Evidence and Implementation

For more adversarial interactions
Online
User avatar
Archie
Site Admin
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2024 6:54 am

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Archie »

Nessie wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 4:14 pm Comparing the Holocaust with the witch trials is a false analogy. The supposed eyewitnesses to witchcraft were making claims that were physically impossible, flying brooms and casting spells. The eyewitnesses to gassings, cremations and mass graves were making claims that are physically possible, since building gas chambers, mass corpse cremation ovens and digging big pits were well within German design and engineering capability.
You and ConfusedJew claim that multiple witnesses cannot be wrong. The witch trials disprove that assumption. Whether the false story is scientifically believable or not is not the relevant issue because there is no reason you couldn't have something that is perfectly possible but nonetheless false. It's neither here nor there. If you are too dumb to think through all of these cases and don't understand why what you are saying is totally irrelevant, fine, we can instead discuss, say, Jewish ritual murder as that is physically possible. It is possible and it is attested by numerous witnesses yet the establishment claims these stories are 100% mythical.

An additional point here is that we can't easily say a priori what is and is not possible. You can say that based on known science and technology that such and such does not seem to be possible, as far as we know, but we can't really know this in any absolute sense. Often we assume things are impossible simply because they have never happened, or can't be shown to have happened.
Online
User avatar
Archie
Site Admin
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2024 6:54 am

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Archie »

Witnesses A, B, and C claim X
X is impossible (or is impossible as far as we know)

In this case, if we are confident in the premise that X is impossible, we would be justified in concluding that A, B, and C must be wrong about X. But you can't go the other way. Just because X is possible doesn't mean that therefore A, B, C must be right. It just means they COULD be right which doesn't get us anywhere.
User avatar
TlsMS93
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2024 11:57 am

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by TlsMS93 »

So was the miracle of the sun real? Or was everyone wrong or under a collective hallucination?
A
AreYouSirius
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:33 am

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by AreYouSirius »

ConfusedJew wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 3:06 am I don't need to prove any affirmative case. The "proof" is already out there. I just need to prove that you are wrong.
Why do you “need” to prove anything? I thought you were coming to this revisionist debate with curiosity. Why can’t your North Star be accurate truth—irrespective of your preconceived notions or cultural/religious programming?
C
ConfusedJew
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu May 01, 2025 2:36 pm

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by ConfusedJew »

Archie wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 1:52 pm
"Telephone" is your explanation for electric floors and steam chambers and the like?

My explanation, having read and compared countless of these war-time stories, is that this material contains a degree of accurate information about the camps in question but with some sensational atrocity propaganda mixed in. The atrocity tales are akin to the "corpse factory" stories from WWI. The reason the stories aren't consistent is simply because they aren't based in fact.
The electric floor claim was first reported in the New York Times in 1942 and quoted sources from the Polish government-in-exile but it was not corroborated by later confessions or investigation of the camp infrastructure. It was discarded by historians. The claim may have originated from a misunderstanding of the high-voltage fences used for perimeter security. Some of the WW1 claims were pure propaganda and deliberate fictions created by British intelligence. However, these claims regarding WW2 often originated from confused refugee reports, trauma, rumor, or bad translation. If you want, we could do a deeper dive on that section, but I think it's generally pretty normal for there to be false and inaccurate reports during the fog of war.
A key principle of historiography is that the earliest accounts are, all else equal, better and more likely to be accurate than later acccounts, i.e, ideally you want accounts recorded as close in time to the events in question as possible. So in terms of historical value, the earliest versions of the stories are actually extremely important. Now, it is true that first-hand is also more reliable than second-hand which is more reliable than third-hand etc. That is another consideration along with a number of other things. But I think if you study the trajectory from the war-time claims to the early post-war trials to the eventual history books, the trajectory is NOT a favorable one for the Holocaust side.
Temporal proximity is a foundational heuristic in historiography that sources closer in time to an event tend to be more reliable. However, this is only a tendency and not very applicable to the Holocaust. That principle most strongly applies to very long time gaps between history which is more relevant to ancient history. Today, early evidence is often clarified as historical consensus firms.
Re: the 4 million, you have missed my point. It is of course correct that the witnesses would generally not be in a position to know such a number (although the Sonderkommando typically claimed to have seen thousands cremated per day and Vrba claimed to have personally counted/estimated around 1.75M Jews that were killed - yes, he really claimed this). But my question to you would be, if they could not have known such a number yet they give that number in their testimony, where did they get that number from if not from personal experience? The clear answer, the one you obviously don't want to give, is that they got it from the Soviet propaganda. This is exactly the sort of contamination you were arguing was implausible. And I gave the other example about the flaming chimneys since that is something the witnesses all claim to have seen with their own eyes. This is a "corroborated" story that is actually false and that can't be brushed off as hearsay.
This seems to be common sense to me but I would take any macro statistics from eyewitnesses with a huge grain of salt since they obviously didn't see the whole thing. This is accepted as a known issue in legal and historical testimony across all domains.

