely started construction? The more you think of it the more stupid it sounds Nessie. Why are there no clandestine reports of this real, operational transit camp built for Jewish deportees? There ARE reports of it, RIGHT HERE, and that camp was the subject of these rumors, not "T-II".

You also skipped over the detail that the transport which was subject to the gassing rumors was said to have been 3-24 March [1942].

The matter of the Warsaw ghetto is well known. Hunger, death and diseases continually and systematically threaten the Jewish population. In the area of Lublin on the night of 23-24 March [1942] the Jewish population was deported... Altogether 2,500 people were murdered that night, while the remaining 26,000 were sent to camps in Bełżec and Tremblinka [wywieziono do obozów w Bełżcu i Tremblince]. From Izbica Kujawska 8,000 people were deported in an unknown direction. Reportedly in Bełźec and Tremblinka the killing is going on with the help of poisonous gas [za pomoca gazów trujacych].

This deportation took place before construction of T-II had even started. But of course the Malkinia Transit Camp, which was built by the Germans specifically to receive Jewish deportees, was operational at this point and would have received this transport and therefore been the earliest subject of the "Treblinka gas chamber" rumors.

You speculate where it was sent to, as you suggest "settlers" went to Malkinia, where it was seized. How you conclude that from the report about Tlusczc, is beyond reason. You have no evidence from any witness or document that property was seized at Malkinia and it was then taken to TII for sorting. Your speculation does not even fit the evidence that you provide.

That transit camps throughout the General Government in Poland, and including the transit camps in the Warthegau, shared common administrative structure in that they were under the command of the SS and Police (SSPF) of that District. Furthermore, these transit camps were the point of confiscation of property carried by settlers under the camp command of the SS-Sonderkommando. The SS did not care about the name of the closest village in referring to a facility in documents, they referred to it by the SS Special Command in charge of the camp. Hence, "Treblinka I" was not "Poniatowo I" or "Poniatoto II."

And the Malkinia Transit Camp would be referenced as "Treblinka" in reports of transports from March 1942 being sent to the "Treblinka Death Camp".

[Nessie]

According to the Muzeum Treblinka website, the first transport to TII was 23 July 1942. The camp was being constructed from April 1942. A report from early July, about transports to Belzec, which had opened in March 1942 and TII, which opened 4 months later, that thinks TII had also started to take transports in early July, is not odd, or suspicious. It made a mistake. It is not circumstantial evidence of anything. You just think it is significant, because it gives you reason to doubt evidence that does not fit your desired narrative of property, rather people being sent to the camp.

This is absurd, a totally anachronistic account is ABSOLUTELY odd and suspicious. It's not even like the report was in August, and maybe they made a mistake in backdating the start of the operation to the beginning of July. They are reporting on the mass deportations to T-II before the transports even happened and before T-II was even open by all accounts.

A newspaper report from 11th July 1942, that is reporting on both Belzec and TII, makes a mistake about when TII was open and operational. Belzec was open on 23-24th March to take transports. Its killing operations had previously started. That, in July, by which time TII was open, the reporter thought that TII had been operational in March, is not as odd and suspicious as you think. You need to be odd and suspicious to fit with your beliefs.

You are also using evidence that TII did take mass transports of people, in your argument that it did not and instead it took property! That will be because you have no relevant evidence.

What was open was the Malkinia Transit Camp that the Germans built for deported Jews at the eastern part of Malkinia town, which would have been known as "Treblinka" by fact it was under the SS Special Command Treblinka. That would make the Malkinia transit camp AKA Treblinka the original subject of the extermination camp and gas chamber rumor.

The May and early June 1942 clandestine press published reports on two camps in Treblinka: the labor camp and the death camp are referring to the Treblinka Quarry and Treblinka Transit Camp in Malkinia.

That also explains the mistake. The transports that the reporter thought were going to TII, went to Malkinia instead, and likely elsewhere after that. That does not therefore mean TII is the camp at Malkinia, rather than the one near to TI (Quarry).

None of those reports relate these deaths to the construction of T-II. The Pole you are citing said he was working with the personnel of the LABOR camp and did not describe these deaths in the context of a construction project at a different camp.

From what you quoted;

"At that time, i.e. in late May and early June 1942, the clandestine press published reports on two camps in Treblinka: the labor camp and the death camp"
"...the entry dated May 29, 1942, we read: ‘There are two camps in Treblinka: a labor camp and a death camp."

TII's construction started in April 1942. The two camps at Treblinka will be TI and TII. The poles already knew about Belzec, so when they get reports a camp is being used to kill people;

"In the death camp people are not murdered by shooting (the criminals are saving ammunition), but by means of a lethal rod..."

TII is then referred to as a death camp. It is not yet taking transports, but there is evidence it is being used to kill people. On 2nd June 1942;

"A Pole who managed to bribe his way out of the camp relates: ‘I worked with the German personnel of the labor camp. The Poles present there were assigned the task of digging huge pits. The Germans brought a group of about 300 Jews every day. They were ordered to undress and get into the pit. The Poles then had to cover the pits with soil, burying the people there alive. After they finished their work, they were shot.’”

