October 7 and the Palestinian-Israeli War

[InuYasha]

The war that Israel waged in the Gaza Strip after the Hamas attack on October 7th needs a separate thread.

So, after this, one of the largest conflicts in the Middle East (since the Yom Kippur War of 1973), began, it was surrounded by many controversies, with part of the population standing up for the Jews, and the other for the Arabs.

Hamas has long sought to eliminate Israeli statehood, calling Israel a "Zionist occupying state." At the same time, Israel is trying to eliminate Hamas as "Islamic terrorists."

During the 2023-25 ​​war, the IDF did indeed conduct a rather brutal operation in the Gaza Strip, including strikes on civilian infrastructure. Apparently, this was inevitable, since Hamas militants hid in civilian homes, using them as their bases. This does not justify violence against civilians not involved in terrorist activities - but it may shed light on the reasons for such attacks.

There is also an assumption that Netanyahu could have provoked the war (and is now seeking to start a new one) in order to stay in power and for the purposes of political consolidation. Unfortunately, this is not uncommon among politicians.

Some may say, like revisionists or supporters of the liberation of Chechnya (Ichkeria) from Russian invaders, that "IDF crimes in the Gaza Strip" are the beginning of the collapse of the "Holocaust myth" and support for Israel. I do not think this is true.

Apparently, the belief that Hitler exterminated the Jews from 1941 to 1945 will continue to exist throughout the 21st century. Moreover, there is no reason to believe that Israel as a state will cease to exist. The ideology of Baathism - Arab unity based on socialist justice - suffered a defeat after the US aggression against Iraq (which was carried out twice under a far-fetched pretext, the result of lies by the US political leadership) and its occupation, as well as after the victory of the Free Syrian Army over the Assad regime. Political Islam died in the mid-10s, after the defeat of ISIS, the removal of the Egyptian revolutionary president Morsi and representatives of the Muslim Brotherhood in Tunisia.

Perhaps the only force left by the mid-twenties is political Rafidism. This force can really threaten the Jewish state and society, and therefore Israel is actively taking measures to counter it.

So, the thread about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and everything that surrounds it (the confrontation between Israel and the Arabs, the conflict between Judaism and Islam, as well as Judaism and Rafidism).

[Wahrheitssucher]

The war that Israel waged in the Gaza Strip after the Hamas attack on October 7th needs a separate thread.

It isn’t a “war”. That is Israeli misinformation.
You keep repeating blatant Zionist deceptions. As I have explained to you before, I think you are either extremely misinformed or are deliberately spreading their lies. Initially I thought it was the latter. But after discussing with you I tend to think it is the former.
It is a genocidal ethnic-cleansing against a defenceless, besieged, entrapped people. I hope for your sake that you do not genuinely believe that can fairly be describes as a “war”.

Hamas has long sought to eliminate Israeli statehood, calling Israel a "Zionist occupying state."

That also is Zionist misinformation.
I.e. you are repeating another lie.

During the 2023-25 ​​war, the IDF did indeed conduct a rather brutal operation in the Gaza Strip…

Nah. Now I am certain you are an Israeli apologist and start to doubt your claim not to self-identify as ‘jewish’.

[InuYasha]

It isn’t a “war”. That is Israeli misinformation.
You keep repeating blatant Zionist deceptions. As I have explained to you before, I think you are either extremely misinformed or are deliberately spreading their lies. Initially I thought it was the latter. But after discussing with you I tend to think it is the former.
It is a genocidal ethnic-cleansing against a defenceless, besieged, entrapped people. I hope for your sake that you do not genuinely believe that can fairly be describes as a “war”.