Credible historians like Raul Hilberg disregarded numerical estimates from testimonies in favor of contemporary Nazi records, forensic data, and transportation logs when reconstructing death tolls.

You say that all witnesses claim to have seen flaming chimneys which isn't true as most don't mention that. Reports of flaming chimneys is interpreted by historians to be a misperception or optical illusion of flaring gases or confusion with burning pits.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that those claims were corroborated. They might have been mistakes that showed up a few times, but that doesn't mean that the whole testimonies should be thrown out.
C
ConfusedJew
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu May 01, 2025 2:36 pm

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by ConfusedJew »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 2:00 pm
Salem Witch trials. Do you know about those trials and what they were ‘trying’, CJ?

If so, a Question for you ConfusedJew:
do you believe that there were ‘Witches’ in Salem who did ‘magic’, cast spells upon numerous girls, had signs of the Devil on their bodies, cursed pigs, conversed with and fornicated with the Devil, and wrote their names in blood in his book?
If not, why not?
There were confessions.
Girls did exhibit unusual behaviour.
Pigs did unexpectedly die.
Accused did have moles on their bodies.
The Salem witnesses are considered false because they gave testimony based on dreams, visions, social pressure, and fear, rather than objective or verifiable facts. The Witch Trials were fueled by bad epistemology — a reliance on subjective claims and religious beliefs.

The Salem witnesses had much lower evidentiary standards because their claims were untestable, inconsistent, and lacked corroboration from material reality. Holocaust witnesses are judged largely credible because their accounts, though sometimes flawed, are consistent with a lot of other types of evidence such as Nazi documents, physical sites, bystander testimony, and even admissions from the perpetrators.
C
ConfusedJew
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu May 01, 2025 2:36 pm

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by ConfusedJew »

AreYouSirius wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 6:59 pm Why do you “need” to prove anything? I thought you were coming to this revisionist debate with curiosity. Why can’t your North Star be accurate truth—irrespective of your preconceived notions or cultural/religious programming?
I am here for accurate truth and I'm learning a lot from this community. But the most common debate tactic that is being used here is that they'll identify a figment of truth and then try to use a single flaw to try to discredit not just an entire source of information but a whole source like it.

I'll have to go deeper on the Salem Witch trials to compare and contrast because it's not 100% different.
User avatar
Stubble
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:43 am

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Stubble »

CJ, significantly more diligence is due on your part. Your summation of the core of the debate is inaccurate.

As an example, we will take just one facet of the debate, the 'preplanned genocide' supposition. On that very point there are people in the orthodox camp that disagree, because it isn't supported by evidence, but rather from the original standpoint is grandfathered in.

That isn't some fictitious or fantasiful detail, it is a rather large and gaping hole in the narrative.

If you are ernest in your approach, truly, then you need to understand what the problems are before attempting blanket dismissal of the argument by leaning on the ground that is ever shrinking beneath your feet of what you think has already been settled.

This reminds me of you leaning on the wannsee minutes previously and not even knowing what was contained there in or that the revisionist argument regarding the minutes was that they literally just mean what they say.

If you are indeed seeking to understand the issue, you are going to have to study it. Simply going to an AI model and asking it to make an argument for you just isn't going to cut it *see your experience with the hydrogen cyanide levels found by the various studies for proof of that*.