The report comes from a Pole who was at the labour camp, so TI, which was used as a penal/labour camp for Polish prisoners. The reference to digging huge pits means the reference is to TII. Polish rail workers reported seeing excavators at TII when it was being constructed, every person who worked inside the camps refers to the pits, outlines consistent with pits show in the 1944 aerial photo of the camp and archaeological surveys have found evidence of them.

The Germans built many, many thousands of camps and structures throughout Poland. The notion that there would be reports of "Treblinka Death Camp" just based on a construction project is unfathomably stupid. Obviously they were referring to the operational transit camp which was receiving Jewish deportees.

You are not reading your sources, which base the "notion" that there was a death camp at Treblinka, because of reports of Jews being killed there. There are not "just" basing their "notion" on the camp being constructed. They specifically reference Jews being killed and how they think they are being killed.

There was an actual camp built for Jewish deportees and was receiving Jewish transports during this time, but you instead are claiming that these references are to a camp that had barely started construction? The more you think of it the more stupid it sounds Nessie. Why are there no clandestine reports of this real, operational transit camp built for Jewish deportees? There ARE reports of it, RIGHT HERE, and that camp was the subject of these rumors, not "T-II".

No, I said the report about transports to TII and Belzec, was wrong about TII.

You also skipped over the detail that the transport which was subject to the gassing rumors was said to have been 3-24 March [1942].

I did not skip over that, I clearly said it was wrong! You attach great significance to that, as if reports would normally be error free! I see it is normal for reports. They make mistakes, get mixed up.

Remember, you are trying to evidence TII took people, not property and that it was a death camp. The best evidence you have are reports that it was taking people and it was a death camp. Why are you not showing me reports of property being taken to TII?

The matter of the Warsaw ghetto is well known. Hunger, death and diseases continually and systematically threaten the Jewish population. In the area of Lublin on the night of 23-24 March [1942] the Jewish population was deported... Altogether 2,500 people were murdered that night, while the remaining 26,000 were sent to camps in Bełżec and Tremblinka [wywieziono do obozów w Bełżcu i Tremblince]. From Izbica Kujawska 8,000 people were deported in an unknown direction. Reportedly in Bełźec and Tremblinka the killing is going on with the help of poisonous gas [za pomoca gazów trujacych].

This deportation took place before construction of T-II had even started. But of course the Malkinia Transit Camp, which was built by the Germans specifically to receive Jewish deportees, was operational at this point and would have received this transport and therefore been the earliest subject of the "Treblinka gas chamber" rumors.

Hence, the transports reported to have gone to TII did not go there in March. The July report made a mistake. But, in July, there was evidence for the reporter believe TII was a death camp and Belzec was operating in March 1942. The evidence that has been gathered since, mean that the rumours of gassings were found to be true.

You are trying to use reports of mass transports, killings and gassings as evidence TII did not take mass transports and instead sorted property. Why?

You speculate where it was sent to, as you suggest "settlers" went to Malkinia, where it was seized. How you conclude that from the report about Tlusczc, is beyond reason. You have no evidence from any witness or document that property was seized at Malkinia and it was then taken to TII for sorting. Your speculation does not even fit the evidence that you provide.

That transit camps throughout the General Government in Poland, and including the transit camps in the Warthegau, shared common administrative structure in that they were under the command of the SS and Police (SSPF) of that District. Furthermore, these transit camps were the point of confiscation of property carried by settlers under the camp command of the SS-Sonderkommando. The SS did not care about the name of the closest village in referring to a facility in documents, they referred to it by the SS Special Command in charge of the camp. Hence, "Treblinka I" was not "Poniatowo I" or "Poniatoto II."

That is not evidence TII was a property sorting camp. Why do you not use the evidence from anyone who worked inside TII? Plenty of those witnesses speak to property being sorted.

And the Malkinia Transit Camp would be referenced as "Treblinka" in reports of transports from March 1942 being sent to the "Treblinka Death Camp".

Why? The reports are from after construction on TII had started and when there were already reports of Jews being killed there.

[PrudentRegret]

Moving on, was Sobibor camp called something else in documents?

Both Himmler and Oswald Pohl in documents refer explicitly to a "Transit Camp Sobibor" (Durchgangslager Sobibor). Of course the mainstream says this was a codeword. But Sobibor was also the name of the SS-Sonderkommando in command of the camp:

SS-Sonderkommando Sobibor
An die Bekleidungswerke
Lublin, Chopinstrasse 27
Sobibor , den 16 April 1943.
(Am 16.04.1943 wurden an die Bekleidungswerk, Lublin, Chopinstrasse 27, zum
Versand gebracht).
16,800 tablespoons, 9,000 teaspoons, 7,700 forks, 5,200 knives, 6,400 pairs of
scissors, 9,650 brushes, 12,800 pairs of glasses, 5,000 combs, 2,600 shaving brushes,
1,000 toothbrushes, 2,000 hair shavers

The name of the command is SS-Sonderkommando Sobibor so Pohl and Himmler refer to a "Transit Camp Sobibor." Furthermore note this document pertains to the transport of sorted property to the headquarters of the SS Fur and Clothing Works at Lublin in Chopinstrasse 27- the central warehouse of Operation Reinhardt, proving also the property-exploitation purpose of Sobibor as part of Operation Reinhardt.

