Criticism of Jews as a Collective (Not Just as Individuals) is Ethical and Warranted

[Eye of Zyclone]

+1 Zyclone

I tried making similar points way back on page 1 of this thread but these morons never listen.

Thanks, HansHill.

They're not here to listen. They're here to prevent others from hearing it.

[Nessie]

A favourite of so-called revisionists, is the alleged collective Jewish boycott of Germany in the 1930s

So jews can't be regarded as an aggressive collective when some Zionist agitators led an international boycott of the 3rd Reich in the name of jews, but they must be regarded as an aggressed collective threatened by dangerous antisemites to be silenced & neutralized at all costs when some pro-Palestinian activists (like those of the BDS movement) tried to start an international boycott of the state of Israel. Heads, I win. Tails, you lose. What's the Hebrew word for "blatant double standards" ? Yehudi ???

Only the Jews, who advocated the boycott, can be regarded as a collective. A boycott of Israel does not apply to all Jews, so it is not collective action, either.

Someone who approves of the boycott of Nazi Germany, but is against a boycott of Israel, or vice versa, does not necessarily have double standards.

[Nessie]

Which means that it is wrong to attribute anything to Jews as a collective, so criticism of them is not warranted or ethical.

By your logic, there would be no reason for any law enforcement to discriminate against members of the Mexican drug cartel, not even for drug-related investigations.

No, by my logic, it would be reasonable to discriminate against Mexican drugs cartels, and it would not be reasonable to discriminate against Mexicans with no cartel links, because of the cartels.

I do not believe that anything approaching an academic, fair, research study has gone into determining that Jews are a strong collective, compared to other collectives.

The widespread existence of Jewish federations, alone (with larger, consolidating organizations), is conclusive evidence of this (unless you care to list which other religious ethnicities have a comparable system). Remember, we are not talking about religious institutions like churches/synagogues.

Which is an example of your flawed investigation. If you only look for what you want to find, you have confirmation bias. Cherry-picking evidence is a common flaw with so-called revisionists. If I applied your method to other groups, then I would find the same result as you, that they appear to have more widespread organisations than others. Why exclude other religions?

The Jewish federations serve an entirely different purpose, explicitly dedicated to empowerment of the Jewish collective and its effective organizing:

That pretty much describes all collectives.

The Jewish Federations of North America, formerly the United Jewish Communities, is an American Jewish umbrella organization for the Jewish Federations system, representing over 350 independent Jewish communities across North America that raise and distribute over $2 billion annually, including through planned giving and endowment programs, to support social welfare, social services and educational needs. Jewish Federations also provides fundraising, organization assistance, training, and overall leadership to the Jewish Federations and communities throughout the United States and Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Fe ... th_America

The Jewish Federations of North America (JFNA) represents 146 Jewish Federations and over 300 Network communities, which raise and distribute more than $3 billion annually...
We build flourishing Jewish communities that are healthy, safe, caring, welcoming and inclusive, educated and engaged, active in civil society, and connected to Israel and global Jewry.
[...]
We are the glue that bonds Jewish people and communities, globally connecting individuals and groups to each other, Israel, and over 70 countries worldwide.

https://www.jewishfederations.org/
https://www.jewishfederations.org/our-w ... ommunities

It isn't just North America, it's global:

The Zionist Federation UK, also known as the British Zionist Federation or simply the Zionist Federation (ZF), is an affiliate of the World Zionist Organisation and represents more than 15 organisations and over 30,000 affiliated members. Established in 1899...
https://www.zionist-federation.uk/about

The Board of Deputies of British Jews is the voice of the British Jewish Community, the first port of call for the Government, the media and others seeking to understand Jewish community interests and concerns.

The Board of Deputies is the only democratically elected, cross-communal, representative body in the Jewish community. It comprises over 300 deputies directly elected by the synagogues and communal organisations they represent, from congregations to youth movements, and social welfare charities to regional councils.
https://bod.org.uk/who-we-are/

Especially troubling is the extensive reach of Chabad networks (extremist ultra-orthodox Judaism):

Chabad now operates in record 86 countries
Total number of Chabad shluchim [married couples assigned by the centralized Chabad system to establish Jewish-Chabad organizations] is 4,325, in about 3,500 Chabad Houses [community organizational centers] and other Jewish institutions.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/202809

It isn't just about how widespread and numerous these organizations are, either. It's about how well-consolidated they are; as in, they are all connected (this is a coalition of the largest Jewish organizations in the USA):

The proven and effective voice of organized American Jewry for more than half a century, the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations works publicly and behind the scenes to advance the interests of the American Jewish community, sustain broad-based support for Israel and addresses the critical concerns facing world Jewry with US and world leaders, key opinion molders and the public.

