Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

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Stubble
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Stubble »

Callafangers wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 5:10 pm
Stubble wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 12:34 pm
Seriously though, this highlights 2 things for me. One thing is that testimonies were selectively archived and the other is that the mundane, generally speaking, didn't make it in to the record.
This is a key point which Nessie regularly enjoys ignoring.

"Why don't we have testimony of Jews exiting trains?"
"Why don't we have testimony about a small, boring property sorting camp?"
"Why don't we have testimony about Jews in any particular camp, out of thousands?"


Nessie thinks these are his roaring 'gotcha' questions, but they just speak to his lack of common sense. Records and testimonies don't even exist for as massive a location as the Malkinia camp pictured in the OP. We know from that photo alone that people woke up, ate breakfast, lived, worked, traveled through, took naps, had friends, got in fights, got deloused, received medical care, etc., etc. at the buildings shown in that photograph. Yet not a word from historians on what even happened there. Despite this, Nessie thinks we should be able to provide testimony about a far smaller camp, T-II, even further off the main thoroughfare.

Nessie thinks this because Nessie has nothing else to lean on. The 'Holocaust' house of cards is crumbling fast.


And the camp pictured was a military asset at the rail line changeover and would have represented a liability had it fallen to the Soviet and thus was erased. Not to conceal evidence, but to deny an asset to the enemy.

When you say this about the Bug River camps, the exterminationist incredulity knows no bounds...

/shrug
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by bombsaway »

The witness statement about the camp is this
In 1941–1942 there was a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street. According to memories, it was under the open sky[1.9]. It is known that terrible conditions prevailed there, and people stayed in pits dug in the frozen ground.[1.10].
The camp so confidently stated as Malkinia transit camp by Nazgul and Callafangers, is not "along Nurska Street", and also west of the city, which is why PR pointed to another location for it.

These sort of unsupported inferences (the whole basis of this thread) is why revisionism is not taken seriously. It's rampant and IMO the source of the historical delusions.

I have no idea what the camp in the photo is. It might be Malkinia transit camp, but there's no evidence to suggest it was.
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

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bombsaway wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 6:48 pm The witness statement about the camp is this
In 1941–1942 there was a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street. According to memories, it was under the open sky[1.9]. It is known that terrible conditions prevailed there, and people stayed in pits dug in the frozen ground.[1.10].
The camp so confidently stated as Malkinia transit camp by Nazgul and Callafangers, is not "along Nurska Street", and also west of the city, which is why PR pointed to another location for it.

These sort of unsupported inferences (the whole basis of this thread) is why revisionism is not taken seriously. It's rampant and IMO the source of the historical delusions.

I have no idea what the camp in the photo is. It might be Malkinia transit camp, but there's no evidence to suggest it was.
bombsaway, this means you have not one but two camps which are both evidenced and missing any official history.

This speaks volumes to the lack of reasonable expectation of a 'non-Holocaust' counter-narrative at T-II.

So much for "revisionists can't explain what else happened at this obscure, trivial camp south of Malkinia... Therefore, the liars are correct and the largest cremation event in history which lacks forensic evidence (corpses) and fuel/wood must have happened!"
...he cries out in pain and proceeds to AI-slop-spam and 'pilpul' you...
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" - Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by bombsaway »

Callafangers wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 8:17 pm
bombsaway wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 6:48 pm The witness statement about the camp is this
In 1941–1942 there was a transit camp in Małkinia for the Jewish population, set up by Germans in the eastern part of the town, along Nurska Street. According to memories, it was under the open sky[1.9]. It is known that terrible conditions prevailed there, and people stayed in pits dug in the frozen ground.[1.10].
The camp so confidently stated as Malkinia transit camp by Nazgul and Callafangers, is not "along Nurska Street", and also west of the city, which is why PR pointed to another location for it.

These sort of unsupported inferences (the whole basis of this thread) is why revisionism is not taken seriously. It's rampant and IMO the source of the historical delusions.

I have no idea what the camp in the photo is. It might be Malkinia transit camp, but there's no evidence to suggest it was.
bombsaway, this means you have not one but two camps which are both evidenced and missing any official history.

This speaks volumes to the lack of reasonable expectation of a 'non-Holocaust' counter-narrative at T-II.

So much for "revisionists can't explain what else happened at this obscure, trivial camp south of Malkinia... Therefore, the liars are correct and the largest cremation event in history which lacks forensic evidence (corpses) and fuel/wood must have happened!"
It's unclear that this was a "camp" at all, much less a camp for Jews. That's just pure speculation on your part.