I mean to say you think he is a big time liar. Witnesses can be mistaken about things but not lying. That's a whole other level of unreliability.

Right, witness testimony is already regarded as an unreliable form of evidence, but combine that with the fact the testimony of events years after the fact under the auspice of Soviet courts and investigation compounded by a latent motivation of witnesses to implicate their occupiers- leaning on cross-pollinated accounts of wartime rumors, and witness testimony reaches a whole additional level of unreliability. But witness testimony is literally the only form of evidence you have to work with, so you have to pretend it's gold when it's shit.

Of course I am aware of the testimony you have posted, and I have already said that the only evidence that ties what we call "T-II" to have been the destination of ~700,000 people is witness testimony, which is not a good body of evidence to support the claim.

Judge Lukaszkiewicz produced many more witnesses than that in attesting to the fact that hundreds of thousands of prisoners were gassed in Bath And Disinfection I at Majdanek, and even today the Majdanek Museum admits nobody was gassed in that facility. As I have posited that the errors in interpretation of the economic use action at Majdanek also applied to the secret camp we call "T-II", that would also imply that same judge interviewing "Treblinka" witnesses were also wrong just like they were all wrong at Majdanek. Witness testimony is just unreliable. And of course Mattogno deals with each in detail, but one thing that is obvious is that these station workers were not actually privy to the operation, and their conclusion is based on "I was never allowed near the camp, but one time I took a peek and I saw...", rumors, and most certainly cross-pollinated accounts.

What is most important is contemporary documentation and reporting, which points towards a transit camp in Malkinia in 1942 which would have been the origin of rumors of a "Treblinka Extermination Camp." Those rumors later transitioned to center on the Treblinka Sorting Camp which would have been responsible for sending and receiving transports of property, delousing, sorting and storing large volumes of personal property at the camp. This would have been mistaken by eyewitnesses as an extermination operation, which is the exact same mistake made at Majdanek, involving the same investigators, the same SS initiative "Operation Reinhardt" and the same SS Fur and Clothing Works.

[bombsaway]

Moving on, was Sobibor camp called something else in documents?

Both Himmler and Oswald Pohl in documents refer explicitly to a "Transit Camp Sobibor" (Durchgangslager Sobibor). Of course the mainstream says this was a codeword. But Sobibor was also the name of the SS-Sonderkommando in command of the camp:

What I'm saying is are there documents were Sobibor is called something other than Sobibor? Just like how Treblinka 3 (or whatever you want to call it) was called Malkinia transit camp in a document, which you posted. So I don't think your comparison checks out. There's evidence that the camp in Malkinia was called Malkinia transit camp. I'm still not seeing a single piece of evidence it was called Treblinka.

The big tell about the flaws in your method is your declaration of total victory before even investigating all the primary sources. From the document I posted

In 1941–1942 there was a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street. According to memories, it was under the open sky[1.9]. It is known that terrible conditions prevailed there, and people stayed in pits dug in the frozen ground.[1.10].

There's footnotes, why didn't you follow them? On the surface you are trying to rewrite history in a significant way. If the holocaust was overturned it would be an enormous historical event in and of itself. My sense is that you're not giving your mission nearly the seriousness that it deserves.

Judge Lukaszkiewicz produced many more witnesses than that in attesting to the fact that hundreds of thousands of prisoners were gassed in Bath And Disinfection I at Majdanek, and even today the Majdanek Museum admits nobody was gassed in that facility. As I have posited that the errors in interpretation of the economic use action at Majdanek also applied to the secret camp we call "T-II", that would also imply that same judge interviewing "Treblinka" witnesses were also wrong just like they were all wrong at Majdanek. Witness testimony is just unreliable. And of course Mattogno deals with each in detail, but one thing that is obvious is that these station workers were not actually privy to the operation, and their conclusion is based on "I was never allowed near the camp, but one time I took a peek and I saw...", rumors, and most certainly cross-pollinated accounts.

This is kind of silly, considering the context of our recent discussion, which is whether there was a camp in Malkinia called Treblinka. You reiterating Mattogno's arguments about secrecy within the camp itself doesn't help you here. The rail workers confirm the Jews went down a separate recently built track, with Malkinia being a transfer point.

As for Majdanek, my expectation would be there would be substantial differences in the witness testimony regarding that camp vs BTS/Chelmno/Auschwitz. I'm not saying I don't believe what you're saying is possible, but you've demonstrated in my mind a high level of incompetence, so I have my doubts about things you say. Why don't you start by posting a perpetrator testimony alluding to gassings of hundreds of thousands at Majdanek. I can provide these for the other camps. W regards to Chelmno, German documents themselves specify 100,000 killed.

[PrudentRegret]

This is kind of silly, considering the context of our recent discussion, which is whether there was a camp in Malkinia called Treblinka. You reiterating Mattogno's arguments about secrecy within the camp itself doesn't help you here. The rail workers confirm the Jews went down a separate recently built track, with Malkinia being a transfer point.