The Conference of Presidents is the preeminent forum for diverse segments of the Jewish community to come together in mutual respect to deliberate vital national and international issues, set policy and priorities, deliberate proactive strategies and take collective action.

The Conference is at the vanguard of engaging America’s leaders and the public to:

• advance the U.S.-Israel special relationship, bolster Israel’s security and prosperity and promote prospects for true and lasting peace in the Middle East;
• reinforce links between Jews worldwide, aid endangered Jewish communities and fight anti-Semitism;
• combat terrorism at home and abroad, strengthen domestic security and safeguard American Jewish institutions;
• build support at the United Nations and end the anti-Israel bias;
• defend human rights of Jews and others and build ties to Arab and Muslim countries;
• build cooperation and coalitions with diverse ethnic, religious and civic groups and other sectors of American society;
• foster international cooperation and promote U.S. national interests.

https://conferenceofpresidents.org/about/

Alpha Epsilon Pi
American Friends of Likud
American Israel Public Affairs Committee
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee
American Sephardi Federation
American Zionist Movement
AMIT
Anti-Defamation League
Association of Reform Zionists of America
B’nai B’rith International
BZ Media
Central Conference of American Rabbis
Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America
Emunah of America
Friends of Israel Defense Forces
Greater Miami Jewish Federation
Hadassah, Women’s Zionist Organization of America
HIAS – The Jewish Organization for Refugees
Hillel: The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life
Iranian American Jewish Federation
Israeli American Council
JCC Association of North America
Jewish Council for Public Affairs
Jewish Federations of North America
Jewish Institute for National Security of America
Jewish Labor Committee
Jewish National Fund
Jewish United Fund/ Jewish Federation of Metropolitan Chicago
Jewish Women International
MERCAZ USA, The Zionist Organization of the Conservative Movement
NA’AMAT USA
National Council of Jewish Women
National Council of Young Israel
NCSEJ: National Coalition Supporting Eurasian Jewry
New Jewish Narrative
ORT America
Rabbinical Assembly
Rabbinical Council of America
Religious Zionists of America
UJA Federation of New York
Union for Reform Judaism
Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Women of Reform Judaism
Women’s International Zionist Organization
Women’s League for Conservative Judaism
World Zionist Organization
Zionist Organization of America
Cantors Assembly
Development Corporation for Israel / State of Israel Bonds
Maccabi USA

https://conferenceofpresidents.org/memb ... nizations/

Yikes.

Add that to their [dis]proportionate over-representation in key institutions (especially media, which is paramount in any democracy) and the Zionist leanings overwhelmingly common among that representation, and we are already in 100% proof territory.

Cry harder, Nessie.

Now do that for other religions and political groupings. How many organisations support the RC Church? How many organisations support the Republicans?

[Nessie]

+1 Zyclone

I tried making similar points way back on page 1 of this thread but these morons never listen.

Thanks, HansHill.

They're not here to listen. They're here to prevent others from hearing it.

The main thing I do here, is point out the flaws in the ways so-called revisionists investigate. Here, they are cherry-picking.

[Callafangers]

The widespread existence of Jewish federations, alone (with larger, consolidating organizations), is conclusive evidence of this (unless you care to list which other religious ethnicities have a comparable system). Remember, we are not talking about religious institutions like churches/synagogues.

Which is an example of your flawed investigation. If you only look for what you want to find, you have confirmation bias. Cherry-picking evidence is a common flaw with so-called revisionists. If I applied your method to other groups, then I would find the same result as you, that they appear to have more widespread organisations than others. Why exclude other religions?

Nessie, this is a sad cope. I'm sorry you're struggling.

Notice I did not discuss networks of synagogues in any of my quoted post. We aren't talking about religion, here. We are talking about collective cohesion, power, and common ambitions among world Jewry (using their own language, here).

Now do that for other religions and political groupings. How many organisations support the RC Church? How many organisations support the Republicans?

Nessie, it is you claiming these other organizations exist (with comparable characteristics, scale, and influence), so you need to show them. Right now, you're simply expressing your incredulity, which isn't my problem -- it's yours.

[Eye of Zyclone]

A favourite of so-called revisionists, is the alleged collective Jewish boycott of Germany in the 1930s

So jews can't be regarded as an aggressive collective when some Zionist agitators led an international boycott of the 3rd Reich in the name of jews, but they must be regarded as an aggressed collective threatened by dangerous antisemites to be silenced & neutralized at all costs when some pro-Palestinian activists (like those of the BDS movement) tried to start an international boycott of the state of Israel. Heads, I win. Tails, you lose. What's the Hebrew word for "blatant double standards" ? Yehudi ???

Only the Jews, who advocated the boycott, can be regarded as a collective. A boycott of Israel does not apply to all Jews, so it is not collective action, either.