In the event that you didn't download 'Debating the Holocaust', since the link I previously provided is now dead, as a gesture of good faith on my part, I will again link to it so that you have the opportunity to review it. It is merely a primer and by no means is it replete in describing the various problems with the orthodox assumption. At the sime time, it is concise and easy to read. It is a good keyhole to peer through to get a peak at the other side of the debate for you.

https://holocausthandbooks.com/book/deb ... holocaust/
User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:41 am

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Nessie »

Archie wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 5:51 pm
Nessie wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 4:14 pm Comparing the Holocaust with the witch trials is a false analogy. The supposed eyewitnesses to witchcraft were making claims that were physically impossible, flying brooms and casting spells. The eyewitnesses to gassings, cremations and mass graves were making claims that are physically possible, since building gas chambers, mass corpse cremation ovens and digging big pits were well within German design and engineering capability.
You and ConfusedJew claim that multiple witnesses cannot be wrong. The witch trials disprove that assumption.
You have just quoted me saying that the witch trials prove that multiple witnesses can make false claims that are physically impossible!

Sorry, but your misunderstanding is causing you to make some really basic mistakes. What people claimed about witches was physically impossible. What people claimed about the Nazis is not physically impossible. A woman cannot fly a broom. A German can design a gas chamber.
Whether the false story is scientifically believable or not is not the relevant issue...
It is relevant here, because it is the major mistake that you make. People are not very good at describing events. A physically possible event can be described in a way that makes it appear impossible and vice versa. You mistakenly think that because a lot of the descriptions of gassings, cremations and graves are such that what is being described is impossible, means that the story is false.
.... because there is no reason you couldn't have something that is perfectly possible but nonetheless false. It's neither here nor there. If you are too dumb to think through all of these cases and don't understand why what you are saying is totally irrelevant, fine, we can instead discuss, say, Jewish ritual murder as that is physically possible. It is possible and it is attested by numerous witnesses yet the establishment claims these stories are 100% mythical.
Indeed, it is possible for a physically possible claim to also be false.
An additional point here is that we can't easily say a priori what is and is not possible. You can say that based on known science and technology that such and such does not seem to be possible, as far as we know, but we can't really know this in any absolute sense. Often we assume things are impossible simply because they have never happened, or can't be shown to have happened.
We can know, in an absolute sense, if something is possible or not, from evidence it happened. Gassings, cremations and graves are evidenced to have happened, therefore they were possible.
User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:41 am

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Nessie »

Archie wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 5:59 pm Witnesses A, B, and C claim X
X is impossible (or is impossible as far as we know)

In this case, if we are confident in the premise that X is impossible, we would be justified in concluding that A, B, and C must be wrong about X. But you can't go the other way. Just because X is possible doesn't mean that therefore A, B, C must be right. It just means they COULD be right which doesn't get us anywhere.
If X is impossible, we are indeed correct to conclude A, B and C lied. Women flying broom sticks and casting magic spells are impossible. Therefore the witnesses were incorrect. Germans designing gas chambers, mass cremation ovens and digging mass graves are not impossible, they are acts well within their design and engineering capabilities. Therefore, no matter how badly A, B and C describe the gassings, cremations and graves, they are describing what is a physical possibility.

You are correct to say that just because X is possible, it does not mean A, B and C are right that X happened. To establish that, we need to look at the evidence to establish what happened. By far the best evidenced event, is mass killings. The suggested mass resettlement has no evidence to support it. Instead, resettlement was a term used to hide the mass killings and some Nazis may have genuinely thought Jews were being resettled in their millions, 1941-4, but by 1945, they would have known that was not the case.
User avatar
Wahrheitssucher
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon May 19, 2025 2:51 pm

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

ConfusedJew wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:34 pm
Wahrheitssucher wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 2:00 pm
The Salem Witch trials.
do you believe that there were ‘Witches’ in Salem who did ‘magic’, cast spells upon numerous girls, had signs of the Devil on their bodies, cursed pigs, conversed with and fornicated with the Devil, wrote their names in blood in his book, etc.?
If not, why not?
There were confessions.
Girls did exhibit unusual behaviour.
Pigs did unexpectedly die.
Accused did have moles on their bodies.
There was numerous, corroborative ‘eye-witness’ testimony.
Etc.
The Salem witnesses are considered false because they gave testimony based on dreams, visions, social pressure, and fear, rather than objective or verifiable facts. The Witch Trials were fueled by bad epistemology — a reliance on subjective claims and religious beliefs…
Regrettably this appears to be another argument from stubborn ignorance.
Plus it ignores the examples I listed of the “verifiable facts” provided in Salem to convict the accused ‘witches’ and ‘Devil accomplices’.