The workers don't "confirm" anything, they provide testimony years after the fact of their interpretation of rail traffic to a small spur that served a Quarry and a Sorting camp. There is no documentation whatsoever of a transfer and shunting operation of hundreds of thousands of settlers from Malkinia to "T-II", there is only years-after-the-fact inference of the purpose of the rail traffic by station workers who admit they were not allowed near or inside the camp.

Judge Lukaszkiewicz concluded based on his investigation that hundreds of thousands were gassed at Majdanek, mostly in Bath and Disinfection I. So his interview of these witnesses doesn't confirm anything, it's pure idiocy to give witness testimony that much weight when it is time after time proven to be so fallible, even given the exact same investigator who failed to reach truthful conclusions in his investigation of other camps.

German "perpetrators" confessed to the Katyn Forest massacre under Soviet custody. False testimony and confessions are very common especially under wartime conditions, you are giving way too much weight to evidence that is fundamentally unreliable. The lack of contemporary reports and the lack of contemporary documents are glaring.

For instance, by far the most conspicuous part of the Treblinka operation would have been the cremations, which would have required the ungodly combustion of an impossible quantity of wood in this small camp. But none of them mentioned the 24/7 forest-fire-size pyres! They, like, saw a Jew get thrown out of a wagon one time.

You are frankly an idiot if you think this testimony aligns with what they would have witnessed if the mainstream is right about what happened about Treblinka. There would have been many contemporary reports of a 24/7 forest fire right outside Malkinia, and witnesses surely would have considered that to have been the most important and conspicuous feature of what they witnessed. But it goes entirely without mention in any contemporary reports and all the post-hoc testimony you have provided! Not a single mention of fire or smoke, despite over a hundred days of daily cremation of at least several thousand people. Or, for that matter, the delivery of mass quantities of wood, or even the transport of gravel and supplies to and from the quarry.

They misinterpreted, either accidentally or willfully, the purpose of the rail traffic serving those camps just like witnesses misinterpreted the purpose of the economic operation at Majdanek.

[PrudentRegret]

Bombsaway logic:

• The May/June 1942 reporting of an "Extermination Camp in Treblinka" receiving transports of Jews deported from ghettos is not related to the Jewish Transit Camp in the area which received Jews deported from ghettos, it's related to the as-of-not-yet constructed "T-II" camp which hadn't opened or received a single transport.
• The underground intelligence was so good they were able to predict the operation of an extermination camp before it even happened or was even constructed!
• But, their surveillance was so bad that nobody thought to mention anything about the daily cremation of several thousand people next to a major civilian rail and in the immediate vicinity of several villages.
• The station workers do not attest to any details of the operation they must have observed if it actually happened, but they are SURE that the trains going to "T-II" and the quarry were ALL totally FULL of Jews to be exterminated. That proves it! But oops, the station workers forgot to mention anything about the 24/7 forest-fire they would have witnessed if this had actually happened. And this massive shunting operation of hundreds thousands of people 8km away somehow escapes any reference whatsoever in any documents.

[bombsaway]

Bombsaway logic:

• [1] The May/June 1942 reporting of an "Extermination Camp in Treblinka" receiving transports of Jews deported from ghettos is not related to the Jewish Transit Camp in the area which received Jews deported from ghettos, it's related to the as-of-not-yet constructed "T-II" camp which hadn't opened or received a single transport.
  [2] The underground intelligence was so good they were able to predict the operation of an extermination camp before it even happened or was even constructed!
  [3] But, their surveillance was so bad that nobody thought to mention anything about the daily cremation of several thousand people next to a major civilian rail and in the immediate vicinity of several villages.
  [4] The station workers do not attest to any details of the operation they must have observed if it actually happened, but they are SURE that the trains going to "T-II" and the quarry were ALL totally FULL of Jews to be exterminated. That proves it! But oops, the station workers forgot to mention anything about the 24/7 forest-fire they would have witnessed if this had actually happened. And this massive shunting operation of hundreds thousands of people 8km away somehow escapes any reference whatsoever in any documents.

1. Newspapers are not very reliable sources of information.

2. I think there were quite a few people who through labor or administrative assignments knew about the extermination process, and it's very possible they talked about it, and that trickled down to the Polish Underground and eventually the Newspaper (by the time it got there it was third of fourth hand knowledge, so further reduction in quality).

3. How do you know there wasn't? If I showed you testimonies would that change your opinion on anything?

4. How do you know they didn't report anything about cremation? If I showed you testimonies would that change your opinion on anything?

[bombsaway]

German "perpetrators" confessed to the Katyn Forest massacre under Soviet custody.

Show me some testimony then. Did anyone testify at Nuremberg?

The workers don't "confirm" anything, they provide testimony years after the fact of their interpretation of rail traffic to a small spur that served a Quarry and a Sorting camp. There is no documentation whatsoever of a transfer and shunting operation of hundreds of thousands of settlers from Malkinia to "T-II", there is only years-after-the-fact inference of the purpose of the rail traffic by station workers who admit they were not allowed near or inside the camp.

I'm going to go through this bolding things relevant to your contention that the Jews transited into a camp in Malkinia. These interviews were conducted immediately post-war, I don't know if you were suggesting "years after the fact" meant like the 60s or 70s.