Someone who approves of the boycott of Nazi Germany, but is against a boycott of Israel, or vice versa, does not necessarily have double standards.

And the Jews in general can't be regarded as a collective attacked by a boycott of Israel, can they? So why do Jewish organizations, Zionist mass media and AIPAC-owned politicians deceptively portray such a boycott as an antisemitic attack against all the Jews? Answer : because doing so (i.e. portraying a boycott of Israel as an antisemitic attack) makes it possible to ban such a boycott by distorting its true meaning (i.e. by making anti-Zionism look like anti-Semitism).

[Eye of Zyclone]

+1 Zyclone

I tried making similar points way back on page 1 of this thread but these morons never listen.

Thanks, HansHill.

They're not here to listen. They're here to prevent others from hearing it.

The main thing I do here, is point out the flaws in the ways so-called revisionists investigate. Here, they are cherry-picking.

No, you're just trying to muddy the waters in order to save Israel's dearest founding myth from its own gross inconsistencies and blatant lies. Or in other words, 99% of your activities on this forum are about confusing as many lurkers & newbies as possible regarding the refutation of the Holohoax myth. Just Zionist damage control. That's crystal clear.

[Nessie]

The widespread existence of Jewish federations, alone (with larger, consolidating organizations), is conclusive evidence of this (unless you care to list which other religious ethnicities have a comparable system). Remember, we are not talking about religious institutions like churches/synagogues.

Which is an example of your flawed investigation. If you only look for what you want to find, you have confirmation bias. Cherry-picking evidence is a common flaw with so-called revisionists. If I applied your method to other groups, then I would find the same result as you, that they appear to have more widespread organisations than others. Why exclude other religions?

Nessie, this is a sad cope. I'm sorry you're struggling.

Notice I did not discuss networks of synagogues in any of my quoted post. We aren't talking about religion, here. We are talking about collective cohesion, power, and common ambitions among world Jewry (using their own language, here).

Jews are defined and united by their religion. To exclude religious groups is a cope by you, as you do not want comparisons that will show there is nothing unusual with the amount of organisations Jews have.

Now do that for other religions and political groupings. How many organisations support the RC Church? How many organisations support the Republicans?

Nessie, it is you claiming these other organizations exist (with comparable characteristics, scale, and influence), so you need to show them. Right now, you're simply expressing your incredulity, which isn't my problem -- it's yours.

You are doing the same thing with Holocaust debates, you ignore that you should be able to evidence what happened, if there were no mass murders. You miss out a vital part of the enquiry. In this thread, it is claimed that criticism of Jews as a collective is warranted, because they act collectively so often. But, you then fail to prove that they do act collectively, more so than any other comparable group of people. Basically, as you do with the Holocaust, you are making mistakes with how you investigate and evidence.

[Nessie]

So jews can't be regarded as an aggressive collective when some Zionist agitators led an international boycott of the 3rd Reich in the name of jews, but they must be regarded as an aggressed collective threatened by dangerous antisemites to be silenced & neutralized at all costs when some pro-Palestinian activists (like those of the BDS movement) tried to start an international boycott of the state of Israel. Heads, I win. Tails, you lose. What's the Hebrew word for "blatant double standards" ? Yehudi ???

Only the Jews, who advocated the boycott, can be regarded as a collective. A boycott of Israel does not apply to all Jews, so it is not collective action, either.

Someone who approves of the boycott of Nazi Germany, but is against a boycott of Israel, or vice versa, does not necessarily have double standards.

And the Jews in general can't be regarded as a collective attacked by a boycott of Israel, can they?

A boycott of Israel, will not greatly affect Jews from other countries.

So why do Jewish organizations, Zionist mass media and AIPAC-owned politicians deceptively portray such a boycott as an antisemitic attack against all the Jews? Answer : because doing so (i.e. portraying a boycott of Israel as an antisemitic attack) makes it possible to ban such a boycott by distorting its true meaning (i.e. by making anti-Zionism look like anti-Semitism).

I accept that some do make claims of anti-Semitism, when there is none, but that should not then be collectively applied to all Jews.

[Nessie]

Thanks, HansHill.

They're not here to listen. They're here to prevent others from hearing it.

The main thing I do here, is point out the flaws in the ways so-called revisionists investigate. Here, they are cherry-picking.

No, you're just trying to muddy the waters in order to save Israel's dearest founding myth from its own gross inconsistencies and blatant lies. Or in other words, 99% of your activities on this forum are about confusing as many lurkers & newbies as possible regarding the refutation of the Holohoax myth. Just Zionist damage control. That's crystal clear.

Not if you understood how historical and criminal investigations are normally conducted. Then you would see that my criticism of so-called revisionist methodology is crystal clear.

