The CODOH Revisionist Forum

Nessie, we aren't moving the thread forward and we aren't going to change each other's point of view. Since if I respond directly to your last post, we will go in another circle, I won't, instead, let me refer you to our previous circles for my rebut. Rest assured, I think you are dead wrong.

To continue prattling at one another in this thread is an exercise in social masturbation, without the payoff.

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 3:53 pm Nessie, we aren't moving the thread forward and we aren't going to change each other's point of view. Since if I respond directly to your last post, we will go in another circle, I won't, instead, let me refer you to our previous circles for my rebut. Rest assured, I think you are dead wrong.

To continue prattling at one another in this thread is an exercise in social masturbation, without the payoff.

The maps corroborate the archaeological evidence, by placing the mass graves in the same two locations inside the camp, locations that when surveyed found pits and when excavated found cremains. All the witnesses also locate the mass graves in the same area. That corroborating evidence, proves mass graves.

Your attempts to claim I am somehow wrong about that, are failures. You are not swayed by evidence you do not want to accept, so that leaves you stuck thinking that you can argue there are no mass graves consistent with the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Jews. You dodge my point that you cannot argue there are no such mass graves, you have to evidence there are none. You cannot do that.

Nessie, when I say that there are 4 mass graves evidenced in the camp indicated by the best contemporary maps available, verified by the GPR/LIDAR, I'm not saying there are no mass graves.

When I say the grave behind the hospital is not crammed full of dead bodies, that is conjecture on my part, even that however, does not somehow make it not a mass grave.

People are buried at Treblinka II. In mass graves. Disagreement about how they got there doesn't make them not there.

We aren't arguing about the existence of mass graves, we are arguing about the placement of mass graves and about why you think there are 7 of them when the best contemporary maps indicate 4 or 5.

Bless your heart, that's really all I can say.

We've also already been over this, repeatedly.

It is not serving the thread or the forum for us to continue to beat this very, very dead horse.

(It took 18 pages for the thread to actually get to the point of even trying to establish the grave space, which I noticed months ago looking at these maps was roughly the size of a thimble for >850,000 people, and ever since Nessie kindly pointed out the map corresponded to 4 targets on the GPR/LIDAR, all he has done is try to include more grave space and say I was denying the existence of mass graves, I just want to make that clear for the future in case readers want a condensed version without having to scroll through all of the pages of the thread)

Except it's not really about revisionists "not working out" how something can be possible, is it Nessie? But rather than the explanations given don't demonstrate possibility, isn't it Nessie?

In this thread, Stubble and others have run you ragged on the grave-space conundrum and your answers are very weak. You are hesitant to address the actual critiques:

1) Show us where the 750,000 bodies-as-bodies were buried, and
2) Show us where the 750,000 bodies-as-ash are currently buried

If your two areas are concentric circles due to loss of mass from the incineration process, please explain this. If the areas are identical, please also explain this. I know you won't explain this, and I know you are cornered and so will retreat to """I can't work it out""" therefore you don't need to answer it.

Remember: you have chosen to defend this farce. You opt-in every time you log into Codoh or Twitter. Part of your entry price for this self-imposed opt-in is to defend the indefensible. We're waiting for something substantial.

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 4:24 pm Nessie, when I say that there are 4 mass graves evidenced in the camp indicated by the best contemporary maps available, verified by the GPR/LIDAR, I'm not saying there are no mass graves.

When I say the grave behind the hospital is not crammed full of dead bodies, that is conjecture on my part, even that however, does not somehow make it not a mass grave.

People are buried at Treblinka II. In mass graves. Disagreement about how they got there doesn't make them not there.

We aren't arguing about the existence of mass graves, we are arguing about the placement of mass graves and about why you think there are 7 of them when the best contemporary maps indicate 4 or 5.

Bless your heart, that's really all I can say.

We've also already been over this, repeatedly.

It is not serving the thread or the forum for us to continue to beat this very, very dead horse.