According to Ozhegov's explanatory dictionary: "War is
1. Armed struggle between states or peoples, between classes within a state. To be in a state of war with someone. To declare war. To wage war. To go to war. To return from war. To die in war. Someone did not return from war. Victorious war. Regional wars. War for independence. Civil war (armed struggle within a state).
2. figurative. A fight, hostile relations with someone or something. To declare war on slackers.
Cold War is a policy consisting of escalating tension and hostility in relations between countries. The end of the Cold War.
War of nerves about mutual nervous tension of someone.
In war as in war (book) 1) war, as well as any fight in general, is war with all its hardships and consequences; 2) in difficult conditions and circumstances, one must be able to adapt to them."

https://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ogegova/26834

According to the Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary:

"War is an armed struggle between states, peoples or hostile parties in the same state, occurring in the form of restoring, preserving or acquiring disputed rights and interests, in a word - to force one side to submit to the will of the other."

https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/ЭСБЕ/Война

If the Third Punic War was a war, then there is even more war going on in Gaza. By this definition, Israel's actions against Palestine are definitely "war."

I.e. you are repeating another lie.

Hamas seeks to establish an Islamic state in historic Palestine, promoting a return to “true Islam” and calling for jihad to destroy Israel and the Jews. If this is a Zionist lie, what does Hamas seek?

Nah. Now I am certain you are an Israeli apologist and start to doubt your claim not to self-identify as ‘jewish’.

I am not Jewish, but I have Jewish friends, and I truly believe that Israel has every right to exist. I don't understand how the Zionists could "disinform" me by creating a "false picture of the world."

[Stubble]

What is going on in Gaza is not war, it is ethnic cleansing. A stone and a tank are in no way equal.

Hamas was founded, funded and guided by the mossad when the PLO went soft. This statement should not be controversial as this is a generally accepted fact.

The timing of the October 7th attack and the way the response was handled speak to a coordination or at the very least an exploitation by Israel for propaganda purposes to justify the slaughter that has been unfolding for almost 2 years.

[InuYasha]

What is going on in Gaza is not war, it is ethnic cleansing. A stone and a tank are in no way equal.

Hamas was founded, funded and guided by the mossad when the PLO went soft. This statement should not be controversial as this is a generally accepted fact.

The timing of the October 7th attack and the way the response was handled speak to a coordination or at the very least an exploitation by Israel for propaganda purposes to justify the slaughter that has been unfolding for almost 2 years.

If Hamas was really created by the Mossad, then it would mean that the Jews organized a gigantic political fraud to start a war and portray themselves as victims, killing not only militants but also civilians.

Let's say the Holocaust is a hoax. But why arrange such a hoax in the 21st century, when all the Holocaust narratives are firmly established, and the Jewish elite does not need to kill their own and other people's citizens again? On the contrary - if the Holo-hoax were real, then it would explain everything. It would mean that the Jewish elites are ready to sacrifice millions of people, including Jews, for their own selfish and egotistical purposes. Actually, before WWII, if I am not mistaken, some Zionist leaders said something about millions who must die for Israel to emerge.

No one stopped them from simply invading and doing the same thing without October 7th. The world would have protested, but who would have listened? Israel already exists, and every American administration has supported it without complaint.

In Gaza, there are two opposing forces: Hamas and the IDF. This meets the criteria for war. For example, in the period after March 2000, the mujahideen in Ichkeria lost control of the main cities and went into the mountains and forests, continuing to attack the Russian occupiers, while Russia carried out assassinations and purges, such as in Novye Aldi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novye_Aldi_massacre

This is considered a war, known as the Second Chechen War. It lasted until the end of the 2000s, when most of the rebels of the CRI Armed Forces were either killed, sent to prison (where they were tortured), or persuaded to side with the Russian Federation. Those who remained experienced a shortage of even small arms, and fled to Turkey or Western Europe.

So yes - "stone against tank" can be a war. The Palestinian mujahideen are just as much participants in the war as the IDF soldiers, albeit with incomparably fewer forces to conduct combat operations.

[Stubble]

I'll leave this here, it is mainstream and reflects the ever coveted 'consensus'.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnis ... eate-hamas

Also;

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netany ... -1.7010035

Also;

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/20 ... ael_helped

Hopefully these are 'mainstream' enough for you.

[Wahrheitssucher]

It isn’t a “war”. That is Israeli misinformation.
You keep repeating blatant Zionist deceptions. As I have explained to you before, I think you are either extremely misinformed or are deliberately spreading their lies. Initially I thought it was the latter. But after discussing with you I tend to think it is the former.
What has been occurring in occupied Palestine for the last 20 months is a pre-planned genocidal ethnic-cleansing against a defenceless, besieged, entrapped people. I hope for your sake that you do not genuinely believe that can fairly be describes as a “war”.