Wladyslaw Chomka

Born 1893

Senior Track Worker with the Polish State Railways

Interviewed on November 16, 1945, in Treblinka by Judge Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz

I have been working on the railways since 1929. The part of the railway I supervise stretches from Malkinia as far as the second kilometer after the Treblinka station in the direction of Kosow.

I can vividly remember that in July 1942, a telegram came to the Treblinka station master from the Railway Head Office in Warsaw informing us that as of July 22, a permanent back and forth train would be running between Warsaw and Treblinka, consisting of 58 freight wagons and three carriages. According to the telegram, the train was to transport residents of Warsaw, who because of over-population in the city, would settle in Treblinka. Being aware of the local conditions, we were surprised as to the purpose of sending people to Treblinka, since there were no proper accommodation for them.

In reality, from July 23, 1942, onwards, transports of Jews started to arrive, at first from the direction of the Malkinia railway station, and later also from Siedlce. The highest frequency of transports lasted more or less until Christmas Day, but there was a break of two or three weeks, a short time after the first transports had arrived. During the peak period, there were from two to three transports daily without a break. After the New Year's Day, the frequency of the transports was not very high.

One day, while I was in a steam engine that was moving wagons full of Jews onto the camp's ramp, I was able to observe people being thrown out of the wagons. Immediately after the wagons were emptied, the people were ordered to hand over their luggage, the men were separated from the women, and they were ordered to strip naked. After a while, one could hear deafening screams, simultaneously an orchestra started to play and one could hear the noises of a hammer striking a piece of iron. After some time, all went quiet.

Fig 17 Treblinka Ramp 2002

Treblinka Camp Ramp July 2002 (Chris Webb Private Archive)



Kazimierz Gawkowski

Born 1899

Points Man with the Polish State Railways

Interviewed on November 21,1945, in Treblinka by Judge Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz

From 1926, until now, I have been working continuously as a railway employee at the Treblinka railway station. If I remember correctly from the beginning of July 1942, until New Year's Day 1943, railway transports of Jews arrived without a break.

A transport usually consisted of 60 wagons; after it had arrived at the Treblinka railway station, it was divided into three parts, each with 20 wagons, which were gradually moved onto the ramp of the Treblinka extermination camp. This was done by a shunting steam engine, which came to the Treblinka railway station from Malkinia, specially for that purpose.

There were two German railwaymen permanently employed at the Treblinka railway station dealing with these transports and with their delivery to the camp. The personnel of the trains with Jews consisted of Ukrainians, or German Gendarmerie under the command of Gestapo men. They shot at the wagons whenever the transported Jews attempted to escape. One day, so many people were killed in this way at the Treblinka railway station, that later four flat wagons were filled with the corpses.

Since I traveled in a shunting steam engine to the camp several times, I know how individual parts of the transport were moved onto the camp ramp. When the steam engine moved the wagons onto the ramp, it moved back to the gate, with only Ukrainians, SS-men and the Jewish labourers from the camp remaining on the platform. The people were immediately ordered to leave the wagons, but all their possessions and suitcases had to be left on the platform.

All the people were sent behind a barbed-wire fence, intertwined thickly with branches, so that one could not see what was happening in there. At that time, Jewish labourers, two for each wagon, cleared the wagons of the corpses, any remaining bundles and feces. After some time, one could hear screams, which lasted for a while and then died out.

There was a fake railway station built at the camp ramp with a fake clock and various notices e.g. 'Ticket Office,' First Class and Second Class Waiting Room,' Railway Dispatch' and so on. I suppose this was done in order to make the victims believe that it was an ordinary labour camp rather than an extermination camp.

Railway transports arrived at the Treblinka station from the direction of Siedlce and from Malkinia. Each wagon usually consisted of more than 100 people, which I can remember because the number of people in each wagon was written on the wagon's doors in chalk.

Fig 20 Treblinka Station Area 2002002457

Treblinka Station Area July 2002 (Chris Webb Private Archive)


Jozef Kuzminski

Born 1909

Station Master Treblinka - Polish State Railways

Interviewed on October 16, 1945, in Siedlce by Judge Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz

At the beginning of January 1943, I was transferred to the Treblinka railway station, where I was to work as a station-master. I worked there until the arrival of the Red Army.

Because of my work at the Treblinka railway station, I know exactly what the procedure for a transport was from its arrival at the Treblinka railway station. The train's arrival was announced in a phone call from Siedlce or Malkinia, depending on the direction from which it was coming. It was done with a code, which the Polish personnel did not know, but it was clear that when the announcement was made with a code, what was meant was a transport of Jews.

i am completely certain about the transports from Greece and Belgium, since they were completely different from ordinary transports from Poland. They usually arrived in locked freight wagons, under the supervision of armed guards - Ukrainians and Lithuanians, whereas the foreign transports arrived in completely different conditions. These trains consisted of Pullman carriages, with each passenger holding a ticket and having a lot of luggage; there were luggage wagons in the train.

As for the transport from Greece, I had ticket stubs (their spines) left from the passenger tickets that had been issued - these stubs went missing at the Treblinka railway station during military operations. These tickets were issued to 6,500 people, since I specially checked the number. As for the transport from Belgium, I am also absolutely certain, since I talked to the people on the train and learnt from them where they were coming from. It is necessary to explain that people from foreign transports were able to leave their train freely at stations and they were confident that they were going to a labour camp.