There aren't necessarily huge gaps in the record, nobody has bothered to comprehensively research the existence of thousands of labor camps. These could be covered in the forthcoming volumes

https://www.ushmm.org/research/publicat ... ps-ghettos

We know from the example of ghettos that most were represented. If you tally up the populations, I think a majority of those believed to have been housed in the east are going to covered by this. W the example of ghettos (in the East) that we have good details on we can see how inane the supposition is that most were deported and housed in internment camps or some such there.
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by pilgrimofdark »

The problem with Malkinia is that no one survived the electric furnaces to write a book suitable for fourth-graders. As a result, confusion reigns.

However, with minimal searching, we have one official government report, two newspaper articles, one eyewitness statement, and one hearsay statement. Among dozens of other mentions in various sources.

Pre-ChGK, tales seem to be a little mundane.

I wonder what the inmates of "Postal Worker Reformation Camp Malkinia" thought of the rotting corpses on the ground, the Nazis firing poison gas bullets at sealed traincars all day, and the hundreds of thousands of suffocating Jews passing through. There's no mention of an orchestra drowning out the noise for the errant postal workers.
A circular from the German Post Office warns postal workers that leaving service requires the consent of the district postal authority. Involuntary cessation of work will be punished by deportation to the "reformation" camp in Małkinia.

- Dziennik Polski, January 27, 1942
The above doesn't have any atrocities, but fast forward and we uncover the elusive "Tremblinka III near Malkinia."
The camps were established in connection with the campaign to exterminate Jews in Europe. Some of them are actually execution sites, where Jews from Polish ghettos and from all over Europe are murdered using poison gas, electricity, and machine guns.

Three such camps gained the greatest notoriety as death camps: Bełżec, Sobibór near Włodawa, and Tremblinka III near Małkinia.

- Dziennik Polski, October 5, 1943
By September 1944, the USSR is putting things in order.

Building redundancy into their systematic industrial genocide, the Nazis used contagious poison gas bullets to kill everyone on the train passing through Postal Worker Reformation Camp Malkinia (but bypassing the electric furnaces) on the way to Treblinka who didn't already die of suffocation, but were going to be killed in the gas chambers if they survived the bloody postal worker reformation, the electric furnaces, the suffocation, and the contagious poison gas bullets.

Just try to poke holes in this story, Nazis! You can't do it!

Also, Malkinia was an open-air graveyard. Same as Treblinka.

These Jews figured out the trick before even seeing the fake shower room. The Dutch angle fence tipped them off. You wonder what the point of the orchestra here was if they'd already figured out the dying.
At Malkinya station, a seven-year-old boy climbed out of a train window. He managed to fetch water once, but when he tried to fetch it again, a German gendarme shot him. This wasn't an isolated incident. Many corpses could be seen on the railroad tracks.
...
As we approached the camp, we noticed a wooden fence, 2-3 meters high. Three rows of wire were attached to the wooden fence, at a slight angle. The Germans' diabolical plan to exterminate Jews immediately became apparent.
...
In the remaining 11 cars, almost everyone had died of suffocation. ... Many of the corpses, however, bore signs of gunshot wounds—the work of the gendarmes en route.

It's important to note that many of the corpses with gunshot wounds had unusual swelling and blackening of the body parts where the wounds had been. ... [the lone survivor] reported that after the gendarmerie fired on the train car, not only those who had been wounded died, but everyone else died too. He said that this destructive effect was caused by the poisonous gases contained in the bullets. And once the bullet hit a person, it caused swelling and blackening of the infected area.

- Interrogation report of Abram Goldfarb, who worked on the team transporting corpses from the Treblinka gas chambers. Kosów-Lacki, September 21, 1944.

(side note: Goldfarb is quoted as a reliable witness in Dr. Terry's book on A-R. He wouldn't impugn the credibility of this witness.)
By October 1944, the Extraordinary State Commission has unveiled the electric furnaces that were used to genocide an entire village of Jews.
During the occupation, the entire Jewish population was deported [from Berestovitsa] to Poland, to Malkinia Station, where they were burned in electric furnaces.

- From the report of the Berestovitsa District Commission of the Extraordinary State Commission on the extermination of the population in the district by German occupiers. Brestovitsa village. October 30, 1944.
Some people lost their paid-for tickets for the Warsaw-Malkinia train line and their tickets were canceled. Anyone using a canceled ticket would be punished.

USHMM Enc. V4 says there was also a "special camp" (labor camp) there. Maybe that was to reeducate the postal workers?

