Criticism of Jews as a Collective (Not Just as Individuals) is Ethical and Warranted

[HansHill]

If the internet is this inaccessible to you, then please be resourceful and get yourself a VPN like i told you before.

I am not doing that just to view images you post. I caught you out about the Kula columns and that clearly bugs you.

Yeah you got me



For those unsure of what Nessie is referring to, they can make up their own mind instead of derailing yet another thread

https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=549

[Callafangers]

Jews are defined and united by their religion. To exclude religious groups is a cope by you, as you do not want comparisons that will show there is nothing unusual with the amount of organisations Jews have.

I do not think you recognize how ridiculous this statement is. Geez.

I excluded religion (synagogues) in order to show that Jews are not just a religion and that they are organizing to develop networks of social and political power, reflecting their group cohesion far beyond any mere religious faith or fellowship. This is admitted repeatedly in their own organizational mission statements.

Nessie, you are crapping your pants and it stinks.

You are doing the same thing with Holocaust debates, you ignore that you should be able to evidence what happened, if there were no mass murders. You miss out a vital part of the enquiry. In this thread, it is claimed that criticism of Jews as a collective is warranted, because they act collectively so often. But, you then fail to prove that they do act collectively, more so than any other comparable group of people. Basically, as you do with the Holocaust, you are making mistakes with how you investigate and evidence.

This is 'tu quoque', a fallacy -- therefore invalid. You have deflected from your inability to provide any list of similar organizations (in characteristics and in scale) for any other group that you deflect onto. I have shown 100% that Jews have a unique organizational system that is extraordinary in scale. I have shown Jewish federations united by centralized federation entities, numerous massive special interest groups united not by religion but by tribalism and socio-political interests (and these united by parent organizations), extremist sects which operate in 86 countries out of more than 3,500 facilities implemented by a cultish network of married couple designees, and the fact that Jews have always had extreme disproportionate control in other key institutions such as a near-monopoly of the CEO and chairperson positions in every major media conglomerate.

Nessie, are you going to keep shitting your pants, or do you have comparable examples for any other group or religion? But remember, you do not have to only prove that a similar type and number of such organizations exist for a given religion or group, say, Christianity. You have to account for proportionality (per capita), to capture the real truth of the matter.

Good luck.

[Nessie]

Jews are defined and united by their religion. To exclude religious groups is a cope by you, as you do not want comparisons that will show there is nothing unusual with the amount of organisations Jews have.

I do not think you recognize how ridiculous this statement is. Geez.

I excluded religion (synagogues) in order to show that Jews are not just a religion and that they are organizing to develop networks of social and political power, reflecting their group cohesion far beyond any mere religious faith or fellowship. This is admitted repeatedly in their own organizational mission statements.

Which other religions do as well.

Nessie, you are crapping your pants and it stinks.

I don't need to resort to childish comments.

You are doing the same thing with Holocaust debates, you ignore that you should be able to evidence what happened, if there were no mass murders. You miss out a vital part of the enquiry. In this thread, it is claimed that criticism of Jews as a collective is warranted, because they act collectively so often. But, you then fail to prove that they do act collectively, more so than any other comparable group of people. Basically, as you do with the Holocaust, you are making mistakes with how you investigate and evidence.

This is 'tu quoque', a fallacy -- therefore invalid.

It is not a fallacy to point out a flaw in your evidence gathering. You only select evidence that confirms what you want to believe.

You have deflected from your inability to provide any list of similar organizations (in characteristics and in scale) for any other group that you deflect onto. I have shown 100% that Jews have a unique organizational system that is extraordinary in scale.

No you have not, because you have made no effort to check to see if other religions, or collectives, also create organisations. Instead, you demand that I do it, to prove you wrong.

I have shown Jewish federations united by centralized federation entities, numerous massive special interest groups united not by religion but by tribalism and socio-political interests (and these united by parent organizations), extremist sects which operate in 86 countries out of more than 3,500 facilities implemented by a cultish network of married couple designees, and the fact that Jews have always had extreme disproportionate control in other key institutions such as a near-monopoly of the CEO and chairperson positions in every major media conglomerate.

