A New Revisionist Interpretation of Operation Reinhardt

[Nazgul]

What was the operation that resettled 300,000 Jews from Warsaw in the east, once AR had seized all their property? Which ministry ran that operation? Who was the overall commander? Is there any record of Globocnik meeting that person to coordinate his role with seizing all of their property, with the other's role of resettling the people?

Always assumptions. 1,000 Jewish males from the Warsaw ghetto, including about 150 youth between the ages of 13 and 16 were transported on 28-29 May 1942 to the camp in Bobruysk. This was a month before the alleged resettlement occurred. Small and Lesser-Known Camps: The Example of Bobruysk and Other Camps

The second transport left the Warsaw ghetto at the end of July 1942.

[PrudentRegret]

If Operation Reinhardt were the code-name for extermination (which it wasn't, and you admit that it wasn't even a code-name for extermination at Auschwitz whereas "Reinhardt" was a code-name for an economic use action at Auschwitz), then the WVHA, Pohl, Frank, all would have known about it. Frank did not testify that it came only from Jews who had died, Frank said that the confiscated property came also from the liquidated ghettos.

One more document I forgot to mention in this respect is the Frank-Gricksch Trip Report on the Journey to Poland (the real report, not the fake attachment), May 1943:

From Taviniki we travelled back to Lublin to inspect the special enterprise REINHARD. This branch has had the task of realising all mobile Jewish property in the Gouvernment Poland. It is astonishing what immense fortunes the Jews have collected in their ghetto... We wandered through the cellars of this "special enterprise" and we were reminded of the fairy tales of the "Arabian Nights"...

That's another contemporary document that plainly describes the meaning of "Operation Reinhardt" is what I am saying here, and the same meaning deduced by the NMT Pohl trial.

How strange it is to say "Operation Reinhardt was the code-name for extermination" when nobody uses it as a code-name for extermination and they all understand it to be a code-name for an economic use action for which the Finance Ministry of State Secretary Reinhardt was ultimately the owner of the proceeds from the operation?

[PrudentRegret]

Globocnik brags about the mass disinfestation of clothing as part of Operation Reinhardt in his final report to Himmler:

Textiles, garments, underclothing, bed feathers and rags were collected and sorted according to their quality. The sorted articles had to be searched for hidden valuables and finally disinfected. More than 1,900 wagons were then placed at the disposal of the authorities named by the Reich Ministry of Economy by order of the SS Economic and Administrative Head Office. Out of these stocks not only foreign workers were clothed but a large portion was used for re-manufacture. No case of sickness became known, although these garments frequently came from persons suffering from spotted typhus. The disinfection therefore was adequate\.

The delousing chambers constructed by the SS Fur and Clothing Works, under Christian Wirth, at Majdanek, became associated with mass extermination facilities by witness testimony and Soviet-Polish investigation. No doubt the same happened at the delousing facilities constructed for the same purpose in the other districts like Warsaw. T-II was an outpost of the SS Fur and Clothing Works to conduct Operation Reinhardt, which was Globocnik's special task that spanned the whole General Government- the economic use action, not the deportation action which was not "Operation Reinhardt". There are many documents that refer to the Warsaw deportations, 0 documents use "Reinhardt" to describe or otherwise use as a code for the Warsaw deportation actions. All documents which refer to "Reinhardt" in this respect pertain to the administration of confiscated property.

[PrudentRegret]

One of Pohl's advisors in the WVHA trial attesting to the political significance of State Secretary Reinhardt, and the use of his name in describing the "Reinhardt Funds." He even dismisses the suggestion that "Reinhardt" referred to Heydrich specifically:

Q. What did you think the Reinhardt Fund was?

A. The Reinhardt Fund I understood or thought to understand that the state secretary Reinhardt from the Reich Finance Ministry, who was an exponent of the Part and who was a friend of Schwerin von Krusiqk, who was Reich Finance Minister, had placed those funds at the disposal of the DWB. Reinhardt was also known to me from his work and his activity during peacetime for the very simple reason that he introduced in Germany communal administration in the big Reinhardt Reform which was the real taxation reform. He also established the Reinhardt Interest Bonuses. He compiled and wrote several books about taxation laws. Apart from that, all new taxes and finance reforms were actually taken care of by Reinhardt according to both the press and the propaganda. Furthermore, Reinhardt was written with "dt" at the end in this letter and as far as I know today Reinhard is spelled with a "d" at the end rather than a "dt". Apart from that, Herr Pohl once called me to his office, in Frank's presence, and told me that the Reich Finance Ministry wanted to give a credit to the DWB, if this would be possible.