In all seriousness, there's a whole history of Malkinia train station waiting to be written (maybe it already has been?). The Germans were very proud of the infrastructure improvements they made to it.
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Stubble »

pilgrimofdark wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 12:26 am The problem with Malkinia is that no one survived the electric furnaces to write a book suitable for fourth-graders. As a result, confusion reigns.

However, with minimal searching, we have one official government report, two newspaper articles, one eyewitness statement, and one hearsay statement. Among dozens of other mentions in various sources.

Pre-ChGK, tales seem to be a little mundane.

I wonder what the inmates of "Postal Worker Reformation Camp Malkinia" thought of the rotting corpses on the ground, the Nazis firing poison gas bullets at sealed traincars all day, and the hundreds of thousands of suffocating Jews passing through. There's no mention of an orchestra drowning out the noise for the errant postal workers.
A circular from the German Post Office warns postal workers that leaving service requires the consent of the district postal authority. Involuntary cessation of work will be punished by deportation to the "reformation" camp in Małkinia.

- Dziennik Polski, January 27, 1942
The above doesn't have any atrocities, but fast forward and we uncover the elusive "Tremblinka III near Malkinia."
The camps were established in connection with the campaign to exterminate Jews in Europe. Some of them are actually execution sites, where Jews from Polish ghettos and from all over Europe are murdered using poison gas, electricity, and machine guns.

Three such camps gained the greatest notoriety as death camps: Bełżec, Sobibór near Włodawa, and Tremblinka III near Małkinia.

- Dziennik Polski, October 5, 1943
By September 1944, the USSR is putting things in order.

Building redundancy into their systematic industrial genocide, the Nazis used contagious poison gas bullets to kill everyone on the train passing through Postal Worker Reformation Camp Malkinia (but bypassing the electric furnaces) on the way to Treblinka who didn't already die of suffocation, but were going to be killed in the gas chambers if they survived the bloody postal worker reformation, the electric furnaces, the suffocation, and the contagious poison gas bullets.

Just try to poke holes in this story, Nazis! You can't do it!

Also, Malkinia was an open-air graveyard. Same as Treblinka.

These Jews figured out the trick before even seeing the fake shower room. The Dutch angle fence tipped them off. You wonder what the point of the orchestra here was if they'd already figured out the dying.
At Malkinya station, a seven-year-old boy climbed out of a train window. He managed to fetch water once, but when he tried to fetch it again, a German gendarme shot him. This wasn't an isolated incident. Many corpses could be seen on the railroad tracks.
...
As we approached the camp, we noticed a wooden fence, 2-3 meters high. Three rows of wire were attached to the wooden fence, at a slight angle. The Germans' diabolical plan to exterminate Jews immediately became apparent.
...
In the remaining 11 cars, almost everyone had died of suffocation. ... Many of the corpses, however, bore signs of gunshot wounds—the work of the gendarmes en route.

It's important to note that many of the corpses with gunshot wounds had unusual swelling and blackening of the body parts where the wounds had been. ... [the lone survivor] reported that after the gendarmerie fired on the train car, not only those who had been wounded died, but everyone else died too. He said that this destructive effect was caused by the poisonous gases contained in the bullets. And once the bullet hit a person, it caused swelling and blackening of the infected area.

- Interrogation report of Abram Goldfarb, who worked on the team transporting corpses from the Treblinka gas chambers. Kosów-Lacki, September 21, 1944.

(side note: Goldfarb is quoted as a reliable witness in Dr. Terry's book on A-R. He wouldn't impugn the credibility of this witness.)
By October 1944, the Extraordinary State Commission has unveiled the electric furnaces that were used to genocide an entire village of Jews.
During the occupation, the entire Jewish population was deported [from Berestovitsa] to Poland, to Malkinia Station, where they were burned in electric furnaces.

- From the report of the Berestovitsa District Commission of the Extraordinary State Commission on the extermination of the population in the district by German occupiers. Brestovitsa village. October 30, 1944.
Some people lost their paid-for tickets for the Warsaw-Malkinia train line and their tickets were canceled. Anyone using a canceled ticket would be punished.

USHMM Enc. V4 says there was also a "special camp" (labor camp) there. Maybe that was to reeducate the postal workers?

In all seriousness, there's a whole history of Malkinia train station waiting to be written (maybe it already has been?). The Germans were very proud of the infrastructure improvements they made to it.
It all makes perfect sense now, thank you for clearing this up.