Nessie, are you going to keep shitting your pants, or do you have comparable examples for any other group or religion? But remember, you do not have to only prove that a similar type and number of such organizations exist for a given religion or group, say, Christianity. You have to account for proportionality (per capita), to capture the real truth of the matter.

Good luck.

IOW, you are assuming the result you want. You cannot be bothered to evidence it. That inability to understand evidencing and basing your beliefs on assumption, is why you fall for hoaxes, such as Holocaust Denial.

[Nessie]

https://www.causeiq.com/directory/catho ... ions-list/

"Catholic nonprofit organizations
There are 4,610 catholic organizations in the United States"

AI Overview
Top 15 Catholic Charities To Donate To In The USA
Roman Catholic organizations in the USA span many sectors, including large charitable bodies like Catholic Charities USA and Catholic Relief Services, educational groups like the National Catholic Educational Association (NCEA), and advocacy groups such as the Catholic League. Other organizations focus on social justice, religious liberty, specific charitable programs, lay associations, religious orders, and even educational institutions.
Charities and Social Services

Catholic Charities USA:
A major network of non-profit organizations that provides services to people in need across the nation.
Catholic Relief Services:
An international humanitarian agency that works to alleviate suffering and fight poverty around the world.
Society of St. Vincent de Paul:
A Catholic lay organization focused on helping people through person-to-person outreach.
Maryknoll:
A Catholic organization of priests, brothers, and lay missioners serving communities globally.

Education:
National Catholic Educational Association (NCEA): Represents Catholic K-12 schools and institutions of higher learning in the United States.
National Association of Private Catholic and Independent Schools (NAPCIS): An organization for private Catholic and independent schools.

Advocacy and Religious Freedom:
Catholic League: An organization focused on defending Catholic civil and religious rights.
Catholics for Freedom of Religion: A group dedicated to preserving religious liberty.

Lay Associations and Religious Orders:
Catholic Daughters of the Americas: A women's group that provides support and service through a variety of activities.
Catholic War Veterans: An organization for Catholic individuals who have served in the military.
Catholic Third Orders: Communities of laity who, while living ordinary lives, are dedicated to a particular spiritual path within the Church.

Other Categories:
Catholic Media:
Includes groups like the Catholic Media Association and networks like Catholic TV Network.
Social Activism:
Organizations like the Catholic Common Ground Initiative aim to promote dialogue on complex issues.
Specialized Groups:
The list also includes groups like the Catholic Medical Association and organizations for charismatic renewal."

That is just the USA.

[Nessie]

Roman Catholic political parties;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... al_parties

A

Austrian People's Party (1 C, 1 P)

C

Christian democratic parties in Belgium (11 P)
Christian democratic parties in Lithuania (10 P)
Christian democratic parties in Slovakia (3 C, 6 P)

Croatian Democratic Union (1 C, 10 P)

F

Falangist parties (2 C, 29 P)

K

KDU-ČSL (3 C, 25 P)

L

Law and Justice (1 C, 19 P)

Legitimists (2 C, 60 P)

M

Movement for Reconstruction of Poland (1 C, 1 P)

N

National Action Party (Mexico) (1 C, 9 P)
National Democracy (7 C, 35 P)

Nationalist Party (Malta) (2 C, 2 P)

O

Our Homeland Movement (1 C, 2 P)

P

Patriotic Union (Liechtenstein) (2 C, 2 P)
People's Party (Spain) (2 C, 26 P)
Polish People's Party (5 C, 20 P)

Progressive Citizens' Party (1 C, 3 P)

S

Slovak Democratic and Christian Union – Democratic Party (1 C, 6 P)

Slovak People's Party (2 C, 6 P)

U

United Poland (1 C, 1 P)

Pages in category "Catholic political parties"

The following 200 pages are in this category, out of approximately 364 total. This list may not reflect recent changes.
(previous page) (next page)
A

