Exterminationist Tactics - part 2

[Numar Patru]

Give me a fucking break.

Germany invaded a critically weak USSR in June 1941. Stalin had purged the officer corps of the Red Army only two years earlier, and his popularity nationwide was abysmal. It’s no surprise the Germans were welcomed in many places as liberators. If they had done virtually anything to increase that goodwill, they might have won.

They did not. They assumed their racial superiority over the population, particularly Jews and Slavs, and acted accordingly. Fully one quarter of villages in Belarus were destroyed, to offer just one notable statistic on German war crimes.

“But the partisans!” people like you say. Bullshit. A reasonable reprisal is a group of men being shot in return for soldiers killed, not locking a whole village — women, children, and the elderly among them — in the local church and burning it down.

Fuck anyone who’d defend such barbarism.

[Stubble]

Give me a fucking break.

Germany invaded a critically weak USSR in June 1941. Stalin had purged the officer corps of the Red Army only two years earlier, and his popularity nationwide was abysmal. It’s no surprise the Germans were welcomed in many places as liberators. If they had done virtually anything to increase that goodwill, they might have won.

They did not. They assumed their racial superiority over the population, particularly Jews and Slavs, and acted accordingly. Fully one quarter of villages in Belarus were destroyed, to offer just one notable statistic on German war crimes.

“But the partisans!” people like you say. Bullshit. A reasonable reprisal is a group of men being shot in return for soldiers killed, not locking a whole village — women, children, and the elderly among them — in the local church and burning it down.

Fuck anyone who’d defend such barbarism.

I have always marked this as odd in the mental rolodex. I've seen the footage of the welcome the German Army got going in to Russia. They were liberators, and the locals showered the tanks in flowers.

I just assumed atrocity tales were propaganda. I cannot imagine, even from a statistical standpoint, what's less a moral one, strapping those people who greeted them with open arms to tank tracks.

I don't get it.

The decimations were initially of men. Later, they were of women and men. Until I watched an interview with an SS Stormtrooper, I didn't get that either. That I can explain. Some of the women were disembouling men, removing their genitals and placing them in their mouths etc.

Also, when you say children, the implication is always toddlers and babies. The fact is, sometimes teenagers get shot committing partisan action. Ultimately, they are fighting age.

An interview with a tanker;

[TlsMS93]

You can relativize it but obviously not accept it. It was the clash of two opposing ideologies, the war on the eastern front would not develop in a cavalier manner as Hitler anticipated, Soviet war methods were totally contrary to existing conventions, the Germans fighting in accordance with them would be their obligation but on the other side could be a contributing factor to a negative outcome in the war, so they bet on radicalization first, a German soldier killed and 100 in the neighborhood sacrificed to serve as an example, they saw that it did not pacify the terrain, they decided to give conventional treatment to guerrillas and political commissars, attitude never seen before.

In fact, partly blame Stalin, he publicly encouraged the partisans to attack the German army in the rear like a coward, which country in a similar situation would have the humanity and benevolence of Job? I repeat, we can relativize but not endorse such a response as they themselves reflected and changed their stance.

The primary issue was the communist system and not the people themselves, the Soviet regime which implied that such an attitude was due to racial issues and not the governance system. The Soviets' lame excuse for not signing the Geneva Convention in 1929 was because an article in it violated the Soviet constitution of treating soldiers and officers based on skin color.

[Numar Patru]

Some of the women were disembouling men, removing their genitals and placing them in their mouths etc.

Cool. You know that some of those soldiers were raping women and girls, right?

Look, I’m not going to defend every action undertaken by the Soviet people in defense of their country, but they were fucking defending their country against an invader that treated them as inhuman.

Also, when you say children, the implication is always toddlers and babies. The fact is, sometimes teenagers get shot committing partisan action.

I’m talking about whole villages of people being burned alive or shot if they escaped, including literal fucking babies. You don’t get to polish that turd.

[Stubble]

Some of the women were disembouling men, removing their genitals and placing them in their mouths etc.

Cool. You know that some of those soldiers were raping women and girls, right?

Look, I’m not going to defend every action undertaken by the Soviet people in defense of their country, but they were fucking defending their country against an invader that treated them as inhuman.

Also, when you say children, the implication is always toddlers and babies. The fact is, sometimes teenagers get shot committing partisan action.

I’m talking about whole villages of people being burned alive or shot if they escaped, including literal fucking babies. You don’t get to polish that turd.

Can you give me some examples?

I'm not trying to polish turds here, I'm winnowing for truth. There is a distinct difference.

Again, when the Germans went in, they were liberators, not invaders. I cannot fathom, even from a psywar standpoint, pissing that away.

[Numar Patru]

a German soldier killed and 100 in the neighborhood sacrificed to serve as an example, they saw that it did not pacify the terrain, they decided to give conventional treatment to guerrillas and political commissars, attitude never seen before.

Except they drafted the Commissar Order before the invasion, so there goes that idea.

In fact, partly blame Stalin, he publicly encouraged the partisans to attack the German army in the rear like a coward

They were defending their country against an invader who viewed them as animals.

The primary issue was the communist system and not the people themselves

Lemme guess: you’re a white Brazilian?