[Keen]

The main thing I do here, is point out the flaws in the ways so-called revisionists investigate. Here, they are cherry-picking.

No, you're just trying to muddy the waters in order to save Israel's dearest founding myth from its own gross inconsistencies and blatant lies. Or in other words, 99% of your activities on this forum are about confusing as many lurkers & newbies as possible regarding the refutation of the Holohoax myth. Just Zionist damage control. That's crystal clear.

Not if you understood how historical and criminal investigations are normally conducted.

You mean like this Nessie:

viewtopic.php?p=16876#p16876

[HansHill]

No, by my logic, it would be reasonable to discriminate against Mexican drugs cartels, and it would not be reasonable to discriminate against Mexicans with no cartel links, because of the cartels.

Your """"""logic"""""" has no place in this world I'm afraid, because the world that I live in, and Callafangers lives in, and everybody else on planet earth lives in, applies group level distinctions where necessary and helpful. Grow up and learn how the world works.

Here you can read about the United Arab Emirates denying new visas for entire populations for reasons I'm sure they are very happy to enforce. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 061056.cms

Earlier in the thread I taught you that White people are denied citizenship rights in certain Negro countries, example:



Here you can read about the group-level animosity, and state sanctioned Anti-Tibetan policies enforced by China, India, Bhutan and others:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Tibetan_sentiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinicization_of_Tibet

"B-b-but I want everybody to be friends!" - Unfortunately, they disagree with you, they don't want to be friends, and their opinion matters more than yours.

[Nessie]

No, by my logic, it would be reasonable to discriminate against Mexican drugs cartels, and it would not be reasonable to discriminate against Mexicans with no cartel links, because of the cartels.

Your """"""logic"""""" has no place in this world I'm afraid, because the world that I live in, and Callafangers lives in, and everybody else on planet earth lives in, applies group level distinctions where necessary and helpful. Grow up and learn how the world works.

I was correcting Callafangers strawman.

Here you can read about the United Arab Emirates denying new visas for entire populations for reasons I'm sure they are very happy to enforce. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 061056.cms

Earlier in the thread I taught you that White people are denied citizenship rights in certain Negro countries, example:

Why do you post images that I have repeatedly told you I cannot see? Like the supposed image that proved the wire mesh devices were in the undressing rooms, not the gas chambers. You refused to link me to that.

Here you can read about the group-level animosity, and state sanctioned Anti-Tibetan policies enforced by China, India, Bhutan and others:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Tibetan_sentiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinicization_of_Tibet

"B-b-but I want everybody to be friends!" - Unfortunately, they disagree with you, they don't want to be friends, and their opinion matters more than yours.

Which must mean that all Chinese people shoudl be criticised as a collective.

[HansHill]

If the internet is this inaccessible to you, then please be resourceful and get yourself a VPN like i told you before.

"Chinese people shoudl be criticised as a collective" Depends what exactly are you criticizing Chinese people for? Eg if you are criticizing them for disliking Tibetans then that does not warrant criticism at all. If you mean criticize them for assimilation of Tibet into China, they view it as a net-positive, so you are welcome to your criticism but they won't care what you think.

**Edit**

In fact, were you to start criticizing the Chinese for things you evidently know very little about, all in the name of defending your precious Jews, that very same Chinese person would probably laugh in your face. They know quite a bit about the Jewish Question, enough to make you squirm in fact, and they would consider you a fool for allowing it to happen in your own country while simultaneously defending them:

Moreover, the state-owned Chinese Central Television has repeatedly spread antisemitic conspiracy theories since the outbreak of the war. On Oct. 10, a Chinese TV report stated that “Jews represent a mere 3% of [U.S.] population but control more than 70% of its wealth.” This state media organ further claimed that Jews constituted the United States’ “most influential minority.”

https://www.hudson.org/religious-freedo ... m-miles-yu

See also:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news ... cteristics
https://www.jta.org/2023/11/08/global/s ... -heres-why

[Nessie]

If the internet is this inaccessible to you, then please be resourceful and get yourself a VPN like i told you before.

I am not doing that just to view images you post. I caught you out about the Kula columns and that clearly bugs you.

"Chinese people shoudl be criticised as a collective" Depends what exactly are you criticizing Chinese people for? Eg if you are criticizing them for disliking Tibetans then that does not warrant criticism at all. If you mean criticize them for assimilation of Tibet into China, they view it as a net-positive, so you are welcome to your criticism but they won't care what you think.

That also applies to Jews. I say everyone should be equal, as to how they are treated. Holocaust deniers hate to be treated as a collective, with some demanding that they are called revisionists, so they have no leg to stand on, when it comes to treating others as a collective.