… Israel's actions against Palestine are definitely "war."

I.e. you are repeating another lie.

Hamas seeks to establish an Islamic state in historic Palestine, promoting a return to “true Islam” and calling for jihad to destroy Israel and the Jews. If this is a Zionist lie, what does Hamas seek?

Have you read the revised Hamas Charter?
If not then you are like Confused Jew who hasn’t read the Wannsee Protocol or the Eichmann trial transcripts but thinks he knows better about both than someone who has read them and has studied them.

Hamas seek the basic human rights of the Palestinian people. One of those rights is the ‘right of return’. The Ashkenazi Jews of European origin who expelled them refuse them that right because then their Jewish ethno-state will no longer be ‘jewish’. That is the basis of the genocide (not ‘war’) now occurring with western support.

Nah. Now I am certain you are an Israeli apologist and start to doubt your claim not to self-identify as ‘jewish’.

I am not Jewish, but I have Jewish friends, and I truly believe that Israel has every right to exist.

Seriously??! NO country has a right to exist just anywhere. That is such a meaningless, manipulative slogan. If you are seriously thinking that is a conclusive argument, this proves you are a gullible person who has been brainwashed.
All countries have set borders. And no country can ‘exist’ without acknowledged boundaries.
Israel has NEVER declared its borders.
Did you not know that?

Even jewish-controlled wikipedia admits this:

Only two of Israel's five total potential land borders are internationally recognized and uncontested, while the other three remain disputed…

And the Jerusalem Post had a lead article in 2022 with this heading:
“When will be the right time for Israel to define its borders?”

Finally, under international law, no country has a right to “exist” on its neighbouring country's territories.
So either:
1. Your Israeli ‘friends’ have brainwashed you,
or
2. You are a jewish zionist infiltrator from the former Soviet Union who is here to subtly repeat zionist deceits in order to give them credence amongst CODOH readers.

I don't understand how the Zionists could "disinform" me by creating a "false picture of the world."

If you are being genuine and honest now, then that’s your problem right there.

Mass-murdering civilian non-combatants who are predominantly children and women is not called “war” but “war crimes”. Check your dictionaries on that.

[Cowboy]

It's important to understand the context behind why Hamas actually attacked Israel when they did.

Around this time, the Biden administration was in negotiations with Saudi Arabia, and the primary purpose of these negotiations was to get the Saudis normalize ties with the state of Israel. I will provide a quotation about the negotiations and highlight the important points as it relates to Palestine:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-saudi- ... 023-09-29/

Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has hailed the possibility of a "historic" peace with Saudi Arabia, the heartland of Islam. But to secure the prize, Netanyahu has to win the approval of parties in his a far-right coalition which reject any concessions to the Palestinians.

MbS said in a Fox News interview this month that the kingdom was moving steadily closer to normalizing ties with Israel. He spoke about the need for Israel to "ease the life of the Palestinians" but made no mention of Palestinian statehood.

Nevertheless, diplomats and the regional sources said MbS was insisting on some commitments from Israel to show he was not abandoning the Palestinians and that he was seeking to keep the door open to a two-state solution.

Those would include demanding Israel transfer some Israeli-controlled territory in the West Bank to the Palestinian Authority (PA), limit Jewish settlement activity and halt any steps to annex parts of the West Bank. Riyadh has also promised financial aid to the PA, the diplomats and sources said.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has said any bargain must recognise the Palestinian right to a state within the 1967 borders, including East Jerusalem, and must stop Israeli settlement building. However, all the sources said a Saudi-Israeli deal was unlikely to address those flashpoint issues.

Here is another quotation from an NBC article about the negotiations:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-t ... rcna116464

Recognizing Israel would likely be seen as a betrayal by the Palestinians and those who support Palestinian statehood, and who have relied on Riyadh as a bedrock of the Arab world’s support.

In his address to the U.N. General Assembly on Thursday, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas dismissed as “delusional” the idea of peace in the Middle East without full rights for the Palestinian people. An agreement that doesn’t include real concessions to their cause could feed anger in the region.