After the uprising, during which the residential huts, chambers*, and a fuel depot were burnt down, the liquidation of the camp was started. They began to transport dismantled huts away - those that had not been burnt down, diggers and the contents of the storehouses, and so in the spring of 1944, there were only three Ukrainians left in the camp, whereas the area of the camp itself had been ploughed and sown with various plants. These Ukrainians escaped before the arrival of the Red Army.

* The gas chambers were not destroyed during the uprising.

treblinka station area 2005047

Treblinka Station Area 2005 (Chris Webb Private Archive)

These are the ones that mention Malkinia, I selected testimonies where it was clear the transports were coming into Treblinka from Malkinia. From your perspective, the only explanation for this is that they were instructed to say these things. That's possible, but it's not an evidenced position.

There's also other testimonies I found from this site, https://www.zapisyterroru.pl/dlibra/pub ... DJ2NTsydW0

You can see this one is from a railway worker who reports "there was always a smell of burning in the air and you could see a glow in the sky at night."

It took me about 5 minutes to find this. You're trying to change history, but you seemingly can't do the bare minimum of research or don't have the competency to do so.

[PrudentRegret]

I said CONTEMPORARY REPORTING. There was CONTEMPORARY REPORTING of an extermination camp at Treblinka before "T-II" even opened, there was small reporting of the largest cremation operation in human history years AFTER the operation, but what is missing are any actual reports of this happening while it was allegedly happening. None of the testimony you linked mentioned it, that's not to say nobody claimed to witness cremations years after the fact.

And the testimony that's there is no even close to the magnitude of the operation. It wouldn't be a "smell of smoke" it would be a clearly visible 24/7 forest fire that nobody reported on while it was happening and nobody describes in detail in the testimony you provided either.

You are saying that T-II was under such scrutiny that it was pegged as an extermination camp while it was under construction, but there are 0 reports of the largest cremation operation in history while it was happening, and all of the witness testimony you linked which you found so convincing does not even breath a word about would have been the most conspicuous thing about the operation.

[bombsaway]

I said CONTEMPORARY REPORTING. There was CONTEMPORARY REPORTING of an extermination camp at Treblinka before "T-II" even opened, there was small reporting of the largest cremation operation in human history years AFTER the operation, but what is missing are any actual reports of this happening while it was allegedly happening. None of the testimony you linked mentioned it, that's not to say nobody claimed to witness cremations years after the fact.

And the testimony that's there is no even close to the magnitude of the operation. It wouldn't be a "smell of smoke" it would be a clearly visible 24/7 forest fire that nobody reported on while it was happening and nobody describes in detail in the testimony you provided either.

You are saying that T-II was under such scrutiny that it was pegged as an extermination camp while it was under construction, but there are 0 reports of the largest cremation operation in history while it was happening, and all of the witness testimony you linked which you found so convincing does not even breath a word about would have been the most conspicuous thing about the operation.

Again quick research reveals this https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... #_ftnref95

Contrary to a rather wild claim by Mattogno, the Polish underground also reported on the open air cremations at the death camps.[118] It takes a special effort to ask in regard to open-air cremations at Treblinka “how does it happen that there is no mention of this in any of the reports of the Polish resistance movement?”[119], and not realise that your own source spells it out[120] while the standard work on the Reinhard camps quotes the same point.[121] But apparently that is the standard of research and level of accuracy that Mattogno thinks is acceptable when discussing this issue.

So go through the sources and tell me what you think. I shouldn't be doing this research for you, and you've been proving your lack of competency/seriousness to me throughout this convo so I'm just humoring you at this point.

Still waiting on that testimony regarding Katyn btw, ( I think there was one from a German perp, at a Leningrad trial, I believe and afterwards he recanted his testimony saying he was forced to testify, while in the much more draconian and unscrupulous Soviet justice system). Katyn is another big L for revisionists IMO

[PrudentRegret]

I am aware of those sources, you don't know HolocaustControversies blustering when you see it don't you? None of the sources they reference are contemporary accounts of the cremation operation. One mentions burning trash, which would actually align with my hypothesis of the purpose of the camp. So there's a contemporary account attesting to one of the purposes of this camp, which would have been the destruction of property deemed useless to Operation Reinhardt. And Globocnik reported that this was accomplished as part of the operation as well.

Of course Mattogno dealt that as well:

This, then, is the “evidence” which according to Terry “it takes a special effort” not to find so overwhelmingly persuasive as to never question the lack of contemporary reports concerning the alleged mass burning of corpses at Treblinka: one source which does not speak of cremations at all; and another, written several weeks after the months long “burning action” supposedly was completed, which merely relates, second-hand, that such an incident reportedly occurred. A special effort, indeed.

And it goes without mention by the star witnesses you referenced, who didn't think to talk about the 24/7 forest fire which would have been the most conspicuous thing anybody in the entire area had seen before. Or for that matter mass shipments of fuel that would have been required to conduct the operation. NOPE. Every train that went to the quarry and sorting camp had nothing except Jews sent to the gas chamber! Believe them they saw a Jew get thrown out of a wagon one time!