(It took 18 pages for the thread to actually get to the point of even trying to establish the grave space, which I noticed months ago looking at these maps was roughly the size of a thimble for >850,000 people, and ever since Nessie kindly pointed out the map corresponded to 4 targets on the GPR/LIDAR, all he has done is try to include more grave space and say I was denying the existence of mass graves, I just want to make that clear for the future in case readers want a condensed version without having to scroll through all of the pages of the thread)

4 mass graves at Treblink II huh?

Well then:

Executive Summary: It is alleged in orthodox historiography that, during WW II, hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive allegations to the contrary, the truth is, the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the one hundred graves / cremation pits that are fraudulently alleged to have been “scientifically proven” to currently exist at these sites, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, contained the remains of - ONLY FIVE PEOPLE.

...

A - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain, or to have been collected from, the remains of - at least 2 people.

...

CONCLUSION / STATEMENT OF FACT: Applying legal standards used in U.S. courts along with the information presented on this website, Greg Gerdes has LEGALLY PROVEN that the above alleged “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades, the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false, and the orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged.

NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE - PROVES - NO MASS MURDER

Additionally, and independent of any other reward offered on this website, a reward of - $5,000.00 - will be remitted to anyone who can refute the above conclusion / statement of fact in a publicized debate against Greg Gerdes. Rules are essentially the same as those for the other challenges on this site. Contact Greg Gerdes for details.

https://thisisaboutscience.com/

Why do people continue to try to "evidence" the existence of something that has already been legally proven to not exist?

Nessie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 4:13 pm The maps corroborate the archaeological evidence

There is no clear and convincing archaeological evidence.

None.

BTW, what is your definition of 'corroborate" Nessie?

Keen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:00 pm

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 4:24 pm Nessie, when I say that there are 4 mass graves evidenced in the camp indicated by the best contemporary maps available, verified by the GPR/LIDAR, I'm not saying there are no mass graves.

When I say the grave behind the hospital is not crammed full of dead bodies, that is conjecture on my part, even that however, does not somehow make it not a mass grave.

People are buried at Treblinka II. In mass graves. Disagreement about how they got there doesn't make them not there.

We aren't arguing about the existence of mass graves, we are arguing about the placement of mass graves and about why you think there are 7 of them when the best contemporary maps indicate 4 or 5.

Bless your heart, that's really all I can say.

We've also already been over this, repeatedly.

It is not serving the thread or the forum for us to continue to beat this very, very dead horse.

(It took 18 pages for the thread to actually get to the point of even trying to establish the grave space, which I noticed months ago looking at these maps was roughly the size of a thimble for >850,000 people, and ever since Nessie kindly pointed out the map corresponded to 4 targets on the GPR/LIDAR, all he has done is try to include more grave space and say I was denying the existence of mass graves, I just want to make that clear for the future in case readers want a condensed version without having to scroll through all of the pages of the thread)

4 mass graves at Treblink II huh?

Well then:

Executive Summary: It is alleged in orthodox historiography that, during WW II, hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive allegations to the contrary, the truth is, the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the one hundred graves / cremation pits that are fraudulently alleged to have been “scientifically proven” to currently exist at these sites, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, contained the remains of - ONLY FIVE PEOPLE.

...

A - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain, or to have been collected from, the remains of - at least 2 people.

...

CONCLUSION / STATEMENT OF FACT: Applying legal standards used in U.S. courts along with the information presented on this website, Greg Gerdes has LEGALLY PROVEN that the above alleged “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades, the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false, and the orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged.

NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE - PROVES - NO MASS MURDER

Additionally, and independent of any other reward offered on this website, a reward of - $5,000.00 - will be remitted to anyone who can refute the above conclusion / statement of fact in a publicized debate against Greg Gerdes. Rules are essentially the same as those for the other challenges on this site. Contact Greg Gerdes for details.

https://thisisaboutscience.com/

Why do people continue to try to "evidence" the existence of something that has already been legally proven to not exist?

Keen, I will certainly grant you that I can not currently go over to Poland and excavate the site to confirm contents. The map and the returns on the GPR/LIDAR give me a very strong hunch. For clarity and continuity, I said evidenced, not proven.

