Alleged Treblinka extermination location

[Nazgul]

Treblinka Extermination Camp location.

This has been posted elsewhere, but as an ongoing research project with very limited funds, I would like those interested to discuss the issues outlined below.

There are many conflicting reports on the location of the Treblinka extermination camp, from Malkinia, Czerwony -bor, TII KZ judenlager and Kosow Laski (Podlaski). The first interesting point was the first Wiernik map of Treblinka which was rectangle and puts the camp next to the Warsaw line to Malkinia. I am responding to another poster here, but here is the gist. I will add more as I find many scattered files from lost hardware.

Can you show me on the map exactly? Google maps. I am wondering where you position the camp in Malkinia called Treblinka.

The transit camp was located close to the top reddish tear drop in the image below. This camp is directly north of the Treblinka railway station.

To be fair this is well within walking distance of the camp and no trains needed. In fact there is no railway to this transit camp.


The Holocaust Encyclopedia puts the Treblinka camp NW 4 km. From where the Treblinka station was, 4km NW was marked out until it reaches the current railway line to Warsaw. this is the end of the yellow line. This fits in with Wierniks first map that places Treblinka next to and south of the Warsaw-Bialystok trunk line.

Here is Wierniks first map. He has North, NE to his camp location. This is an issue as the railway runs directly east to west, with north being directly straight up.


Potential location on Google Earth.



Being out in compass direction is common in the maps of the Treblinka camps. As you may well know, the current location called TII lay alongside the Malkinia - Siedlce railway line. This used to run in a North- South direction where the camp is. The following map of Treblinka II site has north pointing towards the East; this is entirely the wrong map orientation.


The error is repeated in other maps, perhaps copied from the first. These maps were apparently drawn by professional cartographer or surveyor; I find it hard to believe that a professional could make such an amateurish mistake.

Below is a modern map. Note the error is corrected.



I realise that both maps are on slightly different angles, so the Serveyors map was orientated 28 degrees so that the spur line is running close to parallel to each in both maps. The rotated image is below to compare and contrast the position North in both maps. The bottom map does correspond with the current location of TII but the surveyors maps do not. Either the surveyor is not worth the salt he is paid to, or he has surveyed another area.




North is still well out. If surveyors can get it wrong, I am sure Wiernik could as well.

Keep in mind that just south of the current TII was purported to be the extermination camp of Kosow Podlaski. This was confirmed by the elders of the village of Wolka Okraglik. Here is the CIA entry.



The early CIA had the following entry for the Treblinka camps; they thought Malkinia was a correctional centre.


From this the current TII, is the Judenlager, called a kz in the entry. TIII has been placed in the Czerwony bor forest. This needs more investigation.

"The Treblinka-III camp was listed as "the death camp" for the Jews and was reported to be located at Czerwony Bor. As late as in 1944, its existence was also mentioned in the renowned wartime publication Ghetto Speaks published in New York (Encl. 6). The remote Czerwony Bor (Red Forest) was (and is) located forty kilometers north of the Treblinka-I and Treblinka-II camps. Additional documents regarding Treblinka-III are available from the Polish Historical Society in the USA (tel. 203--325--1079) and archives of the Polish Underground Study Trust in London (tel. 011-4481-992-6057)."...John Demjanjuk amicus curiae

Czerwony bor is now the site of a current penal institution.

[borjastick]

Wiernik was a gibbering, hysterical liar paid a few hundred shekels to bleat on camera about what happened, how terrible it was and what a crime was committed against dem joos. Just for a laugh everyone should watch his TV interview to see that his story was written for him about two minutes before he went in front of the camera at a time when no one could have foreseen technical and scientific research advances would smash the lies of the holocaust within a short period of time.

But the Treblinka story was set and to this day we have believers, like those who come here, and more technical bods like Caroline Sturdey Colls tying themselves in knots and tripping themselves up to make the claims stand up. They don't.

I have no doubt that Treblinka and Malkinia were transit camps or used as tea stops for a few hours and nothing more. Sure there would have been some who died en route and were buried or cremated there etc but when someone claims that 800k jews were transported to T2 offloaded and then gassed on site only to be mass buried, then dug up and cremated I wonder what universe do they inhabit. It is total nonsense.

Submarine engines anyone?