All I could understand from this was that this was actually a fund which was placed at the disposal of the DWB by the second highest official in the Reich Finance Ministry.

BY JUDGE MUSMANNO:

Q. May I ask a question, please?

Is it customary for the name of the Minister to be attached to a purely governmental function?

A. I'm afraid the translation didn't quite get through, Your Honor.

Q. I'll put the question very specifically. The Reinhardt of whom you speak was Assistant Minister of the Treasury? Is that what I understand? Ministry of Finance, yes?

A. Yes, that's right. Graf Schwerin von Krossigk was the Minister. The State Secretary was Reinhardt. Schwerin von Krossigk was the professional man and was Reich Minister even prior to 1933, and state secretary Reinhardt was SA Obergruppenfuehrer.

Q. Anything coming out of the Ministry of Finance wouldn't bear the name of the Minister as such, would it, being a purely governmental operation?

A. Yes, but as I have stated before, the real taxation reform was also called the Reinhardt real tax reform. I have to understand from that if this fund is called "the Reinhardt Fund" that the Reich Finance Ministry placed certain monies at the disposal of the DWB.

Q. I can understand how, in the newspapers, the name could be attached to the operation, but, within the government itself, if it is a governmental action, I cannot understand why the name Reinhardt would be used.

A. Yes, Mr. Federal Judge, such names in particular were chosen. You see, series of actions received the names of leading personalities. The reason why this was done was that the Fuehrer principle was to be shown more clearly by doing that.

In Germany, even in governmental circles, one never spoke of a cabinet or a government, one always spoke of the man.

BY DR. GAWLIK:

Q. Witness, perhaps you can answer the following question.

Would you please explain to the Tribunal, witness, the personality of the Finance Minister Schwerin Krossigk and the personality of Reinhardt. Tell us which of the two was the most important person and why it was not at all difficult to understand that fund wasn't called according to the name Schwerin von Krossigk but rather according to the State Secretary? what part did von Krossigk play in social life and what was the role of Mr. Reinhardt in public life?

A. Mr. Defense Counsel, if I, as a rather young person, have to give you a judgment or my opinion on these two personalities I have to say that von Krossigk was the most important one of the two because he was a sensible, professionally very skilled man who, step by step, actually worked his way up to the position of Minister. Even in the democratic regime, Herr Reinhardt, up to 1933, was nothing but a simple teacher in a business school. It was only through the help of the Party that he became a SA-Gruppenfuehrer and SA Obergruppenfuehrer. It was he then who was placed a bit higher as an exponent of the Party, and all these things which von Krossigk had done to the German Reich while working hard, the financing, etc, all this, during the war, was said to have been done by Reinhardt. You could read in the paper: "Herr Reinhardt, and Reinhardt again." Reinhardt held speeches at every conference. The people in the Finance Ministry knew that the real man behind it all was von Krossigk. Others knew that, but we all knew that Reinhardt would be the one credited with everything. That was the reason that I didn't have a single doubt that Reinhardt was the man who had given the fund.

[PrudentRegret]

One significant point that Sergey Romanov from HolocaustControversies brought up:

Globocnik's detailed final reports to Himmler on Operation Reinhardt describe it plainly as an economic use action, even though "deportations" are identified as a "sphere" of the operation, obviously because Operation Reinhardt dealt with the administration of property which was confiscated during the deportation and liquidation process.

But that begs the question, if "Operation Reinhardt" were the grand code-name for all the deportations in General Government, then why doesn't Globocnik's final reports to Himmler report on the deportations themselves?

Sergey has suggested there was some other final report sent to Himmler, lost to history, which gave the details on the "deportation aspect" of Operation Reinhardt. His basis for this is the verbiage in Globocnik's report to Himmler on the economic results of Operation Reinhardt:

I am taking the liberty of submitting to you in the enclosure a report on the economic management of the Action Reinhardt, since you, Reichsführer, ordered in your letter of 22.09.1943 that I should have it [i.e. AR] completed and handed over by 31.12.1943. However also the recognition given to me for the Action impels me to give you, Reichsführer, an account of the economic side, so that you, Reichsführer, thereby see that also on this side the work was in order.