So here is further explanation of the parallels between ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing genocide belief and belief in the Salem ‘Witches’.
I don’t expect true-believers of ‘holocaust’ to be able to admit and concede this either. Too much is at stake for them to admit the parallels.
But others might enjoy it.
It is this:
those who were intelligent enough, plus logical, reasonable and independently minded enough to see how nonsensical and irrational the accusations of witchcraft were, and said so, became accused themselves.

The believers in wicked witches, witchcraft and the evil Devil were too much emotionally invested to allow rationality and reason to prevail against the majority, consensus ‘belief’ of that time. Therefore, anyone who spoke up and expressed doubt or disbelief was accused of also being a witch and a devil worshipper.

Just so, the people who are emotionally invested in the ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing genocide belief and in wicked ‘nazis’ are similarly too much emotionally invested to allow rationale and reason to prevail.
Consequently, those who today express doubt, question and refute any aspect of the majority, consensus ‘holocaust’ belief are accused of also being an anti-semite and a neo-nazi.
User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:41 am

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Nessie »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:11 am ...

The Salem witnesses are considered false because they gave testimony based on dreams, visions, social pressure, and fear, rather than objective or verifiable facts.
The witch allegations are also considered to be false, because many of the accusations were of actions that are a physical impossibility, in particular the casting of spells.
The Witch Trials were fueled by bad epistemology — a reliance on subjective claims and religious beliefs…
Regrettably this appears to be another argument from stubborn ignorance.
Plus it ignores the examples I listed of the “verifiable facts” provided in Salem to convict the accused ‘witches’ and ‘Devil accomplices’.
So-called revisionism is fuelled by "bad epistemology". The flaws in how revisionists investigate the Holocaust are numerous and obvious, except to revisionists.
So here is further explanation of the parallels between ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing genocide belief and belief in the Salem ‘Witches’.
I don’t expect true-believers of ‘holocaust’ to be able to admit and concede this either. Too much is at stake for them to admit the parallels.
But others might enjoy it.
It is this:
those who were intelligent enough, plus logical, reasonable and independently minded enough to see how nonsensical and irrational the accusations of witchcraft were, and said so, became accused themselves.

The believers in wicked witches, witchcraft and the evil Devil were too much emotionally invested to allow rationality and reason to prevail against the majority, consensus ‘belief’ of that time. Therefore, anyone who spoke up and expressed doubt or disbelief was accused of also being a witch and a devil worshipper.

Just so, the people who are emotionally invested in the ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing genocide belief and in wicked ‘nazis’ are similarly too much emotionally invested to allow rationale and reason to prevail.
Consequently, those who today express doubt, question and refute any aspect of the majority, consensus ‘holocaust’ belief are accused of also being an anti-semite and a neo-nazi.
People, who stood up to the witch finders, did indeed find themselves also at risk of suppression. We know that they were correct and the women had not committed the crimes they were accused of. There is no comparison with so-called revisionists, who cannot revise history and instead they deny it, using flawed, illogical and obviously false reasoning and attempts at evidencing.
User avatar
Wahrheitssucher
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon May 19, 2025 2:51 pm

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:11 am
ConfusedJew wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:34 pm
Wahrheitssucher wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 2:00 pm
The Salem Witch trials.
do you believe that there were ‘Witches’ in Salem who did ‘magic’, cast spells upon numerous girls, had signs of the Devil on their bodies, cursed pigs, conversed with and fornicated with the Devil, wrote their names in blood in his book, etc.?
If not, why not?
There were confessions.
Girls did exhibit unusual behaviour.
Pigs did unexpectedly die.
Accused did have moles on their bodies.
There was numerous, corroborative ‘eye-witness’ testimony.
Etc.
The Salem witnesses are considered false because they gave testimony based on dreams, visions, social pressure, and fear, rather than objective or verifiable facts. The Witch Trials were fueled by bad epistemology — a reliance on subjective claims and religious beliefs…
Regrettably this appears to be another argument from stubborn ignorance.
Plus it ignores the examples I listed of the “verifiable facts” provided in Salem to convict the accused ‘witches’ and ‘Devil accomplices’.