In a separate statement to Palestinian news agency WAFA on Friday, Nabil Abu Rudeina, a spokesperson for Abbas said, “Peace begins with Palestine, and stability begins with the Palestinian people obtaining their legitimate national rights and establishing their independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital. Without that, there is no peace, no security and no stability in the region.”

The position of the Palestinian government was that they wanted guarantees that they would have a state. It was unreasonable to them that a Saudi-Israeli normalization agreement would be viable without said guarantees. Groups like Hamas already have extreme animosity towards the Israelis for their occupation of Palestinian land. This group is radically opposed to the Zionist, expansionist regime that is the state of Israel, and even more so when the Likud party is running the government. The attack on October 7th was not only a general response to the repeated mistreatment of the Palestinians by the Zionist government, but it was also to de-rail diplomacy which would have left Palestine in the dust. Israel would be unable to reach an agreement with Saudi Arabia if they were going to be involved in warfare with Hamas. If Israel were to achieve peace agreements with all Arab countries, then nobody would be able to assist the Palestinians in a time of conflict without breaking those agreements. Point being, they had a legitimate political reason to attack that they felt was justified outside of them hating Jews and Israel.

From the Israeli perspective, it is in the interest of Zionists by definition to want to occupy and annex the land owned by the Palestinians. The ultimate goal of these people is to form Greater Israel, which Warheitssucher has posted a map of. This isn't a new goal either: the Zionists have been working towards expanding their borders and toppling Islamic regimes since their creation. Let's look at Oden Yinon's "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties." This part of the foreword sums up the Zionist policy on what should be done with the Palestinians:

https://cnionline.org/the-zionist-plan- ... -eighties/

The Zionist policy of displacing the Palestinians from Palestine is very much an active policy, but is pursued more forcefully in times of conflict, such as in the 1947-1948 war and in the 1967 war. An appendix entitled ”Israel Talks of a New Exodus” is included in this publication to demonstrate past Zionist dispersals of Palestinians from their homeland and to show, besides the main Zionist document we present, other Zionist planning for the de-Palestinization of Palestine.

This policy is exactly what we are seeing in the present day. President Trump previously presented a plan that would displace about one million Palestinians to the country of Libya, and in return he would unfreeze billions of dollars in funds for the country. It's important to note that he took $200 million from Miriam Adelson in this election cycle. Israel has essentially put the Palestinians into what can be considered "open-air concentration camps." I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't just kill all of these people if they could. Far right politicians in Israel have been calling for displacement and annexation of territory throughout the conflict, and these are all people that are in Netanyahu's ear. It makes sense as to why they would say this, since it's been demonstrated that the existence of a Palestinian state goes directly against the goals of the Zionists.

As for the attack itself, I find it laughable to think that Israeli intelligence was caught off guard by Hamas' actions. They arguably have the best intelligence agency in the entire world. Here is an article by the Jerusalem Post discussing foreknowledge of an attack:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-806634

The report further detailed that Israeli intelligence officials monitored the exercise and documented the steps Hamas planned to take after breaching Israeli territory and taking over military posts. The expected number of hostages, according to the document, was between 200 and 250 people.

Is it not a plausible possibility that Israel let this attack happen in order to justify an ethnic cleansing and annexation of the Gaza strip? It's not far reaching to say that the Zionist government would allow hundreds of their citizens to die in order to work towards achieving their ultimate goal. It's also evidenced that the Hannibal Directive was active on October 7th, which allowed the IDF to kill their own civilians to prevent them from being taken hostage by the enemy.

I am anti-war so in no way am I attempting to justify a terrorist attack by Hamas, but I think it's important to understand the situation that they felt they were in as well. The Palestinians have been persecuted and have had their land taken by the Zionists since the creation of the state of Israel, and October 7th is just another military conflict that has taken place in the region because of that.

Israel already exists, and every American administration has supported it without complaint.

