Are you sure that undocumented wood deliveries are a problem? All kinds of documentation didn't get preserved and it would make sense for Nazis to destroy any documentation of wood deliveries. Other revisionists elsewhere have posited document destruction for other things.
The argument is that because a few cord of wood was processed for building was sent to say Sobibor, or Treblinka, it would be easy for wood to be supplied. Sobibor was a logging camp prior to being used by the Germans for whatever purpose it was really used for. I know it was used for 14f13 to a small degree, as well as transiting to labour camps. Bor in the language of the area means forest as in our term arboreal. Huge swaths of forest were not cut down at Sobibor, none at Treblinka. There is data on the exact amount of coal or coke shipped to Birkenau for the Kremas. Certainly not enough for the highly exaggerated cremation claims.borjastick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:11 am Hence these wild stories of mass cremations etc are just that, stories. Impossible in the real world in both practicability and time.
The earliest reports of cremations inside the AR camps came late 1942, from Polish people who lived and worked near to the camps, reporting to the Government in Exiles intelligence. Why would people near to Belzec, Sobibor and TII all start to make that up?borjastick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:11 am As the holocaust story was being developed in the immediate aftermath of the war claims of a wild nature were being distributed. These were mainly designed to be shocking and force the holocaust myths down the throats of rather naive public of the day. People read the papers and heard the news on the radio and took at face value. Few questioned anything they were told by the press.
These stories of course included the cremation en masse of hundreds of thousands of bodies on open air pyres. Treblinka was one such location where we were told to believe that the 800,000 bodies which had all been buried in large pits after having been gassed, were then removed from the ground and burned to a crisp on griddle irons or railway tracks.
Since revisionists cannot produce any witness or archaeological evidence to prove that there were no mass cremations or large areas of disturbed ground, they need another way to claim that did not happen.No one thought to ask where the tens of thousands of tons of dried and suitable wood came from, was handled within the camp, was stored and was accounted for.
The problem for all these wild claims of the holocaust is science. The world moved on at a massive rate of knots after ww2, in just fifteen years man was circulating above the earth in tiny space ships. Things couldn't be claimed without the microscope of a rapidly advancing scientific world taking a look.
Hence these wild stories of mass cremations etc are just that, stories. Impossible in the real world in both practicability and time.
There are many reports of dead arriving with living passengers on transports. These were cremated.
You know the answer to that question.Nazgul wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 10:17 amThere are many reports of dead arriving with living passengers on transports. These were cremated.
'On 18 August 1942, Waffen SS officer Kurt Gerstein had witnessed at Belzec the arrival of "45 wagons with 6,700 people, of whom 1,450 were already dead on arrival". death trains
Explain how the dead on trains, cremated and buried, can be separated from those apparently murdered and processed in a similar manner. Did CSC identify a method?
Read the above again carefully, in bold. Please do not change what was asked.Nessie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:20 pmIt is up to revisionists to provide evidence that the only cremations were of people who had died on the trains, which poses a problem for you and PR, who claim that the transports were not arriving packed full of people. It is odd that you quote a Nazi who speaks to a mass transport, when you try to argue that the transports were dropping people off en route.Explain how the dead on trains, cremated and buried, can be separated from those apparently murdered and processed in a similar manner.
As I have already said, you already know the answer to your question. It is a loaded question, that suggests I have claimed that the cremated remains can be separated.Nazgul wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:26 pmRead the above again carefully, in bold. Please do not change what was asked.Nessie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:20 pmIt is up to revisionists to provide evidence that the only cremations were of people who had died on the trains, which poses a problem for you and PR, who claim that the transports were not arriving packed full of people. It is odd that you quote a Nazi who speaks to a mass transport, when you try to argue that the transports were dropping people off en route.Explain how the dead on trains, cremated and buried, can be separated from those apparently murdered and processed in a similar manner.
Why don't you quote the most impressive of these testimonies for us?Nessie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 10:05 am The earliest reports of cremations inside the AR camps came late 1942, from Polish people who lived and worked near to the camps, reporting to the Government in Exiles intelligence. Why would people near to Belzec, Sobibor and TII all start to make that up?
Those early reports were then corroborated by escaped prisoners, who all stated the cremations were not just of the newly dead, but also corpses exhumed from mass graves. That action, of exhumation and cremation, was being repeated all over the east, in the operation to hide how many people the Nazis were killing.
Mattogno originally assumed a 3.5 ratio in his work. This is saying 5x with active management. And closer to 9x if the pyre is left unattended. Muehlenkamp assumes something like 0.56 (sic!). And he assumes smaller bodies so all together he assumes about one tenth as much fuel as Mattogno says.The denser corpses are packed on a pyre, the less efficient a cremation is. Best results are obtained with only a single layer of corpses, with the corpses spaced apart to allow the fire to develop fully, and thus flames to engulf the corpse.
Fuel efficiency is highest when only a part of the firewood is placed beneath the corpse, and the rest then added gradually with the progressing cremation, to keep the fire lively and the corpse engulfed. With these conditions, “a minimum of 5 times the weight of the body in dry wood is necessary to achieve almost complete destruction of all organic matter (<10%).”
If all wood is stacked beneath the corpse, and the pyre is then left unattended, the fuel requirement increases to a “minimum of nine times the weight of the body in dry wood is necessary to achieve almost complete destruction of all organic matter (<10%).”
This question is off topic for the thread. I was referring to the high probability of people getting dropped off, referring only to those transports indicated in the Fplo documents. Whether special secretive trains arrived is another issue. There are instances of many dead arriving at the destination point, they would have to be dealt with, probably cremation. With all the rumours circulating around no doubt someone would have thought that they were the bodies of murdered victims. Hearing no shots they would conclude gas was used.
If we take your argument, though, then this invalidates the entire exterminationist position, which relies on the notion (as Nessie has emphasized repeatedly), that we cannot infer what 'makes sense' but, rather, only what is evidenced to have happened.fireofice wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:28 amAre you sure that undocumented wood deliveries are a problem? All kinds of documentation didn't get preserved and it would make sense for Nazis to destroy any documentation of wood deliveries. Other revisionists elsewhere have posited document destruction for other things.
NessieSince revisionists cannot produce any witness or archaeological evidence to prove that there were no mass cremations or large areas of disturbed ground, they need another way to claim that did not happen.