[Numar Patru]

Again, when the Germans went in, they were liberators, not invaders. I cannot fathom, even from a psywar standpoint, pissing that away.

You’re fond of speculating that Jews view gentiles as little more than cattle.

Take that speculative attitude toward the Nazis and Slavs. Figure it out.

[Stubble]

Again, when the Germans went in, they were liberators, not invaders. I cannot fathom, even from a psywar standpoint, pissing that away.

You’re fond of speculating that Jews view gentiles as little more than cattle.

Take that speculative attitude toward the Nazis and Slavs. Figure it out.

Again you misconstrue. I don't speculate, I can give you hours, literally hours of video of it being espoused...by rabbis and by jews.

That's for another thread though, let's not derail this one.

I'm just asking for some examples. Is that too tall an order? We are here to learn the truth, yes? I'll walk an uncomfortable path, so long as it is the true one.

If you don't want to point a direction, that's fine. Rest assured, if you ever stopped to ask me for directions, I would absolutely do my best to get you where you were going.

/shrug

[Numar Patru]

Did you miss me pointing the direction for you? Lemme be clearer.

Why did the Nazis squander all that good will?

Because of their racist belief in their superiority and their ingrained colonialism, which taught them everyone before them was theirs for the taking.

Some indigenous people in the US also greeted Europeans warmly. Same basic story.

[Stubble]

Did you miss me pointing the direction for you? Lemme be clearer.

Why did the Nazis squander all that good will?

Because of their racist belief in their superiority and their ingrained colonialism, which taught them everyone before them was theirs for the taking.

Some indigenous people in the US also greeted Europeans warmly. Same basic story.

And some captured and raped women, beheaded and disemboweled men, and burned settlements to the ground.

And to think in another thread I was the one accused of not doing shades of grey.

[SanityCheck]

I have always marked this as odd in the mental rolodex. I've seen the footage of the welcome the German Army got going in to Russia. They were liberators, and the locals showered the tanks in flowers.

That overwhelmingly happened in the western borderlands annexed in 1939-1940, not in territory which had been fully Soviet up to 1939. There was unsurprisingly also much less anti-German resistance in the western borderlands in 1941.

[Numar Patru]

Did you miss me pointing the direction for you? Lemme be clearer.

Why did the Nazis squander all that good will?

Because of their racist belief in their superiority and their ingrained colonialism, which taught them everyone before them was theirs for the taking.

Some indigenous people in the US also greeted Europeans warmly. Same basic story.

And some captured and raped women, beheaded and disemboweled men, and burned settlements to the ground.

You think only indigenous people did those things? And did you forget whose land was being encroached upon?

[Stubble]

Did you miss me pointing the direction for you? Lemme be clearer.

Why did the Nazis squander all that good will?

Because of their racist belief in their superiority and their ingrained colonialism, which taught them everyone before them was theirs for the taking.

Some indigenous people in the US also greeted Europeans warmly. Same basic story.

And some captured and raped women, beheaded and disemboweled men, and burned settlements to the ground.

You think only indigenous people did those things? And did you forget whose land was being encroached upon?

Numar, just some examples please, let's not further drift from the topic.

I'll happily cover this in a PM or a new thread with you.

This particular thread isn't the place.

[Stubble]

I have always marked this as odd in the mental rolodex. I've seen the footage of the welcome the German Army got going in to Russia. They were liberators, and the locals showered the tanks in flowers.

That overwhelmingly happened in the western borderlands annexed in 1939-1940, not in territory which had been fully Soviet up to 1939. There was unsurprisingly also much less anti-German resistance in the western borderlands in 1941.

I've seen footage of barbarossa where flowers were flung.

Yes, it happened famously in Austria. It also happened on barbarossa.

[SanityCheck]

I have always marked this as odd in the mental rolodex. I've seen the footage of the welcome the German Army got going in to Russia. They were liberators, and the locals showered the tanks in flowers.

That overwhelmingly happened in the western borderlands annexed in 1939-1940, not in territory which had been fully Soviet up to 1939. There was unsurprisingly also much less anti-German resistance in the western borderlands in 1941.

I've seen footage of barbarossa where flowers were flung.

Yes, it happened famously in Austria. It also happened on barbarossa.

During 'Barbarossa', the Germans had to traverse the western borderlands to reach the pre-1939 Soviet border and fully Sovietised territory. There were some cases of flowers and peasant bread-and-salt greetings in Soviet Ukraine, but they were far, far less common than in recently annexed western Ukraine.

The distinction between the annexed western borderlands and old Soviet territory was considerable in countless regards. To use Belarus as an example, as late as the first half of 1944, Soviet partisan strength was twice as great in eastern, pre-1939 Soviet Belarus as in western, pre-1939 Polish Belarus. And many of the partisan units operating in western Belarus had been pushed westwards in a deliberate show-of-force move, to reassert Soviet power. In western Belarus, they were also competing with the Polish Armia Krajowa, and indeed the Polish-Soviet partisan war in 1943-44 saw more clashes between these two forces than with the Germans. It was one of many de facto civil wars going on in the annexed western borderlands by this time.