Administer Trentino
Agreement (political party)
AGROunia
Alliance for Italy
Alliance for Poland
Alliance of the Centre (Italy)
Alsace–Lorraine Regional Party
Alternative Social Movement
Ancestral Home
Andrássy-Friedrich Party
Ang Kapatiran
Association of National Parties and Organizations
Autonomist Federation
Autonomists
Autonomists for Europe
Autonomy South

B

Basque Christian Democracy
Basque Nationalist Party
Bavaria Party
Bavarian People's Party
Belgian Democratic Union
Buhay Party-List

C

Camp of Great Poland
Campobase
Cantiere Popolare
Carlist Traditionalist Communion
Catalan Regional Action
Catholic Democrats (Ireland)
Catholic Electoral Action
Catholic Electoral Committee "Fatherland"
Catholic Electoral League
Catholic National Party
Catholic Party (Indonesia)
Catholic Party (Liverpool)
Catholic People's Party
Catholic People's Party (Austria-Hungary)
Catholic People's Party (Poland)
Catholic Union (Costa Rica)
Catholic-National Conservative Party in Bohemia
Catholic-National Conservative Party in Moravia
CDS – People's Party
CEDA
Centre Agreement
Centre Agreement – Integrative Initiative
Centre Civic Alliance
Centre Democracy and Progress
Centre Democrats (San Marino)
Centre of Social Democrats
Centre Party (Germany)
Centre Party (Poland)
Centrists for Europe
Chjeno-Piast
Christian and Democratic Union
KDU-ČSL
Christian Democracy (Italy, 2002)
Christian Democracy (Italy, 2004)
Christian Democracy (Italy, 2012)
Christian Democracy (Italy)
Christian Democracy for Autonomies
Christian Democracy of the Third Polish Republic
Christian Democracy Sicily
Christian Democratic Centre
Christian Democratic Movement
Christian Democratic Party (Argentina)
Christian Democratic Party (Bolivia)
Christian Democratic Party (Czech Republic)
Christian Democratic Party (Italy)
Christian Democratic Party (Paraguay)
Christian Democratic Party of Cuba
Christian Democratic Party of Honduras
Christian Democratic People's Party (Hungary)
Christian Democratic People's Party of Switzerland
Christian Democratic Union (Ecuador)
Christian Democrats for Freedom
Christian Democrats for the Republic
Christian Liberation Movement
Christian National Front
Christian National Party (Hungary)
Christian National Socialist Front
Christian National Union
Christian National Union Party
Christian Opposition
Christian Party of Austria
Christian People's Party (Germany, 1920)
Christian People's Party (Germany, 1965)
Christian People's Party (Peru)
Christian Popular Union
Christian Revolution
Christian Social and Economic Party
Christian Social Movement in Ukraine
Christian Social Party (Austria)
Christian Social Party (Liechtenstein)
Christian Social Party (Switzerland)
Christian Social Party of Obwalden
Christian Social People's Party
Christian Social Rally of Liberty
Christian Social Union in Bavaria
Christian Solidarity Party
Christian Union (Slovakia)
Christian Union of National Unity
Christian Workers' Party
Christian-Social People's Party (Liechtenstein)
Ciervists
Citizenship and Christian Democracy
Club de Clichy
Coalition pour la vie et la famille
Confederation of the Polish Crown
Conservative Catholics (Italy)
Conservative Party (Spain)
Conservative Party of Quebec (historical)
Conservative People's Party (Bohemia)
Conservative People's Party (Poland)
Conservative Union (Spain)
Conservatives and Reformists (Italy)
Constitutional Catholic Party of Lithuania and Belarus
Croatian Christian Democratic Union
Croatian Christian Democratic Union of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatian Democratic Union
Croatian Popular Party (1919)
Croatian Republican Party
Czech Christian Social Party in the Kingdom of Bohemia