So here is further explanation of the parallels between ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing genocide belief and belief in the Salem ‘Witches’.
I don’t expect true-believers of ‘holocaust’ to be able to admit and concede this either. Too much is at stake for them to admit the parallels.
But others might enjoy it.
It is this:
those who were intelligent enough, plus logical, reasonable and independently minded enough to see how nonsensical and irrational the accusations of witchcraft were, and said so, became accused themselves.

The believers in wicked witches, witchcraft and the evil Devil were too much emotionally invested to allow rationality and reason to prevail against the majority, consensus ‘belief’ of that time. Therefore, anyone who spoke up and expressed doubt or disbelief was accused of also being a witch and a devil worshipper.

Just so, the people who are emotionally invested in the ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing genocide belief and in wicked ‘nazis’ are similarly too much emotionally invested to allow rationale and reason to prevail.
Consequently, those who today express doubt, question and refute any aspect of the majority, consensus ‘holocaust’ belief are accused of also being an anti-semite and a neo-nazi.
Here’s another parallel with seeking and ‘finding’ evidence for something which is a pre-conceived ‘belief’ that doesn’t permit it’s fundamental premises to be questioned!

SALEM WITCHCRAFT: the Salem trial of alleged WITCHES relied on ‘evidence’ that was PREDOMINANTLY BASED upon the FALSE TESTIMONY and co-ordinated/choreographed group hysteria of allegedly ‘witchcraft afflicted’ girls + their claims about it being because they were controlled by ‘wicked witches’.
Simple, ‘believing’ minds accepted that very real phenomena of group behaviour as ‘proof’ of satanic sorcery.
And presumably the simple-minded girls themselves came to believe their group behaviour the more their peers and the judges did.
This is explained by herd mentality and group confirmity.

HOLOCAUST MASS-GASSINGS: The post-war trials of alleged GENOCIDAL NSDAP WAR CRIMINALS relied on ‘evidence’ that was PREDOMINANTLY BASED upon the co-ordinated/choreographed group hysteria of alleged ‘jewish genocide survivors’ + their claims about surviving mass-gassing programmes.
Simple, ‘believing’ minds accepted that very real phenomena as ‘proof’ of wicked Nazis.
And we know many simple-minded jews themselves came to believe their group narrative the more their peers and the post-war judges did. This also to a degree can explained by herd mentality and group confirmity.

Plus in BOTH cases, there is compelling evidence that accusations were orchestrated by and came predominantly from people who: i.) wanted vengeance for perceived wrongs done against them; ii.) had economic, territorial benefits they were surreptitiously pursuing.

In the case of Salem with the very real fear of witches, accusers used the behaviour of the ‘afflicted’ girls and the beliefs of the judges and public to pursue their own self interests.

In the case of the Third Reich and the very real horrific death tolls in concentration camps, accusers also used the behaviour of the ‘afflicted’ jews and the beliefs of the judges and public to pursue their own self interests.
User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:41 am

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Nessie »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 1:10 pm ...Here’s another parallel with seeking and ‘finding’ evidence for something which is a pre-conceived ‘belief’ that doesn’t permit it’s fundamental premises to be questioned!