Do these station workers even report on trains containing other content to the sorting camp and the quary? Or in their minds was every single car of every single train that went there nothing but Jews sent to be gassed? Can you answer that one for me? I wonder how many trains would have been needed to haul the gravel from the quarry. No mention of those!

[PrudentRegret]

Bombsaway logic:

• [1] The May/June 1942 reporting of an "Extermination Camp in Treblinka" receiving transports of Jews deported from ghettos is not related to the Jewish Transit Camp in the area which received Jews deported from ghettos, it's related to the as-of-not-yet constructed "T-II" camp which hadn't opened or received a single transport.
  [2] The underground intelligence was so good they were able to predict the operation of an extermination camp before it even happened or was even constructed!
  [3] But, their surveillance was so bad that nobody thought to mention anything about the daily cremation of several thousand people next to a major civilian rail and in the immediate vicinity of several villages.
  [4] The station workers do not attest to any details of the operation they must have observed if it actually happened, but they are SURE that the trains going to "T-II" and the quarry were ALL totally FULL of Jews to be exterminated. That proves it! But oops, the station workers forgot to mention anything about the 24/7 forest-fire they would have witnessed if this had actually happened. And this massive shunting operation of hundreds thousands of people 8km away somehow escapes any reference whatsoever in any documents.

1. Newspapers are not very reliable sources of information.

Bombsaway, are you stupid? I can't believe I have to spell this out for you:

It's one thing for a newspaper to "not be a reliable source of information." It's another thing entirely for a newspaper to have reported on something, by all accounts, before it happened. That is not coincidence, that is not "getting a fact wrong" that is a demonstration that the information stream was not sourced from the reality you are claiming. It is stupid to suggest that some incompetent reporter falsely reported a story of a death camp in Treblinka receiving transports of Jews to be exterminated by poison gas, and that story was wrong when it was reported but then actually happened a couple months later. That is not getting a fact wrong that is proof that your model of what transpired and when is completely wrong.

[bombsaway]

I don't know man, I read this and it's convincing to me, in particular the German report at Ostrow. It seems unlikely that a few thousand people could create an "unbearable smell" over a 20km radius. Maybe you can go on a bio physics arc and explain this, but to me it seems convincing. The other thing I notice from testimonies is that the burnings were often conducted at night, this would make the smoke less visible (but not the glow, as one witness reported)

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... t_740.html

Janusz Peter, who lived in Tomaszow Lubelski some 9 km away from Belzec, wrote in his memoir that people on passenger trains arriving near the death camp often “had to vomit or pass out” due to the smell, while others had to leave the area because they constantly suffered “severe headaches, weight loss, loss of appetite, or anaemia.”[59] Another Pole from Tomaszow Lubelski stated that the townspeople kept rags soaked in cologne for when the stench became unbearable.[60] Josef L., a Pole from Rawa Ruska some 14 km away from Belzec, reported before the end of the war that fires were visible at night with the smell of burning flesh, while certain wind gusts would cause human hair to be blown to his town[61]; such a distance is supported by Belzec construction worker Stanislaw Kozak, who reported smelling the stench of burnt corpses up to 15 km away from the camp.[62]

Of course, Belzec was not the only camp whose cremations were noticed by locals, although it was the least secluded of the Reinhard camps. Around Sobibor there were similar observations. Pani Gerung stated that people in Chelm knew what was going in the camp, as “They could smell it-the air was rancid even though it was 20 miles away. And the sky lit up in the night with their terrible fires.”[63] In a contemporary 1943 report written by Slovakian Jewish deportees who were selected for labor at Sobibor and worked in nearby camps, one Jew who worked in ZAL Krychow reported that in the vicinity around Sobibor one could always see a fire at night, and that in the wider area there was a perceptible stench from the burning of hair.[64] Such a stench from Sobibor was not limited to the noses of nearby Jews and Poles. Hans Wagner, the commander of Sicherungsbatallion 689 in Chelm and who was later ordered to respond to the revolt in the Sobibor camp, stated after the war that his soldiers discussed amongst themselves and with him the smoke and stench that originated from the extermination camp.[65] The stench was so bad that SS-Scharführer Lachmann told of persons sent to Sobibor from the Trawniki camp who were forced to return with illness due to the smell of corpses;[66] when Lachmann actually was stationed at the camp and witnessed the mass graves being filled with corpses and a chlorine substance for himself, he stated that the smell was “excruciating.”[67]