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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Nessie »

Callafangers wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 5:10 pm
Stubble wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 12:34 pm
Seriously though, this highlights 2 things for me. One thing is that testimonies were selectively archived and the other is that the mundane, generally speaking, didn't make it in to the record.
This is a key point which Nessie regularly enjoys ignoring.

"Why don't we have testimony of Jews exiting trains?"
"Why don't we have testimony about a small, boring property sorting camp?"
"Why don't we have testimony about Jews in any particular camp, out of thousands?"
There is that kind of testimony, as Jews were transported from ghettos to labour camps and between labour camps. You just never bothered to read much of it.

We do not have that kind of testimony, describing being taken to camps, to work doing boring jobs, for Jews transported to TII.
Nessie thinks these are his roaring 'gotcha' questions, but they just speak to his lack of common sense.
They speak to your lack of knowledge about what happened, evidencing and common sense. Why do we have testimony from many Jewish survivors who were arrested and sent to ghettos, transit and labour camps, but very few who were sent to the AR camps? Where are the Jewish eyewitnesses to being processed through Chelmno, or the A-B Kremas?
Records and testimonies don't even exist for as massive a location as the Malkinia camp pictured in the OP.
How do you know that? Have you searched the archives? You seem to think that because information is not readily available in English, on the internet, it does not exist.
We know from that photo alone that people woke up, ate breakfast, lived, worked, traveled through, took naps, had friends, got in fights, got deloused, received medical care, etc., etc. at the buildings shown in that photograph. Yet not a word from historians on what even happened there. Despite this, Nessie thinks we should be able to provide testimony about a far smaller camp, T-II, even further off the main thoroughfare.

Nessie thinks this because Nessie has nothing else to lean on. The 'Holocaust' house of cards is crumbling fast.
You will need to learn Polish for the prisoner testimony and German for the camp staff and then start to search archives. Then, once your search is complete and you have found nothing about the camp, then we can discuss why that is. :roll:
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Nazgul »

Nessie wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 8:36 am Why do we have testimony from many Jewish survivors who were arrested and sent to ghettos, transit and labour camps, but very few who were sent to the AR camps? Where are the Jewish eyewitnesses to being processed through Chelmno, or the A-B Kremas?
This is because the AR camps were also labour camps. Were the inmates expected to know about German administration? We do not need Jews to testify what happened. Pierre Berg at Birkenau saw nothing untowards, he was a ramp Kapo, yet he did hear rumours.
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Nessie »

Nazgul wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 7:11 am
Nessie wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2025 8:36 am Why do we have testimony from many Jewish survivors who were arrested and sent to ghettos, transit and labour camps, but very few who were sent to the AR camps? Where are the Jewish eyewitnesses to being processed through Chelmno, or the A-B Kremas?
This is because the AR camps were also labour camps. Were the inmates expected to know about German administration? We do not need Jews to testify what happened. Pierre Berg at Birkenau saw nothing untowards, he was a ramp Kapo, yet he did hear rumours.
You have not answered my question about your complete lack of eyewitnesses to what happened inside the AR camps, Chelmno and the Kremas.

Yes, there was labour at the AR camps, sorting the property stolen from the gassed prisoners.

Was Pierre Berg inside Birkenau? He worked at Monowitz;

https://archive.org/details/scheisshaus ... q=birkenau

"Was she getting advice that would help keep her from being sent to the crematoriums of Auschwitz’s second camp, Birkenau? The ovens and gas chambers were no secret to us in Monowitz. I had heard plenty of filtered down accounts from members of the Transportation Kommando who delivered our corpses and near dead to Birkenau."

"The Monowitz Hospital Book records Mr. Berg’s admission to the Haftlingskrankenbau, or prisoners’ infirmary."

He was never at the Kremas, so, yet again, you try and pass off someone as an eyewitness, who was not. That just further proves my point, that despite millions having been to those camps, you cannot find a single eyewitness in your favour.
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Nazgul »

Nessie wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 7:27 am You have not answered my question about your complete lack of eyewitnesses to what happened inside the AR camps, Chelmno and the Kremas.
There are no eye witnesses to human constructs and non events. Do not tell untruths, you are well aware that Olszuk saw nothing of importance at Treblinka, he could see through the whole compound.
Was Pierre Berg inside Birkenau? He worked at Monowitz;
Read his book, I mentioned many times that he was a ramp Kapo.
"Was she getting advice that would help keep her from being sent to the crematoriums of Auschwitz’s second camp, Birkenau? The ovens and gas chambers were no secret to us in Monowitz. I had heard plenty of filtered down accounts from members of the Transportation Kommando who delivered our corpses and near dead to Birkenau."
Hearsay of rumours.
He was never at the Kremas, so, yet again, you try and pass off someone as an eyewitness, who was not. That just further proves my point, that despite millions having been to those camps, you cannot find a single eyewitness in your favour.
He was a ramp kapo who sent no living people to the Kremas. He saw nothing yet was involved in the ramp process; he was integral to it.
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Nessie »