For further clarity, no dig will ever be conducted here. A dig would prove numbers that exterminationists deem paltry and reveal cause of death as a gunshot wound to the nape of the neck. The people in these holes, while jews, are also war criminals.

Perhaps someone will go and check, i recommend they put their shovel in the ground here;

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:22 pm

Keen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:00 pm

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 4:24 pm Nessie, when I say that there are 4 mass graves evidenced in the camp indicated by the best contemporary maps available, verified by the GPR/LIDAR, I'm not saying there are no mass graves.

When I say the grave behind the hospital is not crammed full of dead bodies, that is conjecture on my part, even that however, does not somehow make it not a mass grave.

People are buried at Treblinka II. In mass graves. Disagreement about how they got there doesn't make them not there.

We aren't arguing about the existence of mass graves, we are arguing about the placement of mass graves and about why you think there are 7 of them when the best contemporary maps indicate 4 or 5.

Bless your heart, that's really all I can say.

We've also already been over this, repeatedly.

It is not serving the thread or the forum for us to continue to beat this very, very dead horse.

(It took 18 pages for the thread to actually get to the point of even trying to establish the grave space, which I noticed months ago looking at these maps was roughly the size of a thimble for >850,000 people, and ever since Nessie kindly pointed out the map corresponded to 4 targets on the GPR/LIDAR, all he has done is try to include more grave space and say I was denying the existence of mass graves, I just want to make that clear for the future in case readers want a condensed version without having to scroll through all of the pages of the thread)

4 mass graves at Treblink II huh?

Well then:

Executive Summary: It is alleged in orthodox historiography that, during WW II, hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive allegations to the contrary, the truth is, the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the one hundred graves / cremation pits that are fraudulently alleged to have been “scientifically proven” to currently exist at these sites, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, contained the remains of - ONLY FIVE PEOPLE.

...

A - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain, or to have been collected from, the remains of - at least 2 people.

...

CONCLUSION / STATEMENT OF FACT: Applying legal standards used in U.S. courts along with the information presented on this website, Greg Gerdes has LEGALLY PROVEN that the above alleged “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades, the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false, and the orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged.

NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE - PROVES - NO MASS MURDER

Additionally, and independent of any other reward offered on this website, a reward of - $5,000.00 - will be remitted to anyone who can refute the above conclusion / statement of fact in a publicized debate against Greg Gerdes. Rules are essentially the same as those for the other challenges on this site. Contact Greg Gerdes for details.

https://thisisaboutscience.com/

Why do people continue to try to "evidence" the existence of something that has already been legally proven to not exist?

Keen, I will certainly grant you that I can not currently go over to Poland and excavate the site to confirm contents. The map and the returns on the GPR/LIDAR give me a very strong hunch. For clarity and continuity, I said evidenced, not proven.

Perhaps someone will go and check, i recommend they put their shovel in the ground here;

Well, you did say this: "Nessie, when I say that there are 4 mass graves evidenced in the camp indicated by the best contemporary maps available, verified by the GPR/LIDAR, I'm not saying there are no mass graves."

But you also said this: "People are buried at Treblinka II. In mass graves."

That is a statement of fact.

And you suggested by saying this: "The map and the returns on the GPR/LIDAR give me a very strong hunch." that you believe that those 4 yellow splotches are actual "huge mass graves." Fair enough - believe what you want about the existence of something that has already been legally proven to not exist.

Anyway. So splotches of yellow on a photo is "evidence" of mass graves huh? Interesting. But I would hardly call that convincing. There seems to be a very important element that's missing in this so-called "evidence." Mmmm, I wonder what that could be??? Oh yes - human remains. LOTS and LOTS of human remains. Maybe that's why Nessie is so terrified about the notion of debating me that he soils itself just thinking about the idea? Or why he's so afraid of answering these simple questions:

*9 - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Not one of the alleged - “HUGE MASS GRAVES” - of Treblinka II alleged by so-called “eyewitnesses” - has ever been proven to exist - ??

IV - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Covering millions upon millions of pounds of bones and teeth with “a thick layer of sand” makes them magically disappear - ??