D

Daisy Civic List
Democratic Action Party (Malta)
Democratic Centre (France)
Democratic Centre (Italy)
Democratic Community of Welfare and Freedom
Democratic Labor Party (Australia, 1955)
Democratic Labour Party (Australia, 1978)
Democratic Nationalist Party (Malta, 1921–1926)
Democratic Party (Peru)
Democratic Party of National Confidence
Democratic People's Party (San Marino)
Democratic Populars
Democratic Reform
Democratic Union for the Republic
Democratic Union of Alto Adige
Democratic Union of Catalonia
Deutscher Verband
Direction Italy

E

Electoral Carlism (Restoration)
Electoral Carlism (Second Republic)
Euro-Populars for San Marino
European Democracy

F

Falange Española de las JONS (1976)
FET y de las JONS
Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front
Fassa Association
Fatherland Front (Austria)
Federalist Greens
Federation of Christian Populars
Feuillant (political group)
Fidesz–KDNP
Floriana l-Ewwel
Fortza Paris
Forward Poland
Forza Italia (1994)
Front for Democracy

G

Galician League (Santiago de Compostela)
General League of Roman Catholic Electoral Associations
German Christian People's Party
German Christian Social People's Party
Għarb First
Greens Greens
Guatemalan Christian Democracy

H

Homeland Patriotic Movement

I

Independence Movement (Lebanon)
Independent Democratic Union
Integral Autonomy (1982)
International Secretariat of Democratic Parties of Christian Inspiration
Italian Catholic Electoral Union
Italian Nationalist Association
Italian People's Party (1919)
Italy Is Popular

L

Labour Faction (1937)
Latgalian Christian Peasant and Catholic Party
League of Polish Families
League of the Right of the Republic
Legitimists
Liberal Democratic Congress
Liberal Populars
Libertarian Movement (Costa Rica)
List of Lithuanians and Catholics
Lithuanian Christian Democratic Party
Lithuanian Christian Democrats
Lorrain Republican Union

M

Malta Workers Party
Maltese Political Union
Marada Movement
Maurist Party
Mexican Democratic Party
Mexican Democratic Party (1946)
Mexican Fascist Party
Middle Italy (political party)
Moderate Party (Spain)
Moravian-Silesian Christian Social Party in Moravia
Movement for Autonomy
Movement for Reconstruction of Poland
Movement for the Republic

N

National Action Party (Nicaragua)
National Alliance July 18

[Nessie]

AI Overview
Roman Catholic lobby groups in the UK include Caritas Social Action Network (CSAN), which advocates for social justice based on Catholic teachings, and The Catholic Union, which aims to protect and promote the ability of Catholics to engage in public life and make representations to government. Other groups include the Prison Advice and Care Trust (Pact) (which supports people connected to the criminal justice system), and CAFOD (which campaigns on global poverty and injustice).
Here are some of the specific Roman Catholic lobby groups and advocacy organizations in the UK:
Caritas Social Action Network (CSAN):
This is the official national Catholic agency for poverty and injustice in England and Wales, aiming to influence public policy and support social action at a local and national level.
The Catholic Union:
A historical organisation founded in 1870 to address social challenges and enable Catholics to participate in public affairs. The Catholic Union engages with Parliament, government departments, and other public authorities to advocate for its goals.
Prison Advice and Care Trust (Pact):
Founded as the Catholic Prisoners' Aid Society, Pact is an inclusive charity that supports individuals and families affected by the criminal justice system, regardless of their faith.
CAFOD (Catholic Agency for Overseas Development):
While also a charity providing aid, CAFOD actively campaigns on global issues such as poverty, climate change, and human rights, working in solidarity with people worldwide to tackle root causes of injustice.
Aid to the Church in Need (ACN):
This Catholic charity supports Christians, particularly Catholics, who are persecuted or live in areas of pastoral need by raising awareness, advocating for their cause, and fundraising

[Nessie]

AI Overview
Roman Catholic lobby groups in the U.S. include organizations like NETWORK Lobby, focusing on social justice and economic issues, and groups like the Catholic League, which defends the Catholic faith and promotes conservative viewpoints. Other groups, such as CatholicVote.org, are politically active advocacy organizations, while the Catholic Climate Covenant focuses on environmental stewardship from a Catholic perspective.
Social Justice Focused:

NETWORK Lobby for Catholic Social Justice: This organization was founded in 1971 and lobbies for economic justice, immigration reform, healthcare, and peace.

