Hitler and the Einsatzgruppen Reports

[clintongeorge]

Hello, I have two related questions, although I am more interested in the second.

1) Was Hitler shown every single Einsatzgruppen report?

2) Do we have record of him saying anything or giving any sort of reaction when presented with them? I ask this question, because at least a few of the reports contained very large numbers of deaths in the ‘Jews’ column, with very small numbers of deaths recorded in the ‘Partisans’ column.

I remember reading in one of the HH books (I now cannot find the reference), maybe one by Mattogno, that mentioned Hitler being shown one of the more deadly reports not once, but twice, as result of the battle of Stalingrad distracting him.

Thank you.

[fireofice]

There is no documentation of Hitler reacting to any Einsaztgruppen reports that I am aware of. Meldung 51 which has killings of up to 300,000 has the note "shown to the Fuhrer" on it, but no reaction from him. So it is likely he was aware of it.

[Hektor]

As far as the question goes:
1. Don't think there is any evidence that this was shown to him. Also no real comment or recording there.
2. So also no provable statement from him.

It's all hearsay and speculation.

Activities and scope of Einsatzgruppen activities are still open to debate. There is good book by Carlo Mattogno on the matter. From the data on the unit and documents other then the dubious reports, the claims sound rather dubious.

[clintongeorge]

It appears that fireofice has answered my question, and I believe it to be true. There is a document alluding to the need to show Hitler the reports and evidence that he viewed Meldung 51, a report with over 360,000 Jewish deaths on it. I’ve read the Mattogno book, it is interesting.

As far as the question goes:
1. Don't think there is any evidence that this was shown to him. Also no real comment or recording there.
2. So also no provable statement from him.

It's all hearsay and speculation.

Activities and scope of Einsatzgruppen activities are still open to debate. There is good book by Carlo Mattogno on the matter. From the data on the unit and documents other then the dubious reports, the claims sound rather dubious.

[Archie]

I know the OSRs (1-195) had some distribution, but I have never heard it claimed that they went as far as Hitler-level. And other Einsatzgruppen reports like L-180 (Stahlecker) would probably be much too long and detailed to go to Hitler.

There has been a lot of discussion about NO-1128 (with 363,211 executed Jews) in the past. That might be an exception where is claimed to reached the Fuhrer. Online anti-revisionists tend to take the document as proof that 363,211 were in fact killed, but curiously Gerald Reitlinger in his 1953 indicated that he did not find the figure plausible.

Himmler forwarded to Hitler a report of the Higher SS and Police Leader, General Pruetzmann, showing that 363,211 Jews had been killed in all Russia in August-October--a quite manifest exaggeration, but there were memorable occasions nevertheless. (pg. 226)

[clintongeorge]

Very interesting, thank you. Perhaps telling that such a report was indeed forwarded to Hitler, regardless (or in spite of) of what the actual number was. I’m not necessarily claiming anything one way or the other, just trying to sort out what he laid his eyes on, and if he reacted in any sort of way, which it appears he did not.

I know the OSRs (1-195) had some distribution, but I have never heard it claimed that they went as far as Hitler-level. And other Einsatzgruppen reports like L-180 (Stahlecker) would probably be much too long and detailed to go to Hitler.

There has been a lot of discussion about NO-1128 (with 363,211 executed Jews) in the past. That might be an exception where is claimed to reached the Fuhrer. Online anti-revisionists tend to take the document as proof that 363,211 were in fact killed, but curiously Gerald Reitlinger in his 1953 indicated that he did not find the figure plausible.

Himmler forwarded to Hitler a report of the Higher SS and Police Leader, General Pruetzmann, showing that 363,211 Jews had been kill in all Russia in August-October--a quite manifest exaggeration, but there were memorable occasions nevertheless. (pg. 226)

[Hektor]

As far as figures given are concerned... For executions, regardless of whom, there must be corresponding mass graves. Conveniently Paul Blobel made them all vanish, which is why the Soviets didn't even really bother to look.


As far as Stahlecker is concerned. Didn't he provide something like a map with figures?

[TlsMS93]

I know the OSRs (1-195) had some distribution, but I have never heard it claimed that they went as far as Hitler-level. And other Einsatzgruppen reports like L-180 (Stahlecker) would probably be much too long and detailed to go to Hitler.

There has been a lot of discussion about NO-1128 (with 363,211 executed Jews) in the past. That might be an exception where is claimed to reached the Fuhrer. Online anti-revisionists tend to take the document as proof that 363,211 were in fact killed, but curiously Gerald Reitlinger in his 1953 indicated that he did not find the figure plausible.

Himmler forwarded to Hitler a report of the Higher SS and Police Leader, General Pruetzmann, showing that 363,211 Jews had been kill in all Russia in August-October--a quite manifest exaggeration, but there were memorable occasions nevertheless. (pg. 226)

I have read that it was about evacuated Jews and not executed since the words are similar in German.

[Archie]

I know the OSRs (1-195) had some distribution, but I have never heard it claimed that they went as far as Hitler-level. And other Einsatzgruppen reports like L-180 (Stahlecker) would probably be much too long and detailed to go to Hitler.

There has been a lot of discussion about NO-1128 (with 363,211 executed Jews) in the past. That might be an exception where is claimed to reached the Fuhrer. Online anti-revisionists tend to take the document as proof that 363,211 were in fact killed, but curiously Gerald Reitlinger in his 1953 indicated that he did not find the figure plausible.

Himmler forwarded to Hitler a report of the Higher SS and Police Leader, General Pruetzmann, showing that 363,211 Jews had been kill in all Russia in August-October--a quite manifest exaggeration, but there were memorable occasions nevertheless. (pg. 226)

I have read that it was about evacuated Jews and not executed since the words are similar in German.

Carlos Whitlock Porter and others have made that conjecture. The more general idea is that document forgery/manipulation isn’t limited to fabricating an entire document from scratch (which is generally difficult). You could also take a genuine document and make slight changes. A word or two, a number, etc.

[Hektor]

....
Carlos Whitlock Porter and others have made that conjecture. The more general idea is that document forgery/manipulation isn’t limited to fabricating an entire document from scratch (which is generally difficult). You could also take a genuine document and make slight changes. A word or two, a number, etc.

That would also be the likely modus operandi. instead of forging from scratch. Apply changes, copy texts, leave out certain passage etc. I don't think it's feasible to forge millions of documents. But it is possible to insert a few manipulated documents into a body of a million documents. They must look as similar as possible of course and that is why you won't forge them from scratch, but use existing material.

One doesn't have to be blunt in documents neither. In fact innuendo can be more useful than stark statements. What one also can do is to cherry-pick documents and text portions that sound a bit obnoxious, especially when the audience is ignorant of the context.