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; If 15 graves contained the bones and teeth of 925,000 jews - then each grave would contain, on average, the remains of 61,667 jews - ??

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; If 7 graves contained the bones and teeth of 925,000 jews - then each grave would contain, on average, the remains of 132,143 jews - ??

A - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, etc. - were dug at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - ??

N - Can you conclusively prove that archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of at least one mass grave in at least one of the following camps: Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor or Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

5 - In total, how many single, disconnected human teeth have been tangibly discovered within the 15 Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question: __?__.

10 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.

15 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: __?__.

20 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: __?__.

25 - Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: __?__.

* The 15 so-called “scientifically proven” mass graves of Treblinka II are shown and numbered in the maps in this link here:

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=229 ... count=2843

(#1/86 though #15/100 of the alleged 100)

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 4:24 pm We aren't arguing about the existence of mass graves, we are arguing about the placement of mass graves and about why you think there are 7 of them when the best contemporary maps indicate 4 or 5.

So Nessie admits that 8 of the 15 alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II don't exist huh?

No wonder just the thought of debating me makes him soil itself.

Keen, you are correct, there are no legally proven mass graves at Treblinka, I misspoke.

It is my opinion that the best chance for any exterminationist to find a mass grave is to dig in the area indicated by the maps previously referred to and the returns indicated by the GPR.

Further it is my opinion that ghetto fighters transported to Treblinka II were briefly interviewed, then walked up the tube and shot. It would not surprise me if their families were also shot.

Keen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:51 pm

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 4:24 pm We aren't arguing about the existence of mass graves, we are arguing about the placement of mass graves and about why you think there are 7 of them when the best contemporary maps indicate 4 or 5.

So Nessie admits that 8 of the 15 alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II don't exist huh?

No wonder just the thought of debating me makes him soil itself.

He is still claiming the tank trap, yea. He seems to concede the broken property disposal areas.

I can't readily identify one of the pits he is claiming, it is the one on the other side of the monument from 4 pits I suppose to be mass burial pits, directly across the monument from the tank trap. G36 [#15/100]


>break<


In the future, I think I'm going to lean in to the Not Legally Proven angle and not just grant any mass grave out of hand, including Belzec. It's a bit of an ethical quandary, but, perhaps it will winnow the truth from the lie and get proper investigations done.

Thank you for this Keen, I appreciate it.

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 4:24 pm Nessie, when I say that there are 4 mass graves evidenced in the camp indicated by the best contemporary maps available, verified by the GPR/LIDAR, I'm not saying there are no mass graves.

When I say the grave behind the hospital is not crammed full of dead bodies, that is conjecture on my part, even that however, does not somehow make it not a mass grave.

People are buried at Treblinka II. In mass graves. Disagreement about how they got there doesn't make them not there.

We aren't arguing about the existence of mass graves, we are arguing about the placement of mass graves and about why you think there are 7 of them when the best contemporary maps indicate 4 or 5.

Bless your heart, that's really all I can say.

We've also already been over this, repeatedly.

It is not serving the thread or the forum for us to continue to beat this very, very dead horse.

(It took 18 pages for the thread to actually get to the point of even trying to establish the grave space, which I noticed months ago looking at these maps was roughly the size of a thimble for >850,000 people, and ever since Nessie kindly pointed out the map corresponded to 4 targets on the GPR/LIDAR, all he has done is try to include more grave space and say I was denying the existence of mass graves, I just want to make that clear for the future in case readers want a condensed version without having to scroll through all of the pages of the thread)

How many people are buried in the 4 mass graves that you accept at the camp? No guessing or estimating, show an evidenced answer or say you don't know. If you can evidence it, show the size of each grave.

Why do you accept the evidence of hand drawn maps, over GPR? Is it because the maps show fewer pits than GPR found and you want to minimise the number of mass graves at the site?

HansHill wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 5:47 pm Except it's not really about revisionists "not working out" how something can be possible, is it Nessie? But rather than the explanations given don't demonstrate possibility, isn't it Nessie?