[Nazgul]

I have no doubt that Treblinka and Malkinia were transit camps or used as tea stops for a few hours and nothing more. Sure there would have been some who died en route and were buried or cremated there etc but when someone claims that 800k jews were transported to T2 offloaded and then gassed on site only to be mass buried, then dug up and cremated I wonder what universe do they inhabit. It is total nonsense.

Submarine engines anyone?

Malkinia was a transit camp, two inmates who were sent to Aushwitz identified it as such. It is known and reported by

Code: Select all

www.deutschland-ein-denkmal.de/ded/start

a German research group (now offline) that Treblinka had two Judenlagers attached to the Quarry; two camps, one for men and women respectively. The proximity to TI and the information by Olszuk makes this likely. Of course every KZ was a transit camp, even Birkenau.

The survivor testimony to me proves that aktion 14f13 did occur at Sobibor (decrepit euthanasia). As you know there are reports of the elderly dying on transports, so they are sent over the rainbow bridge before that happens. At Sobibor it is clear this was done by shooting.

The judenlager (TII) was quite different. Unlike Sobibor which apparently was empty much of the time, Treblinka was full according to Olszuk.

I agree with you, to many the knowledge of elderly euthanasia (not just Jews) morphed into mass murder of Jews.

[erichunt420]

Wiernik was a gibbering, hysterical liar paid a few hundred shekels to bleat on camera about what happened, how terrible it was and what a crime was committed against dem joos. Just for a laugh everyone should watch his TV interview to see that his story was written for him about two minutes before he went in front of the camera at a time when no one could have foreseen technical and scientific research advances would smash the lies of the holocaust within a short period of time.

But the Treblinka story was set and to this day we have believers, like those who come here, and more technical bods like Caroline Sturdey Colls tying themselves in knots and tripping themselves up to make the claims stand up. They don't.

I have no doubt that Treblinka and Malkinia were transit camps or used as tea stops for a few hours and nothing more. Sure there would have been some who died en route and were buried or cremated there etc but when someone claims that 800k jews were transported to T2 offloaded and then gassed on site only to be mass buried, then dug up and cremated I wonder what universe do they inhabit. It is total nonsense.

Submarine engines anyone?

You got any proof where these Jews went or what? What do you tell the Jews who never saw their family members again where they went? Seeing some strawmen here. Who cares if one source said submarine engines.

You could get murderous criminals to exterminate groups of people easily. Barely even need any guards if you trick them into going into a closed building. Even an entirely wooden one anyone can literally gas anyone in an entirely wooden building no problem.

I have questions and don't like some things however the deniers are lame and emotional and kneejerk and where's the beef basically? I don't even see an alternate theory just "it just didn't okay" - um no?

[erichunt420]

Wiernik was a gibbering, hysterical liar paid a few hundred shekels to bleat on camera about what happened, how terrible it was and what a crime was committed against dem joos. Just for a laugh everyone should watch his TV interview to see that his story was written for him about two minutes before he went in front of the camera at a time when no one could have foreseen technical and scientific research advances would smash the lies of the holocaust within a short period of time.

But the Treblinka story was set and to this day we have believers, like those who come here, and more technical bods like Caroline Sturdey Colls tying themselves in knots and tripping themselves up to make the claims stand up. They don't.

I have no doubt that Treblinka and Malkinia were transit camps or used as tea stops for a few hours and nothing more. Sure there would have been some who died en route and were buried or cremated there etc but when someone claims that 800k jews were transported to T2 offloaded and then gassed on site only to be mass buried, then dug up and cremated I wonder what universe do they inhabit. It is total nonsense.

Submarine engines anyone?

You got any proof where these Jews went or what? What do you tell the Jews who never saw their family members again where they went? Seeing some strawmen here. Who cares if one source said submarine engines.

You could get murderous criminals to exterminate groups of people easily. Barely even need any guards if you trick them into going into a closed building. Even an entirely wooden one anyone can literally gas anyone in an entirely wooden building no problem.

I have questions and don't like some things and don't trust Colls or ahem certain orthodox weirdos you know those guys who fuck through holes in sheets however the deniers are lame and emotional and kneejerk and where's the beef basically? I don't even see an alternate theory just "it just didn't okay" - um no? This doesn't fly in a DEBATE you know an actual DEBATE with people taught real DEBATE rules and DEBATE tactics and DEBATE moderation and "scoring".