So Sergey was saying "there was an economic side to the AR, and there was some other side too, since he writes 'that *also* on this side the work was in order' which makes no sense, unless there was some other side." Here is what he writes:

Globocnik's 1944 report on the economic part of AR is thus additional and was only delivered optionally (Globocnik explained that he felt the need to do so to show that everything was alright *also* on the economic part of the AR, contrary to his reputation on that score, as he writes)

But if we look at the letter Globocnik mentioned from Himmler on 22.09.1943, Globocnik was ordered to submit the economic settlement of the Reinhardt action to Pohl. But Globocnik took the liberty of sending the report to Himmler, because Globocnik wanted to get ahead of any scrutiny that would fall onto him. In particular, Globocnik took some loans from foreign currency which got him in trouble.

Therefore, this report does not indicate there was a separate report on the "non-economic part of Operation Reinhardt", it just means that Globocnik was supposed to submit a settlement of accounts to Pohl but he took the liberty of sending them to Himmler, also, so he could see everything was in order.

[PrudentRegret]

Adding to the pile of testimony, Rudolf Hoess's explanation of what "Aktion Reinhardt" referred to:

‘Aktion Reinhardt’ was the code name given to the collection, sorting and utilisation of all articles which were acquired as the result of the transports of Jews and their extermination.

So this definition is given by Hoess, by Frank-G, by the WVHA, by the NMT, and in Globocnik's report to Himmler on the Administrative Development of Operation Reinhardt.

Mainstream historian Fitzgibbons accepts this facts but makes some errors in interpretation:

If the above theory is correct, it would suggest that Fritz Reinhardt was the person in charge of “Aktion Reinhardt”. That is entirely possible, since all proceeds from the disposal of the personal possessions seized from the deported Jews had to be handed over to the Department of Finance, so it is logical that that department would be in charge of the whole operation. That would mean that Odilo Globocnik, the SSPF for Distrikt Lublin, was not in charge of “Aktion Reinhardt”, as has commonly been supposed, but was only responsible for that part of the Aktion that took place in his Distrikt, ie at the Lublin-Majdanek Concentration Camp and at the Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka camps. Hoess was presumably responsible for the operation of “Aktion Reinhardt” at Auschwitz, with Hoess, Globocnik and other camp commanders being ultimately responsible to Reinhardt for the materials collected in the course of the Aktion.

The possibility, indeed likelihood, that “Aktion Reinhardt” took its name from the State Secretary of the Department of Finance reveals a delicious irony of history, since Odilo Globocnik and Fritz Reinhardt were deadly enemies. Globocnik was an “Altkaempfer” of the Austrian Nazi Party who had been made Gauleiter of Vienna shortly after the Anschluss in 1938. However, in 1939 he had been forced to resign his position due to allegations of flagrant corruption that had been brought against him by Fritz Reinhardt. Himmler gave Globocnik a way out by appointing him SSPF of Distrikt Lublin in newly conquered Poland. The idea was that Globocnik should redeem himself in his new post from the stains on his reputation arising from the corruption allegations. But even in Lublin Globocnik was not safe from Reinhardt, who continued to investigate his financial affairs. Even the WVHA, to which of course Globocnik did not belong, regarded him with some suspicion as a bit of a “loose cannon” of dubious origin (he was a Croat from Trieste). It must have been galling for Globocnik to have been made responsible for the operation in Distrikt Lublin of a program of handling valuables named after his arch-enemy. Maybe the name “Reinhardt” was intended to remind him that he was being watched, given his reputation for light-fingeredness.

In 1944, Globocnik rendered to Himmler a detailed report on the operation of “Aktion Reinhardt” in Distrikt Lublin. This report included a detailed accounting of the value of the possessions seized from the deported Jews and their disposal. The context of the report makes it apparent that Globocnik was again under suspicion of having diverted some of the proceeds from the confiscated Jewish property into his own pockets; he produced the report in an attempt to clear his name. Of course it is true that the German camp staff did steal a large amount of the confiscated valuables.