Conservative & Faith Defense Focused:

Catholic League:
A lay organization that works to defend the Catholic faith and promote conservative principles.

CatholicVote.org:
A non-profit political advocacy group that supports conservative, non-profit political advocacy and acknowledges the authority of the Catholic Magisterium.

Specialized Issue Focused:

Catholic Climate Covenant: This group works on environmental issues, grounding its efforts in the Catholic Church's teachings on creation care and protecting the most vulnerable.

Other Notable Groups:

Catholic Pundit:
While not a lobbying group, this organization discusses politics and religion and often supports Catholic viewpoints on various issues.
Catholic & Culture:
A platform that features Catholic thinkers, writers, and cultural leaders, with content covering a range of topics including politics, society, and the church.

[Nessie]

"Catholic advocacy groups"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... acy_groups

The following 21 pages are in this category, out of 21 total. This list may not reflect recent changes.
A

Advocates of Saint Peter
Alleanza Cattolica
America Needs Fatima
American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property

B

Blue Army of Our Lady of Fátima

C

Catholic Action
Catholic Action Center
Catholic Answers
Catholic Evidence Guild
Catholic League (U.S.)
Catholic Union of Great Britain
Church Militant (website)

K

Knights of Columbus
Knights of Peter Claver

N

NETWORK Lobby
Nuns on the Bus

P

Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira Institute

T

Tradition, Family, Property

U

Una Voce

W

Word on Fire
World Movement of Christian Workers

[Nessie]

I could go on, but it was so simple, with just AI and Wikipedia, to prove that Roman Catholics, worldwide, organise themselves into many groups, to influence many sectors, to meet their favour and interests. They openly seek to influence governments in many nations, convert more people to their religion, and influence whole nations socially. It is questionable, how much a devout Roman Catholic would put their national interests, ahead of their religion.

[Callafangers]

Nessie's latest spam is a lazy Wikipedia dump of Catholic groups -- mostly religious orders, charities, and advocacy tied to Catholic faith-based doctrine (e.g., anti-abortion, social justice per Vatican BS). Compare that to Jewish federations: centralized, global networks explicitly for "Jewish empowerment," lobbying, media control, and Israel advocacy, raising billions annually. Not remotely the same scope or intent.

I've challenged you to provide reasonable comparisons (non-religious, tribal/ethnic power networks for other groups), and you've dodged, obviously because they DO NOT EXIST at this scale. Show me a "Christian Federation of North America" raising just $3B/year for "global Christian unity and influence" -- but wait -- you'd need to actually show one of something like $90B+ a year, since there are 30x as many Christians in the USA as there are Jews (and closer to 300x or so globally, so... more like $$$ Trillions $$$ -- no joke, yet you provide nothing at all).

I've evidenced Jewish collective cohesion via unique, massive, interconnected networks prioritizing tribal power over host-nation interests. These groups overall (per their own mission statements) aren't advocating anything for America nor American people (nor for their relations globally), nor Britain nor British people, etc., unless by circumstance or coincidence in their efforts and advocacy for Jews and Israel. You can take that to the bank (where you'll also find Jews). This warrants criticism, especially when tied to the 'Holocaust' -- one of many narratives Jews collectively promote to shield their interests.

You've provided zero comparable evidence for other groups, just deflections and copes. Your pants? Still crapping. Peepee too.

[HansHill]

Nessie's latest spam is a lazy Wikipedia dump of Catholic groups

It also hilariously demonstrates the point rather than disproves it. Despite Christian countries having Christian interests, they are mostly powerless to actually enforce poltical or societal influence in the West (ie, powerless to stop abortion, gay marriage, transgenderism, ME wars and so on and so forth).

Thanks for demonstrating the point, Nessie.