This is false. President John F. Kennedy was actively pursuing an inspection policy of the Dimona nuclear plant during his administration, and Israel was adamantly opposed to this. The Israeli government led by David Ben-Gurion, who is known as "Israel's founding father", tried to push off the inspections as long as they could. Here is quote from his Wikipedia page so we can understand his thought process:

Ben-Gurion is said to have been "nearly obsessed" with Israel's obtaining nuclear weapons, feeling that a nuclear arsenal was the only way to counter the Arabs' superiority in numbers, space, and financial resources, and that it was the only sure guarantee of Israel's survival and the prevention of another Holocaust.

Ultimately, JFK sent an ultimatum to Ben-Gurion, demanding that the US be allowed to run full inspections on their nuclear facilities or else US-Israeli relations would be "seriously jeopardized." One day after this ultimatum was received by Ben-Gurion, he resigned from his position for reasons that still aren't fully understood, but I think we can speculate as to why. Five months after these events occurred, JFK was assassinated, and Israel was able to continue to build their nuclear arsenal without any pressure from the Unites States government. Really makes you think.

[HansHill]

It's important to understand the context behind why Hamas actually attacked Israel when they did.

Around this time, the Biden administration was in negotiations with Saudi Arabia, and the primary purpose of these negotiations was to get the Saudis normalize ties with the state of Israel.

Cowboy is right, and has touched on something very important here. This is also not speculation - far from it. Israeli - Arab """normalisation""" had been proceeding in the years immediately prior to this attack, in the form of the Abraham Accords. These were seen as a disastrous outcome for Arab citizens in these countries, for exactly the reason Cowboy is pointing to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -gaza-war/

[HansHill]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_A ... on_polling

[InuYasha]

Have you read the revised Hamas Charter?
If not then you are like Confused Jew who hasn’t read the Wannsee Protocol or the Eichmann trial transcripts but thinks he knows better about both than someone who has read them and has studied them.

Hamas seek the basic human rights of the Palestinian people. One of those rights is the ‘right of return’. The Ashkenazi Jews of European origin who expelled them refuse them that right because then their Jewish ethno-state will no longer be ‘jewish’. That is the basis of the genocide (not ‘war’) now occurring with western support.

Yes, I have seen this 1988 charter. It is written in an Islamic spirit, and includes the idea that Palestine is part of the "Islamic land". It also accuses the Jewish people of taking over this land, and that Jews and Judaism are challenging Islam and Muslims.

"The day when the enemies take over a part of Muslim land, jihad becomes the personal duty of every Muslim. In the face of the Jewish takeover of Palestine, it is necessary to raise the banner of jihad. This requires spreading Islamic consciousness among the masses, both regionally, Arab and Islamically. It is necessary to instill the spirit of jihad in the hearts of the people, so that they will confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters."

Seriously??! NO country has a right to exist just anywhere. That is such a meaningless, manipulative slogan. If you are seriously thinking that is a conclusive argument, this proves you are a gullible person who has been brainwashed.
All countries have set borders. And no country can ‘exist’ without acknowledged boundaries.
Israel has NEVER declared its borders.
Did you not know that?

How to understand this delirious and absurd statement "NO country has a right to exist just anywhere"?

The principle of the right of peoples to self-determination is enshrined in Article 1 of the UN Charter and disclosed in a number of international legal documents.

"All peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of this right, they freely establish their political status and freely ensure their economic, social and cultural development."

Peoples can freely determine their political status without outside interference (creation of a sovereign and independent state, free accession to an independent state, unification with it, or establishment of any other political status).

Your constant ranting about "brainwashing" indicates that you are fanatical in your anti-Israel rhetoric. The hallmark of fanaticism is the belief that all who disagree with you are "stupid, gullible, brainwashed, or bought off." I have previously assumed, or felt, that you hate Jews, not because of your criticism of Israel, but because of your specific political claims about Jewish culture, the Jewish people, their supposed "conspiracy" against all humanity, and your desire to destroy the Jewish state. You may not be an anti-Semite, but you certainly advocate the destruction of the Israeli state.

Even jewish-controlled wikipedia admits this

You know why Israel's borders are "not defined". Its wars with Arab countries. After the war with Syria, Israel captured the Golan Heights and holds them, for example. In Egypt, a similar situation after 1967 (the Six-Day War) - the occupation of the Sinai Peninsula. There have been plenty of these events. And this is not "not defined borders". This is called military occupation of the territories of another state.