Fitzgibbon says exactly what I am saying with one caveat:

That would mean that Odilo Globocnik, the SSPF for Distrikt Lublin, was not in charge of “Aktion Reinhardt”, as has commonly been supposed, but was only responsible for that part of the Aktion that took place in his Distrikt, ie at the Lublin-Majdanek Concentration Camp and at the Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka camps. Hoess was presumably responsible for the operation of “Aktion Reinhardt” at Auschwitz, with Hoess, Globocnik and other camp commanders being ultimately responsible to Reinhardt for the materials collected in the course of the Aktion.

My caveat is that Globocnik WAS in charge of "Aktion Reinhardt" throughout the entire General Government, not just Lublin. Treblinka is not in the Lublin district. The SS Fur and Clothing Works, Lublin administration of the sorting camp we call "T-II" in the Warsaw district would represent Globocnik's GG-wide responsibility for the administration of confiscated valuables. This is also indicated by the Katzmann report as earlier stated, that Globocnik was responsible for this Aktion throughout the entire General Government and not just his district of Lublin.

[bombsaway]

My caveat is that Globocnik WAS in charge of "Aktion Reinhardt" throughout the entire General Government, not just Lublin. Treblinka is not in the Lublin district. The SS Fur and Clothing Works, Lublin administration of the sorting camp we call "T-II" in the Warsaw district would represent Globocnik's GG-wide responsibility for the administration of confiscated valuables. This is also indicated by the Katzmann report as earlier stated, that Globocnik was responsible for this Aktion throughout the entire General Government and not just his district of Lublin.

I think the important thing here is even assuming you are correct that Action Reinhardt had nothing to do with killing, it doesn't substantially change things.

There's still all these facts you avoid

A) There was massive Jewish population drop in the GG during the time of this action, from over 2 million to 300,000 (according to Korherr by 1943). Even if you say Korherr fabricated the low number of Jews residing in the GG, it's clear there was a massive population drop. The ghettos were gone and there isn't any evidence of new camps in Poland that could accommodate the wave of deportees.

B) Jews (mostly non-employable) were delivered on mass to camps with the name Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. You avoid this evidence, fine.

C) Resettled Jews were definitively euthanized in the Warthe, the document says 100,000 (from the Greiser correspondence, which you haven't touched) This gives credence to Korherr's "transported to the Russian east/given special treatment" means killed, it includes population from the Warthe in this. Goebbels document also talks of mass liquidation of Jews, the majority of those in the GG.

To sum up, Globocnik may have orchestrated Action Reinhardt, a campaign of theft, enslavement and eventual deliverance to select extermination facilities. So killing was literally not part of Action Reinhardt, but all these Jews were killed right after, by Globocnik in a separate, perhaps unnamed operation. It wouldn't be even a pie to the face for historians, because Action Reinhardt clearly has *something* to do with killing since people are being delivered to those exact places. Accessory to murder.

Your theory (if correct) doesn't contradict the mainstream story in a measurable way. It doesn't contradict the mainstream interpretation of a document like this, or offer any sort of a reasonable explanation for it. You don't touch this document either, though it's totally topical, referencing Globocnik by name. Any objective party should find your avoidance of such evidence highly pertinent.

Viktor Brack
SS-Oberführer Berlin, IV 8, Voss-Strasse 4, 23 June 1942
[Initial] HH Top Secret To the Reich Leader SS and
Chief of the German Police
Heinrich Himmler,
Berlin SW 11, Prinz Albrecht Str. 8
Dear Reich Leader,

On the instructions of Reich Leader [Reichsleiter] Bouhler I placed some of my men - already some time ago - at the disposal of Brigadeführer Globocnik to execute his special mission. On his renewed request I have now transferred additional personnel. On this occasion Brigadeführer Globocnik stated his opinion that the whole Jewish action should be completed as quickly as possible so that one would not get caught in the middle of it one day if some difficulties should make a stoppage of the action necessary. You, yourself, Reich Leader, have already expressed your view, that work should progress quickly for reasons of camouflage alone. Both points which in principle arrive at the same result are more than justified as far as my own experience goes;

Among 10 millions of Jews in Europe there are, I figure, at least 2-3 millions of men and women who are fit enough to work. Considering the extraordinary difficulties the labour problem presents us with, I hold the view that those 3 millions should be specially selected and preserved. [...]21

[Nessie]

....
The deportation of 300,000 Jews from Warsaw was not "Operation Reinhard." Globocnik's responsibility for the confiscated property- sorting it and transporting it to the Reich Ministry of Finance - was Operation Reinhardt. This was named after the State Secretary Reinhardt of the Finance Ministry which was the ultimate recipient of the confiscated valuables.