Regarding Treblinka, the August 24, 1944 report by a Soviet investigative commission found that there were “statements of hundreds of inhabitants of villages” within a 10-15 km radius of the death camp who saw giant columns of black smoke from the camp, while inhabitants as close as 2 km to the camp (in the village of Vul’ka-Kronglik) stated that they actually heard the cries of people.[68] This information was contained in a report heavily quoted by Mattogno, but these lines were perhaps unsurprisingly omitted from his own publication.[69] There also exists another piece of indirect information which Mattogno has long ignored, the documented complaint from the Wehrmacht commander of Ostrow, located 20 km away from Treblinka, which states that “Jews in Treblinka were not adequately buried and as a result an unbearable smell of cadavers pollutes the air.”[70] Despite Mattogno’s feeble attempts to blame the stench on the few thousand of bodies buried at the Treblinka I labor camp[71], inmates at that same labor camp had no problem identifying the source of terrible smells from nearby death camp. Treblinka I prisoner Mieczyslaw Chodzko stated that “the spring winds brought with them the smell of burning bodies from the nearby extermination camp. We breathed in the stench of smouldering corpses…At night we gazed at skies red from the flames. Sometimes you could also see tongues of flames rising into the night.”[72] Another Treblinka I inmate, Israel Cymlich, wrote in 1943 that “smoke was billowing from the pits and the terrible smell of burning human bodies spread through the air.”[73] Obviously the smells that Cymlich and Chodzko experienced were from the cremation of the mass graves filled with hundreds of thousands of Jews in the Treblinka extermination camp, which the Wehrmacht command of Ostrow believed were “not adequately buried.”

Bystander witnesses have also given more recent evidence of witnessing shootings and smelling the cremations. Father Patrick Desbois interviewed the village priest of Belzec, aged 91, who described how, along with other villagers, he had watched executions from his roof. He also stated that his mother "couldn't bear the smoke" so had to shut herself up in the cellar. Another Desbois interviewee, a peasant, explained that the commander of Belzec camp requisitioned his wheat and barley sorting machine. When he went back to collect his machine, after the deportations had finished, he found that ten such machines were being used to sift Jews' ashes.[74] At least three Polish villagers testified to the investigators of Belzec in 1945 that they heard about the test gassing at Belzec from the Trawnikis.[75]

Hopefully it has been made apparent to the reader that bystander witnesses can possess great value as sources of evidence, especially when they are not the only, or even primary, form of evidence that is available on a subject.[76] One could hardly, in an honest way, describe the above evidence from the indirect sources as “insignificant.”[77] Perhaps the inability to refute such witnesses is why Kues has once suggested that local Poles who reported about their indirect experiences with the extermination camps after their liberation had been “threatened with imprisonment, deportation or even execution as a punishment for “collaboration with the enemy” if they did not affirm the general outline of the death camp allegations.”[78] While Kues is unable to offer the slightest shred of evidence to substantiate his conspiratorial argument, for the burial and cremation smell issue discussed above such an argument can easily be shown as faulty as it is obviously ignorant of the number of confirmations of Polish villagers produced by the Germans themselves in their statements and documents.

It seems you've made a left turn here to 'it couldn't have happened because the evidence is insufficient'. You made this statement on rodoh, to which I replied https://rodoh.info/thread/714/outdoor-c ... llTo=18705 "holy mother of cow" . . .

It makes a lot of sense to me that there would be less evidence generated for a mass killing operation of a large group of people than evidence for their transport and continuous supply over a period of years. Of course after the war many or most of them would have presumably survived, so there has to be some mechanism in place to ensure their silence, which also strains believability. A conspiracy involving many hundreds of thousands or millions where everyone stayed quiet? But revisionists don't really get into this subject. I'm happy to discuss and justify to you the lack of Holocaust evidence in certain areas, but if you can't acknowledge the objectively much greater dearth of evidence for your narrative (I would say a total zero), that's where my 'humoring you' has its limits.

Again I would point out to you the flaws in your approach, as I see them. You're working backwards from a prior conclusion rather than a place of agnosticism. It would be improper and similarly flawed if I said the Holocaust happened because the evidence for resettlement was bad (rather I would say this is just an existential flaw in the revisionist perspective). I want you to introspect more along these lines.

[PrudentRegret]

Again I would point out to you the flaws in your approach, as I see them. You're working backwards from a prior conclusion rather than a place of agnosticism.

That's funny to say since I am departing from both Revisionists and Mainstream in my interpretation of the purpose of "T-II." I arrived at that conclusion through more independent thinking about the question than most, certainly more than you.

My claim at the very beginning was that the conclusion "T-II was the arrival point of 700,000 people" is only supported by witness testimony and you are now reduced to just pointing to the witness testimony I acknowledged in the first place as being insufficient to justify the conclusion.

I will again point out the incident of the "Russians in England" whereby a huge number of witnesses all falsely claimed to see the Russian Expeditionary Force passing through England by train. None of them saw what they said they saw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaBBVCcVBhc

Some even testified to precise details like seeing the black beards and pipes of the Russians or children being tossed Russian coins.

Trains passing through areas during wartime is ripe for rumors and misunderstanding, not even to mention intentional deception. It's just not a good body of evidence to accept the assumption, particularly since it is called into question by other issues I've risen which you've side-stepped. They didn't testify to seeing what they would have seen if they actually saw what they said they saw. The lack of details is absolutely glaring to anybody who isn't extremely gullible or just flat-out bad-faith. This is a big problem with all the extermination witnesses.

Why do none of the station workers testify to the arrival of trains for the purpose of either the active gravel quarry or the mass supply of fuel which would have been required for the cremation? Because if I witness a petty crime I am going to get a more thorough interview than what Judge L produced for courts. No wonder he failed to ascertain the truthful interpretation of the purpose of these camps.