SALEM WITCHCRAFT: the Salem trial of alleged WITCHES relied on ‘evidence’ that was PREDOMINANTLY BASED upon the FALSE TESTIMONY and co-ordinated/choreographed group hysteria of allegedly ‘witchcraft afflicted’ girls + their claims about it being because they were controlled by ‘wicked witches’.
Simple, ‘believing’ minds accepted that very real phenomena of group behaviour as ‘proof’ of satanic sorcery.
And presumably the simple-minded girls themselves came to believe their group behaviour the more their peers and the judges did.
This is explained by herd mentality and group confirmity.
The witch trials were based entirely on witness evidence. No physical, documentary or other evidence was introduced to corroborate the claims being made, which is hardly surprising, since the casting of spells and flying on broom sticks are not physically possible.
HOLOCAUST MASS-GASSINGS: The post-war trials of alleged GENOCIDAL NSDAP WAR CRIMINALS relied on ‘evidence’ that was PREDOMINANTLY BASED upon the co-ordinated/choreographed group hysteria of alleged ‘jewish genocide survivors’ + their claims about surviving mass-gassing programmes.
Simple, ‘believing’ minds accepted that very real phenomena as ‘proof’ of wicked Nazis.
And we know many simple-minded jews themselves came to believe their group narrative the more their peers and the post-war judges did. This also to a degree can explained by herd mentality and group confirmity.
That is a common revisionist deception, to suggest there is a lack of documentary, physical and other evidence. In fact, there is a lot, from the Einsatzgruppen Reports, to the documents recovered from Topf & Sons and the Auschwitz Construction Office. Then there is the circumstantial evidence of millions of missing Jews and the physical and archaeological evidence of huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains, found at the sites where witnesses stated mass graves had been located. Plus, there is evidence of motive and opportunity, from the Final Solution, to AR, T4 and 14f13.
Plus in BOTH cases, there is compelling evidence that accusations were orchestrated by and came predominantly from people who: i.) wanted vengeance for perceived wrongs done against them; ii.) had economic, territorial benefits they were surreptitiously pursuing.
Again, that is a common revisionist deception, since the majority of the evidence to convict the Nazis, came from the Nazis themselves. They provide the largest group of eyewitnesses and the vast majority of documents. The physical evidence comes from camps they established and ran.
In the case of Salem with the very real fear of witches, accusers used the behaviour of the ‘afflicted’ girls and the beliefs of the judges and public to pursue their own self interests.

In the case of the Third Reich and the very real horrific death tolls in concentration camps, accusers also used the behaviour of the ‘afflicted’ jews and the beliefs of the judges and public to pursue their own self interests.
What was notable about the horrific death tolls in the concentration camps was that it primarily affected the Jewish prisoners. They were the ones found so starved, that many died from re-feeding syndrome. The POWs and political prisoners had not suffered like the Jews had. The Nazis, as was their stated policy, regarded the Jews as sub-human, unworthy of life. That action, to sacrifice Jews, was part of the evidence of motive and opportunity.

Then there was the issue of the whereabouts of prisoners. The Nazis could account for the vast majority of POWs. They could not for the vast majority of Jews. Millions had been arrested across Europe, 1939 to 1944, but only a few hundred thousand were liberated. Every country that had been occupied or aligned to the Nazis, was reporting that only a few of their Jewish citizens were returning home. That is strong circumstantial evidence that converges with the claims of mass murder.

The analogy of the trials of the Nazis, many of which were carried out by Germans, with the witch trials fails on almost every point. It gets very repetitive, having been there so many times before with this false analogy.
User avatar
Wahrheitssucher
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon May 19, 2025 2:51 pm

Re: Evidence and Implementation

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Sat Jun 07, 2025 1:10 pm
Wahrheitssucher wrote: Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:11 am
ConfusedJew wrote: Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:34 pm The Salem witnesses are considered false because they gave testimony based on dreams, visions, social pressure, and fear, rather than objective or verifiable facts. The Witch Trials were fueled by bad epistemology — a reliance on subjective claims and religious beliefs…
Regrettably this appears to be another argument from stubborn ignorance.
Plus it ignores the examples I listed of the “verifiable facts” provided in Salem to convict the accused ‘witches’ and ‘Devil accomplices’.

So here is further explanation of the parallels between ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing genocide belief and belief in the Salem ‘Witches’.
I don’t expect true-believers of ‘holocaust’ to be able to admit and concede this either. Too much is at stake for them to admit the parallels.
But others might enjoy it.
It is this:
those who were intelligent enough, plus logical, reasonable and independently minded enough to see how nonsensical and irrational the accusations of witchcraft were, and said so, became accused themselves.