In relation to the 300,000 Jews deported from the Warsaw ghetto, where was the property confiscated? Was it when they were still in Warsaw, as they departed, or elsewhere after they left? Please show witness, documentary or other physical evidence to prove your claim.

[Nazgul]

In relation to the 300,000 Jews deported from the Warsaw ghetto, where was the property confiscated? Was it when they were still in Warsaw, as they departed, or elsewhere after they left? Please show witness, documentary or other physical evidence to prove your claim.

The real property was not the trinkets they carried, but the real estate sequestered to the Reich, including business properties that allowed German businesses of similar nature to flourish. While Irene Zisblatt may have eaten diamonds every morning after ablutions, this was probably not the norm.

[PrudentRegret]

To sum up, Globocnik may have orchestrated Action Reinhardt, a campaign of theft, enslavement and eventual deliverance to select extermination facilities. So killing was literally not part of Action Reinhardt, but all these Jews were killed right after, by Globocnik in a separate, perhaps unnamed operation. It wouldn't be even a pie to the face for historians, because Action Reinhardt clearly has *something* to do with killing since people are being delivered to those exact places. Accessory to murder.

Your theory (if correct) doesn't contradict the mainstream story in a measurable way. It doesn't contradict the mainstream interpretation of a document like this, or offer any sort of a reasonable explanation for it. You don't touch this document either, though it's totally topical, referencing Globocnik by name. Any objective party should find your avoidance of such evidence highly pertinent.

It's a bigger problem than you realize. One of the biggest weaknesses of mainstream historiography is its inability to point to any policy framework, written orders, or anything like that which points to a policy of systematic extermination. The mainstream claim that "Operation Reinhard was the codename for the extermination of the Jews" is meant to tie the alleged extermination policy to a real-life policy that is referenced in extant documents. So "no, 'Operation Reinhard' was not the codename for the extermination of the Jews" would be another setback in the infinite permutations of positions that historians hold regarding the development of this fictional "extermination policy."

The other big implication of this fact is that it presents a third alternative to the debate over the purpose of the camp we all call "Treblinka." Some Revisionists have outright said the transit camp hypothesis is the only alternative to the extermination camp hypothesis. But that's not true. This understanding of Operation Reinhardt would fully explain the existence of Treblinka as a secret sorting camp. The functionality of Treblinka as a sorting camp is the only functionality which is absolutely proven from every angle: documentary, testimonial, archaeological. The camp is explicitly identified as a Work Camp by Eberl, which would align with this hypothesis.

The only assumption required to accept the hypothesis that "Treblinka" was a sorting camp for Operation Reinhardt (the real Operation Reinhardt) is that witnesses were wrong about the mass arrival of hundreds of thousands of Jews to what Eberl called "Work Camp Treblinka". But if we look at the huge contradictions among the witness testimony, especially in the maps drawn by witnesses, along with the lack of documentation for the transport of hundreds of thousands of Jews to this camp, it seems everyone is thoroughly confused as to exactly what the "Treblinka Extermination Camp" was supposed to have been.

The highly contradictory accounts settled on the Treblinka sorting camp because of the material culture found there- large amounts of discarded and buried personal property. Things like the Treblinka Gold Rush, the black market in the Treblinka area, all of these are also explained by the Sorting Camp hypothesis.

It should also be noted that the mass arrival and extermination of Jews was attested to by witnesses and investigators at Majdanek, whereas those facilities were also constructed by the SS Fur and Clothing Works under the command of Christian Wirth in order to conduct Operation Reinhardt. This interpretation would suggest that what happened at Majdanek- witnesses and investigators identifying an economic use action as a secret extermination and cremation operation, happened at multiple facilities that engaged in Operation Reinhardt.