Finally, under international law, no country has a right to “exist” on its neighbouring country's territories.
So either:
1. Your Israeli ‘friends’ have brainwashed you,
or
2. You are a jewish zionist infiltrator from the former Soviet Union who is here to subtly repeat zionist deceits in order to give them credence amongst CODOH readers.

Once again you have shown yourself to be an anti-Israel fanatic. This time you have gone even further and now suggest that I am a "Jewish infiltrator". Well, yes, you have exposed me. Netanyahu paid me, and I am on a mission for Mossad as a Shabbe goy - to defend Jewish propaganda on this forum.

Aren't you laughing? You criticize me for assuming that you hate Jews, but you yourself assume that I am some kind of Jewish infiltrator or Jew. And now you claim that you are not a fanatic.

This is also ridiculous because there are genuine exterminationists and anti-revisionists on this site, and I clearly doubt the official version - which is strange and almost never the case with "Jewish infiltrators". (David Cole does not count - he is a sincere revisionist, despite his Jewish origin, and pretended to "retreat" only under threat of reprisal from the JDL).

You will not succeed in making me break with my friends of Jewish origin or hate them. I have nothing against Jews, just as I have nothing against Arabs. I also have friends of Arab origin. Attempts to convince me of someone's evil intent will not succeed.

This is not Morpheus and Neo choosing the red or blue pill (though it looks like it at first glance).

You just sound like those Arab leftists who during the Cold War, using generally democratic and humanist rhetoric - called for the destruction of the Israeli state. Years ago, I got my information from Arab sources, such as the Baathists (I considered the concept of "Arab socialism" a progressive idea back then, and also got inspiration from Gaddafi and Saddam), and what you say is generally quite similar to them.

If you are being genuine and honest now, then that’s your problem right there.

Mass-murdering civilian non-combatants who are predominantly children and women is not called “war” but “war crimes”. Check your dictionaries on that.

Greater Israel is a chauvinistic and imperialistic concept that would violate the rights of the peoples of neighboring countries (Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, etc) to self-determination. But this will never happen. Israel itself is an ordinary country that expresses the will of the Jewish people for self-determination.

Mass murder of civilians is a horrible part of Israel's war with Hamas. How can there be WAR crimes if there is no WAR? Another absurdity.

You are the one who keeps saying that the Jews have misinformed me. But it seems that you yourself are trying to misinform me. Criticism of the IDF's war crimes and atrocities is justified, since no army is forgiven for its abuse of civilians. But you suggesting that we take and destroy Israel as a country, because they are "occupiers on foreign soil" - this is not the same as criticism of war crimes.

[Wahrheitssucher]

Have you read the revised Hamas Charter?
If not then you are like Confused Jew who hasn’t read the Wannsee Protocol or the Eichmann trial transcripts but thinks he knows better about both than someone who has read them and has studied them.

Hamas seek the basic human rights of the Palestinian people. One of those rights is the ‘right of return’. The Ashkenazi Jews of European origin who expelled them refuse them that right because then their Jewish ethno-state will no longer be ‘jewish’. That is the basis of the genocide (not ‘war’) now occurring with western support.

Yes, I have seen this 1988 charter. It… accuses the Jewish people of taking over this land, and that Jews and Judaism are challenging Islam and Muslims.

All of which are irrefutably accurate.

Finally, under international law, no country has a right to “exist” on its neighbouring country's territories.
So either:
1. Your Israeli ‘friends’ have brainwashed you,
or
2. You are a jewish zionist infiltrator from the former Soviet Union who is here to subtly repeat zionist deceits in order to give them credence amongst CODOH readers.

You will not succeed in making me break with my friends of Jewish origin or hate them. I have nothing against Jews, just as I have nothing against Arabs. I also have friends of Arab origin. Attempts to convince me of someone's evil intent will not succeed.

If you are being genuine and honest now, then that’s your problem right there.

Mass-murdering civilian non-combatants who are predominantly children and women is not called “war” but “war crimes”. Check your dictionaries on that.