The believers in wicked witches, witchcraft and the evil Devil were too much emotionally invested to allow rationality and reason to prevail against the majority, consensus ‘belief’ of that time. Therefore, anyone who spoke up and expressed doubt or disbelief was accused of also being a witch and a devil worshipper.

Just so, the people who are emotionally invested in the ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing genocide belief and in wicked ‘nazis’ are similarly too much emotionally invested to allow rationale and reason to prevail.
Consequently, those who today express doubt, question and refute any aspect of the majority, consensus ‘holocaust’ belief are accused of also being an anti-semite and a neo-nazi.
Here’s another parallel with seeking and ‘finding’ evidence for something which is a pre-conceived ‘belief’ that doesn’t permit it’s fundamental premises to be questioned!

SALEM WITCHCRAFT: the Salem trial of alleged WITCHES relied on ‘evidence’ that was PREDOMINANTLY BASED upon the FALSE TESTIMONY and co-ordinated/choreographed group hysteria of allegedly ‘witchcraft afflicted’ girls + their claims about it being because they were controlled by ‘wicked witches’.
Simple, ‘believing’ minds accepted that very real phenomena of group behaviour as ‘proof’ of satanic sorcery.
And presumably the simple-minded girls themselves came to believe their group behaviour the more their peers and the judges did.
This is explained by herd mentality and group confirmity.

HOLOCAUST MASS-GASSINGS: The post-war trials of alleged GENOCIDAL NSDAP WAR CRIMINALS relied on ‘evidence’ that was PREDOMINANTLY BASED upon the co-ordinated/choreographed group hysteria of alleged ‘jewish genocide survivors’ + their claims about surviving mass-gassing programmes.
Simple, ‘believing’ minds accepted that very real phenomena as ‘proof’ of wicked Nazis.
And we know many simple-minded jews themselves came to believe their group narrative the more their peers and the post-war judges did. This also to a degree can explained by herd mentality and group confirmity.

Plus in BOTH cases, there is compelling evidence that accusations were orchestrated by and came predominantly from people who: i.) wanted vengeance for perceived wrongs done against them; ii.) had economic, territorial benefits they were surreptitiously pursuing.

In the case of Salem with the very real fear of witches, accusers used the behaviour of the ‘afflicted’ girls and the beliefs of the judges and public to pursue their own self interests.

In the case of the Third Reich and the very real horrific death tolls in concentration camps, accusers also used the behaviour of the ‘afflicted’ jews and the beliefs of the judges and public to pursue their own self interests.
Clarification for anyone who may be having difficulty comprehending the fairly obvious parallels:
1.) hysterical girls acting peculiarly in unison; breasts of a middle-aged woman allegedly being full one day then empty the next; warts and moles on a person’s body; pigs unexpectedly dying; and other physically detectable occurrences perceived as misfortunes and calamities are ALL discernible realities well within the range of what can be deemed ‘physical evidence’ of something. When there is a pre-conditioned belief + confirmation bias, these things could be — and WERE — deemed proof of satanic sorcery.
It is the same sort of simple-minded and delusional pre-conditioned belief + confirmation bias that led people to believe a calculated deceit regarding an unevidenced 3 to 4 million disappeared jews, magically vanishing into never evidenced gas chambers and then non-existent colossal mass-graves (Treblinka) and supernatural ‘pools’ (Birkenau).

2.). Ensatzgruppen reports are OBVIOUSLY NOT proof of a massive mass-gassing programme.

Finally, there is another parallel between the witch trials at Salem starting in 1692 and the post war trials starting after 1945.
It is this:
BOTH — because of flawed understanding and deliberately malicious, deceitful, self-motivated deceptions — posed as being about combatting, exposing, eliminating and punishing wickedness.
Yet BOTH are regarded by fair-minded, knowledgeable, reasonable, decent people as ironically wicked and evil.

What the accusers and judges did at Salem at the end of the 17th century was wicked and evil.
Anyone who doesn’t recognise that now regarding Salem would be regarded as a superstitious simpleton or someone with wicked motivations.

I predict the day is not so far off when the same will apply to the show-trials of National Socialists who were — like at Salem — also accused of monstrous but never-properly evidenced crimes.
Post Reply