Remember, investigators said that 2 million people were murdered by Majdanek. I take it for a grain of salt that 800,000 Jews ever set foot in the camp called "Work Camp Treblinka".

The evidence is fully explained by the Sorting Camp hypothesis, and the repeated inability of witnesses and investigators to properly identify the nature and purpose of the operation Reinhardt.

Assuming Treblinka was a sorting camp for Operation Reinhardt, that would entail the use of that industrial spur for many trainloads of "raw" personal property to be sorted, deloused, etc. No doubt many onlookers or bad actors could "interpret" those trains as millions of Jews going in with none coming out. It happened at Majdanek.

None of this is to dispute that Globocnik was indeed responsible for deportations in his District and administration of transit camps in his District, like Sobibor. But "Operation Reinhardt" pertained specifically to the administration of confiscated property, not the deportation of the Jews themselves although it was related to the operation for obvious reasons.

[Nessie]

... The functionality of Treblinka as a sorting camp is the only functionality which is absolutely proven from every angle: documentary, testimonial, archaeological. The camp is explicitly identified as a Work Camp by Eberl, which would align with this hypothesis.

....

What documents, witnesses and archaeology are you referring to?

There are documents that refer to transports of people to TII (Hofle, Stroop, Ganzemueller & ghetto transports), but which refer to the transport of property?

What witness who worked inside TII are you referring to? Various witnesses, Krzepicki, Bomba, Glazar, refer to removal and sorting of property, including hair, but they also speak to mass transports of people and gassings.

There are certainly archaeological finds of personal property items. If you believe the archaeologists who report those finds, do you believe their other finds, in particular cremated remains and large pits?

Where did Eberl identify TII as a work camp?

[bombsaway]

It's a bigger problem than you realize. One of the biggest weaknesses of mainstream historiography is its inability to point to any policy framework, written orders, or anything like that which points to a policy of systematic extermination. The mainstream claim that "Operation Reinhard was the codename for the extermination of the Jews" is meant to tie the alleged extermination policy to a real-life policy that is referenced in extant documents. So "no, 'Operation Reinhard' was not the codename for the extermination of the Jews" would be another setback in the infinite permutations of positions that historians hold regarding the development of this fictional "extermination policy."

According to orthodoxy there's no name for the killings at Auschwitz, there's no name for what happened at Chelmno, there's no name for the Police targeted killings in the East. If they made a mistake regarding the delineation between Reinhardt/ the extermination camps the Jews were delivered to through Reinhardt, this is a very minor error. I should also point out that you are the first revisionist, as far as I know, to make these precise arguments. That means that you're not dealing with obvious matters. You're seeing things that even revisionists, who are super scrupulous, have missed. So if the mainstream has made an error here, that's also understandable.

Your criticism of not enough evidence (One of the biggest weaknesses of mainstream historiography is its inability to point to any policy framework, written orders, or anything like that which points to a policy of systematic extermination), rings hollow based on two facts

a) you've ignored documents like the Goebbels dairy entry, the Greiser correspondence which I've brought up in this very thread. These documents point to systematic killing operations and of course there are others.

b) you have far less evidence, documentary or otherwise, of the Jews being "resettled" as Himmler stated in his orders to the entire GG https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/hi ... l-solution It's ridiculously hypocritical.


"The other big implication of this fact is that it presents a third alternative to the debate over the purpose of the camp we all call "Treblinka." Some Revisionists have outright said the transit camp hypothesis is the only alternative to the extermination camp hypothesis. But that's not true."

"Since 22.7. a train with 5 000 Jews goes daily from Warsaw via Malkinia to Treblinka. Furthermore there is a train with 5 000 Jews going from Przemysl to Belzec twice a week. Gedob is constantly in touch with the security service in Cracow, who agrees that the transports from Warsaw via Lublin to Sobibor (near Lublin) rest as long as the conversion works on this line make transports impossible (until October 1942)" The trains are agreed with the commander of the Security Police in the General Government. The Head of SS and Police for the Lublin district, SS-Brigadeführer Globocnik, has been informed.