[Callafangers]

Nessie's latest spam is a lazy Wikipedia dump of Catholic groups

It also hilariously demonstrates the point rather than disproves it. Despite Christian countries having Christian interests, they are mostly powerless to actually enforce poltical or societal influence in the West (ie, powerless to stop abortion, gay marriage, transgenderism, ME wars and so on and so forth).

Thanks for demonstrating the point, Nessie.

Catholics/Christians also have dozens or hundreds of different national interests -- that accounts for dozens or hundreds of different tribal interests, bound only by their religious faith (and even that is fragmented into many denominations having little or connection to one another, especially across national borders). Note that there are hardly any parent organizations for these Catholic groups on the list, let alone ones which unite them along social and political lines intent on things like political subversion or empowerment, loyalty to a given foreign nation, media control, etc.

This isn't the case with Jews, who frequently share the same national loyalty ('Israel'), no matter what country they are occupying. Even if we say "not all Jews", the patterns in Jewish organizational development show beyond dispute that it's a metric shitload of them who do maintain this foreign loyalty.

Can anyone list the Jewish organizations that explicitly encourage Jewish loyalty to the host nation over loyalty to Israel?

Bueller...? Buuuueeeellleerrr???

[HansHill]

Note that there are hardly any parent organizations for these Catholic groups on the list, let alone ones which unite them along social and political lines intent on things like political subversion or empowerment, loyalty to a given foreign nation, media control, etc.

Strictly speaking that "parent organization" for Catholicism is the RCC itself, but yes your point is valid and well made in this context.

The RCC is actually my main area of focus away from this board, with specific focus on Vatican II. For anybody new to this topic, an excellent primer on this, from a Revisionist-friendly perspective is the below:

[Callafangers]

Strictly speaking that "parent organization" for Catholicism is the RCC itself, but yes your point is valid and well made in this context.

The RCC is actually my main area of focus away from this board, with specific focus on Vatican II. For anybody new to this topic, an excellent primer on this, from a Revisionist-friendly perspective is the below:

Fair point, well-taken, I may have questions at some point. Will check out the book as time permits.

[Nessie]

Nessie's latest spam is a lazy Wikipedia dump of Catholic groups -- mostly religious orders, charities, and advocacy tied to Catholic faith-based doctrine (e.g., anti-abortion, social justice per Vatican BS). Compare that to Jewish federations: centralized, global networks explicitly for "Jewish empowerment," lobbying, media control, and Israel advocacy, raising billions annually. Not remotely the same scope or intent.

I've challenged you to provide reasonable comparisons (non-religious, tribal/ethnic power networks for other groups), and you've dodged, obviously because they DO NOT EXIST at this scale. Show me a "Christian Federation of North America" raising just $3B/year for "global Christian unity and influence" -- but wait -- you'd need to actually show one of something like $90B+ a year, since there are 30x as many Christians in the USA as there are Jews (and closer to 300x or so globally, so... more like $$$ Trillions $$$ -- no joke, yet you provide nothing at all).

I've evidenced Jewish collective cohesion via unique, massive, interconnected networks prioritizing tribal power over host-nation interests. These groups overall (per their own mission statements) aren't advocating anything for America nor American people (nor for their relations globally), nor Britain nor British people, etc., unless by circumstance or coincidence in their efforts and advocacy for Jews and Israel. You can take that to the bank (where you'll also find Jews). This warrants criticism, especially when tied to the 'Holocaust' -- one of many narratives Jews collectively promote to shield their interests.

You've provided zero comparable evidence for other groups, just deflections and copes. Your pants? Still crapping. Peepee too.

Most of what I linked to, are political lobbying groups, political parties and organisations to promote the socio-political influence of the RC church. How many Jewish political parties are there across the world's Parliaments, let alone Jewish parties that can form the government? I only listed one part of that list. The RC Church dominates politics in many countries.

Ireland was run by the church, until a series of scandals reduced its influence. But there are many examples of RC control, such as Spain, Italy, Poland, Portugal and pretty much the entire of central and south America, along with the Philippines and DRG. Think about how much influence the Vatican has, with its special status at the UN. For a country that is barely a country, it wields immense power and influence.

But you are OK with that, because the are not Jews.