Nazgul wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 8:15 am
Nessie wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 7:27 am You have not answered my question about your complete lack of eyewitnesses to what happened inside the AR camps, Chelmno and the Kremas.
There are no eye witnesses to human constructs and non events. Do not tell untruths, you are well aware that Olszuk saw nothing of importance at Treblinka, he could see through the whole compound.
You are yet again proving me correct. Olszuk did not work in TII and he could not see the entirety of what was happening inside, you are lying. He also does not evidence mass transports of people leaving the camp, which you ignore.
Was Pierre Berg inside Birkenau? He worked at Monowitz;
Read his book, I mentioned many times that he was a ramp Kapo.
I have linked to his book, so how about you quote him talking about working at the ramp inside Birkenau?
"Was she getting advice that would help keep her from being sent to the crematoriums of Auschwitz’s second camp, Birkenau? The ovens and gas chambers were no secret to us in Monowitz. I had heard plenty of filtered down accounts from members of the Transportation Kommando who delivered our corpses and near dead to Birkenau."
Hearsay of rumours.
Correct, since he was never inside a Krema, yet you try to pass him off as an eyewitness who is in your favour!
He was never at the Kremas, so, yet again, you try and pass off someone as an eyewitness, who was not. That just further proves my point, that despite millions having been to those camps, you cannot find a single eyewitness in your favour.
He was a ramp kapo who sent no living people to the Kremas. He saw nothing yet was involved in the ramp process; he was integral to it.
Quote him. When I word search ramp, this is all I get;

https://archive.org/details/scheisshaus ... 2up?q=ramp

"Search inside (2 results)

Page 28
As our bus pulled up to the loading ramp, Nazi guards were locking one of the cattle cars. I had foolishly hoped to catch one more glimpse of my Stella before we were loaded. Now I would have to wait until we reached our destination, wherever that was.

Page 29
“Forty Men or Eight Horses” was stenciled on the side of the cattle car. I followed Jonny up the rain-slicked ramp. We squeezed inside and began jockeying with the others for a spot where we could comfortably sit on our luggage. When the Nazis locked the door, silence fell over us. It was as if we had all stopped to admire how a single action utterly defined our predicament."
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Nazgul »

Nessie wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 8:23 am
You are yet again proving me correct. Olszuk did not work in TII and he could not see the entirety of what was happening inside, you are lying. He also does not evidence mass transports of people leaving the camp, which you ignore.
He could see everything going on. There were no mass transports to the camp so of course there would be none leaving.
I have linked to his book, so how about you quote him talking about working at the ramp inside Birkenau?
Read the book or shut up. Finding a few quotes means little out of context.

Correct, since he was never inside a Krema, yet you try to pass him off as an eyewitness who is in your favour!
He never saw anyone go to the Kremas at all. You are talking about non events. Read the book or go away.
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Nessie »

Nazgul wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 8:47 am
Nessie wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 8:23 am
You are yet again proving me correct. Olszuk did not work in TII and he could not see the entirety of what was happening inside, you are lying. He also does not evidence mass transports of people leaving the camp, which you ignore.
He could see everything going on. There were no mass transports to the camp so of course there would be none leaving.
His statement, for what it is, contains very little detail and he was never even asked about transports, which are well evidenced.
I have linked to his book, so how about you quote him talking about working at the ramp inside Birkenau?
Read the book or shut up. Finding a few quotes means little out of context.
I do not believe your claim he was a ramp Kapo in Birkenau. Hence, despite being given the book, you refuse to provide any quotes.
Correct, since he was never inside a Krema, yet you try to pass him off as an eyewitness who is in your favour!
He never saw anyone go to the Kremas at all. You are talking about non events. Read the book or go away.
Prove he saw transports arrive inside Birkenau and the subsequent selections.
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Re: Treblinka/Malkinia and the Missing Witness Statements

Post by Nazgul »

Nessie wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 10:55 am
I do not believe your claim he was a ramp Kapo in Birkenau. Hence, despite being given the book, you refuse to provide any quotes.

Prove he saw transports arrive inside Birkenau and the subsequent selections.
Your beliefs are of little relevence. The proof is in the book.
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