Work Report
12 April 1943
Subject: Escorting the Jewish Transports
On the basis of a telephoned command from SS Haupsturmführer Danker, the train left Skopje on March 23, 1943, at 12:00, escorted by platoon No. 1, which comprised thirty men and was commanded by Police Sergeant Buchner. The train arrived at 23:00. On March 29, at 06:00, the loading of 2,404 Jews onto freight cars commenced at the former tobacco sheds. Loading was completed at 12:00, and at 12:30 the train departed. The train passed through Albanian territory. The final destination, Treblinka (the camp), was reached on April 5, 1943, at 07:00, via Czestochowa, Piotrkow, Warsaw. The train was unloaded that same day between the hours 09:00 and 11:00. Incidents: Five Jews died en route. On the night of March 31 - an elderly man, aged eighty-five; on April 3 - an elderly woman, aged ninety-four and a six-month-old child. On April 4 an elderly woman aged ninety-nine died.

Transport Roster: received 2,404
less 5
total delivered at Treblinka
2,399

[signed] Karl, Military Police Lieutenant and Company Commander.

Why do you avoid discussing documents like this? Why do you avoid my question about where these Jews were kept once they got to "final destination" Treblinka, as well as Belzec and Sobibor? (all mentioned in the same breath in the first document)

[PrudentRegret]

The train transport documents show "Treblinka" as the final destination, with stops along the way. But the destination could not have been the camp Eberl calls "Work Camp Treblinka." Even the mainstream position is that the "Treblinka Work Camp" was not the final destination of the train. The train stopped in Malkinia or Treblinka station, and then a separate engine brought the cars to the Treblinka "Work Camp." I am disputing that this is what happened. A separate engine for the industrial spur that led to T-II and T-I obviously makes sense for economic and industrial purposes.

There are documents showing transports to the Treblinka station, but there are no documents of a shunting operation bringing hundreds of thousands of people to that camp. So these documents do not refer to what we call "Treblinka" as the destination of the train, because by all accounts it was not the destination of the train. A separate train actually brought the deportees to the camp according to the mainstream. But this is not documented and not indicated in any existing transport documents.

Even the mainstream position is not that "Treblinka II" was the destination of these trains, they claim a different, undocumented train actually brought the deportees there.

Existing documents have these transports going through Malkinia, often with Malkinia as the destination, or with Treblinka as the destination. There is no documentation for the shunting trains that supposedly brought 800,000 people to that small camp.

[PrudentRegret]

Documents also suggest a transit camp at Malkinia, which was a major railroad junction, i.e.

On December 10, 1942, the transport that had left the Malkinia transit camp on December 10, 1942, reached KL Auschwitz with 2,500 Jews and undesirable elements.

I do not think the "Malkinia transit camp" is a reference to T-II.

Transport documents also show these Jewish transports stopping for i.e. 20 minutes at Malkinia. Perhaps references to the destination "Treblinka" are a reference to a transit camp at Malkinia or facilities in the immediate area. Treblinka station is very close to Malkinia. It makes perfect sense for a major junction at the border like Malkinia to have transit facilities in the immediate vacinity. What doesn't make sense is the undocumented shunting operation to this small camp a kilometer away from what is documented as the actual destination of these trains.

What these documents do not indicate though is the shunting operation from Treblinka to the T-II camp. Documents show the trains stopping at the train stations, not the T-II camp.

T-II is over 3 kilometers from the documented destination of those transports- Treblinka station. Treblinka station is closer to the Malkinia junction than it is to the T-II camp.

[borjastick]

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

This thread is entertaining yes of course but very frustrating for those few who are thus far residents of this parish. Because for the most part we are back doing the same old thing which is listening to holocaust believers, lie, obfuscate, split hairs, deflect, use irrelevant issues and who bring up and play the same old bullshit stories and quotes and tall stories, and fairy tales of how xxx thousands died, or were executed and the intention of this order or instruction from this leader or that senior party official meant gas chambers, mass industrialised murder and the ability of Harry Potter or David Blaine or Penn and Teller was called into action to make all evidence of said crimes disappear and not even a blade of grass was touched.

If you genuinely believe that the Nazis mass deaded one million, two million or whatever figure you are comfy with at Auschwitz or in any other camp you choose to reference please stop splashing water in our faces and for the love of God show some solid proof. The fact is that without bodies and gas chambers and any number of other acceptable pieces of forensics and technical proof we could be dancing around this tree until the second coming of Christ.