…you suggesting that we take and destroy Israel as a country, because they are "occupiers on foreign soil" - this is not the same as criticism of war crimes.

You were correct in pointing out the illogicality of suggesting ‘war crimes’ can exist outside of ‘war’. I accept correction on that point. I should have written ‘crimes against humanity’. But Misrepresentation and delusional strawmen-arguments are often a last resort of people with no reasonable reply. And as I haven’t suggested you hate anyone, or break with friends, I now conclude you are incapable of fair, reasonable discussion around the illegality of the Ashkenazi-jewish-zionist actions in Palestine.

So on to ignore you go.

[Cowboy]

How to understand this delirious and absurd statement "NO country has a right to exist just anywhere"?

The principle of the right of peoples to self-determination is enshrined in Article 1 of the UN Charter and disclosed in a number of international legal documents.

"All peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of this right, they freely establish their political status and freely ensure their economic, social and cultural development."

What gave a country the right to exist before the creation of the United Nations charter in 1945?

Greater Israel is a chauvinistic and imperialistic concept that would violate the rights of the peoples of neighboring countries (Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, etc) to self-determination. But this will never happen. Israel itself is an ordinary country that expresses the will of the Jewish people for self-determination.

To think that Israel cares about the right to self-determination for neighboring Arab countries is laughable. It has been Zionist policy since their creation to topple nationalistic Arab regimes and install new governments in those countries that will normalize with Israel. Not only can I point to actions taken against countries such as Libya, Iraq, and Syria, but there is also documentation that outlines Zionist goals (e.g. The Clean Break Memo and the Yinon Plan). Israel would love to topple the current Iranian regime with the help of the United States and create a subservient government in that country. I guess that would ruin Iran's right to self-determination, wouldn't it?

Here is a map that roughly shows the territorial changes overtime in the Israeli-Palestine conflict:

R.jpg (151.73 KiB) Viewed 1062 times

Peoples can freely determine their political status without outside interference (creation of a sovereign and independent state, free accession to an independent state, unification with it, or establishment of any other political status).

Ironically, it looks likes in 1947 the United Nations assisted Israel in stripping the right of self-determination from the Palestinians. So much for that charter!

[borjastick]

As soon as the fake ashkenazi 'jews' started arriving immediately after the war they began killing Palestinians and stealing land. That was in late 45 and into 46. The Stern Gang and Irgun gang were militarised and had zero interest in peace, they only wanted a much bigger israel and zero Palestinians. They had no interest in being decent and honorable to the Brits who were there and who had given them israel in the first place Read The Balfour Declaration to see the background and commitment to israel for the joos. So they attacked British troops too, my father being one of them. They have a certain arrogance and sense of 'specialness' and entitlement hitherto unseen on planet earth.

They haven't stopped. I have lived my whole life under this extermination, for that is what it is. And it continues today under the guise of 'October 7th' which is total bollocks. These fake jews are pure filth, pure evil.

They are, of course, paid for and emboldened by the US for a number of reasons, these too are complete tosh. Reasons like 'israel is the only democracy in the middle east' as if that matters at all. It doesn't of course. Islamic countries are more kind and more gentle and cause fewer wars than does israel and they are for the most part not democratic and are ruled by Kings and families, but who cares when they have oil to sell us?

israel is a stain on modern ethics and decency and as far as I am concerned should be dealt with very very harshly. If ever you wanted proof of Hitler being right about the jews here you have it in spades. Nasty pieces of shit they are too. Still, better there than on my doorstep eh.

[borjastick]

And here's another thing.

The jews and by that I mainly include israelis and the lunatic zionist supporters think like this woman does. She's an odious piece of shit who has been spreading jew lies and propaganda for decades as a journalist in the UK. Melanie Philips is her name.

Watch this video of hers put out this week to see if you can spot any sign of rational understanding and care for anyone else than the jews and israel. Don't hold your breath.

The arrogance and stupidity of these people is breathtaking...

Never crossed their tiny little minds that if there was a clearly defined israeli state and a clearly defined Palestinian state we might not be in the pickle that exists today. Why was there never a two state solution? Because the zionists had no intention of sticking to the land they were given.