Exterminationist tactics - a brief analysis

[TlsMS93]

Nessie has a point. If the hoaxers wanted to prove criminal usage, they would plant evidence in the form of Prussian Blue in the cellars.

I'll say that would have been significantly easier for them to do if there was a roof.

I'll also point out that the importance of Prussian Blue wasn't exactly understood when Auschwitz was captured.

Nessie has another point. He's not interested in the dead bodies. He doesn't want to talk about their prevalence or absence. He is interested in the location of the living bodies.

Pointing to the census and pointing out people with family members who weren't gassed in gas chambers at Auschwitz and were later reunited isn't sufficient.

Nessie wants to know where the resettled jews went. Sanity Check says resettlement is a euphemism for burn pit.

The challenge from the orthodoxy seems to be, find the jews. Personally I feel that is our challenge as revisionists. Find the missing jews.

If it weren't for the Soviets using the fields to carry out atrocities, AB would have been left intact, but 6 months earlier they were doing all sorts of things in Majdanek, which had Prussian Blues in several places, including trying and sentencing to death those who failed to escape in time, where they denied that there was a gas chamber. They didn't want to make their propaganda work easier at that point in the war, when morale was at its lowest.

I repeat, if destroying something is to cover up a crime, then the Eiffel Tower also had a gas chamber, because Hitler demanded that Paris be in flames.

[Stubble]

Of course the Eiffel Tower had a homicidal gas chamber. I've seen the footage from the us army with the hand prints of the people killed in it. In cement.

[HansHill]

Nessie has a point. If the hoaxers wanted to prove criminal usage, they would plant evidence in the form of Prussian Blue in the cellars.

I'll say that would have been significantly easier for them to do if there was a roof.

I'll also point out that the importance of Prussian Blue wasn't exactly understood when Auschwitz was captured.

This is an own-goal rather than a slam dunk. While it would indeed be the best singular thing a hoaxer could do, this just underscores how pivotal that Prussian Blue is to the presence or absence of HcN. This is by far the biggest indicator of criminal intent. Its absence doesn't prove absence of hoax... it proves absence of HcN.

Nessie has another point. He's not interested in the dead bodies. He doesn't want to talk about their prevalence or absence. He is interested in the location of the living bodies.

Pointing to the census and pointing out people with family members who weren't gassed in gas chambers at Auschwitz and were later reunited isn't sufficient.

Nessie wants to know where the resettled jews went. Sanity Check says resettlement is a euphemism for burn pit.

The challenge from the orthodoxy seems to be, find the jews. Personally I feel that is our challenge as revisionists. Find the missing jews.

Not really. Holocaust Revisionists can't be expected to double up as undocumented refugee detectives. Just to show how difficult it can be to track the mass movements of people through a war zone, just look at the number of undocumented immigrants are in the present day in USA:



This means, there are millions of uncounted and uncountable people who have evaded identification, and this is all in the modern day with modern technology, across a relatively political stable US / Mexico border.

Similarly with Europe, the number is in the millions.



If modern day governments cannot account for this degree of mass movements of people with all their available funding and technology, its beyond ridiculous to expect the Revisionist movement to be responsible for commenting on the presence and status of Jews (who are a notoriusly diaspora people with a disdain for integrating) from behind the iron curtain.

The best answer to "where did they go?" has and always will be:

"Jews went to where Jews are"

[HansHill]

I'll also point out that the importance of Prussian Blue wasn't exactly understood when Auschwitz was captured.

Ironically, Prussian Blue was well understood by German scientists, engineers, even artists. Its name "Prussian Blue" is an indicator of its links to Germany

It was even known and understood about its properties in interactions with walls, here is Arthur H Church (who was a chemist) writing about it as its applied to art, this was in 1915



Added to all of this, German Scientists had won 9 of the Nobel prizes in the interwar period. Germany was by far and away the most advanced country in the world. For all of these reasons and more, if anybody was aware of the importance of Prussian Blue, it was the Germans.

If anything, it was not understood by the Poles / Soviets / Jews, hence why they overlooked it for decades.

[Stubble]

Granted.

Personally I'm wondering what a statistically significant dataset of located jews supposedly gassed at Auschwitz Birkenau would look like. What would an exterminationist accept.

It's like with treblinka, you have the men and the women separated, right, then the men assume all the women are gassed and the women assume all the men were gassed, because they never saw them again.

Well, obviously that doesn't mean they are all dead, because you have the mens group of survivors and the women's group of survivors.

There was an assumption there. Because everybody 'knew' it was a death camp.

It's like being surprised when the water came down instead of the gas. Water always came down. There was no gas.

[Numar Patru]

Like I said in the past about Belzec — I’d accept five or six Jews identified to have been deported to Belzec (and we have such lists) found to have been alive elsewhere after the camp was closed.