In this thread, Stubble and others have run you ragged on the grave-space conundrum and your answers are very weak. You are hesitant to address the actual critiques:

1) Show us where the 750,000 bodies-as-bodies were buried, and
2) Show us where the 750,000 bodies-as-ash are currently buried

You have been repeatedly shown the evidence as to where the bodies are buried and the cremains are in the same locations and where the pyres were located. Those locations, according to eyewitness descriptions, the maps they drew, the 1945 aerial photo, the finds of cremains by the Poles in the 1945 and the 2011 geophysical survey are; the main graves are in the southeast part of the camp and there are some other graves in the Lazarete, in the south west part.

If your two areas are concentric circles due to loss of mass from the incineration process, please explain this. If the areas are identical, please also explain this. I know you won't explain this, and I know you are cornered and so will retreat to """I can't work it out""" therefore you don't need to answer it.

The pyres were located in between the main mass graves area and the Lazarete. That would explain why the cremains were spread over a larger area than the mass graves. From witnesses, cremains were dumped back into the graves, but they also ended up mixed into the ground and the 2011 walk over survey found cremains around the memorials.

Remember: you have chosen to defend this farce. You opt-in every time you log into Codoh or Twitter. Part of your entry price for this self-imposed opt-in is to defend the indefensible. We're waiting for something substantial.

It is actually really, really, simple. I can evidence my claims, with eyewitnesses, archaeology, photos and circumstances. You cannot evidence your claims. The indefensible farce, is your claim that hundreds of thousands of people were not murdered and buried and then cremated at TII, since you cannot evidence that!

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:22 pm ...

For further clarity, no dig will ever be conducted here. A dig would prove numbers that exterminationists deem paltry and reveal cause of death as a gunshot wound to the nape of the neck. The people in these holes, while jews, are also war criminals.

Perhaps someone will go and check, i recommend they put their shovel in the ground here;

A "dig" was conducted there, in 1945. They found large areas of cremated human remains, including skulls, with no sign of bullets or bullet wounds. The Einsazgruppen mass shooting sites are notable for the number of bullets that are found there. No bullets have been found at TII.

How would an archaeological excavation prove the Jewish victims were "war criminals"?

Stubble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:56 pm ....
He is still claiming the tank trap, yea.

You are lying. Where is this "tank trap"? From the geophysical survey;

https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/35 ... s12PhD.pdf

Please indicate what feature inside TII, is the "tank trap".

He seems to concede the broken property disposal areas.

That was never a concession. Smaller pits located outwith the main grave areas, are most likely where property was buried.

I can't readily identify one of the pits he is claiming, it is the one on the other side of the monument from 4 pits I suppose to be mass burial pits, directly across the monument from the tank trap. G36 [#15/100]

G36 is described as "Similarly, to the west of the memorial in this area a further feature was identified
that was also bisected by the concrete (G36). This feature was shown to be
rectilinear in plan within the GPR results and is located in the area believed to have
contained graves and, as noted by many witnesses, the cremation pyres"

It is located in the area identified by witnesses as containing graves, but it is closer to the central area where the gas chambers and pyres were located, so it is uncertain if it is a grave pit.

G50-54, shown here;



"Five pits were located with the GPR (G50-G54) on the eastern side of the Death
Camp (Figures 4.29 and 4.34). Although the GPR survey was unable to achieve a large
enough depth range to determine the full extent of these pits, it is possible to say
that they were all deeper than four metres and that they were all of considerable
size in plan (G50 was visible to an extent of 34m x 12m, G51-19m x 12m, G52 – 22m
x c.15m, G53 – c.18m x 7m and G54 was visible to 20.8m x c. 14m)."

That is a volume of 5,533m3, or over 2 Olympic sized swimming pools. That is the volume of grave space just it that small sliver of land between the main memorial and the trees. If the rest of the area could be surveyed, and it had the same density of pits, that would increase the grave volume by at least 4 times, so there would now be about 9 Olympic sized swimming pools worth of grave space in that area.

Thus, I have proven that large pits were dug at TII and there is space for the mass graves described by the eyewitnesses. You cannot counter me with any evidence, to prove what you highlight, is the limit for mass graves at the camp.