Five out of 500,000. Should be a piece of cake, no?

[HansHill]

Well, obviously that doesn't mean they are all dead, because you have the mens group of survivors and the women's group of survivors.

My own personal opinion, which i could never prove is that of the ones who never reached Israel, USA or Ukraine, millions were likely Gulaged by Stalin and lived out their days under miserable conditions, torture, and death.

I can't prove that, but its very possible given what we know about the gulags, and the antisemitism of Soviet Russia. It seems fate is not without a bitter twist of irony, if that were to be the case.

>Accuse Germany of killing them
>Stalin kills them instead
>Stalin punishes Germany for killing them

[Numar Patru]

Again, the Stalin regime recorded such things meticulously, even when it would subsequently blame others for such crimes. The Soviet archives have been open for 30+ years and there’s no evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews arriving in Soviet territory post-1941.

And what bizarre fantasy has Jews ending up in Ukraine of all places?

[Stubble]

Like I said in the past about Belzec — I’d accept five or six Jews identified to have been deported to Belzec (and we have such lists) found to have been alive elsewhere after the camp was closed.

Five out of 500,000. Should be a piece of cake, no?

Here you go.

https://www.holocausthistoricalsociety. ... apees.html

With the low bar of 5, yes, easy.

Probably want to set the bar a little higher.

[Nessie]

That there are no Prussian blue stains inside the surviving remains of the Leichenkeller, is indicative that there has been no attempt to hoax, since a hoaxer would ensure the walls were bright blue.

Wrong again. That there are no Prussian Blue deposits indicates only one thing - that there was no chemical reaction in this location to cause Prussian Blue deposits. That's all it indicates. And if you extrapolate from that, that means an absence of HcN ever being present in the quantities and frequency claimed.

That assumes Rudolf is correct. There is no evidence to support him, such as a witness who said the Leichenkeller was only ever used to store corpses. Other scientists have reviewed his work and found faults in it. You are cherry-picking one claim and asserting it is correct despite all the evidence and opinion it is wrong.

That level of incompetence, is one of the many reasons a hoax on the scale alleged, is impossible. Despite all those cock-ups and false claims, revisionists still cannot find evidence to prove no mass gassings and resettlement took place instead.

Wrong yet again. The level of incompetence that you are correctly seeing, means that the hoax is extremely incompetent, full of "cock ups and false claims" to quote yourself. Revisionists are simply wading through the cock-ups,

Revisionists cherry-pick the cock-ups and claim that proves a hoax. They get the false impression the evidence for the Holocaust is weak, by concentrating on the cock-ups. But, crucially, they cannot evidence what happened, to prove it was a hoax. It is odd that a hoax you claim is "extremely incompetent" has survived the decades, when others, such as Katyn or Iraqi WMDs have not.

The Rudolf Report is a revisionist cock-up, an elaborate argument from ignorance and incredulity, that they cherry-pick and appeal to the authority of, in a festival of illogical thinking. But, that is typical of revisionists, who are unified by their inability to think logically.

That mass gassings using Zyklon B at the Krema has survived the test of time, is because of all the witnesses to gassings, the camp documents recording the construction of the gas chambers and the circumstantial evidence around the functioning of the buildings in 1943-4. Plus, no evidence has been traced to support various revisionist alternatives.

[Numar Patru]

Like I said in the past about Belzec — I’d accept five or six Jews identified to have been deported to Belzec (and we have such lists) found to have been alive elsewhere after the camp was closed.

Five out of 500,000. Should be a piece of cake, no?

Here you go.

https://www.holocausthistoricalsociety. ... apees.html

With the low bar of 5, yes, easy.

Probably want to set the bar a little higher.

You realize only three people on that list are known to have survived. A couple were sent back to Belzec. Another died in the Lublin ghetto. An escapee is not someone sent to the camp and said to have been murdered there.

Try harder. Read what you post, for starters.

[Nessie]

Nessie has a point. If the hoaxers wanted to prove criminal usage, they would plant evidence in the form of Prussian Blue in the cellars.

There is also the point that since the Nazis blew up Krema II in January 1944, the state of the walls is as they were before that and they could not be altered, or hoaxed, by the Soviets who liberated the camp, or the Poles who took over its running and preservation. Any hoax had to have happened whilst the Nazis were in charge.

I'll say that would have been significantly easier for them to do if there was a roof.

I'll also point out that the importance of Prussian Blue wasn't exactly understood when Auschwitz was captured.

Nessie has another point. He's not interested in the dead bodies. He doesn't want to talk about their prevalence or absence.

I have discussed that at length elsewhere. Why are you claiming I have no interest, when you have barely scratched the surface of what I have posted and discussed over the years?

He is interested in the location of the living bodies.

Pointing to the census and pointing out people with family members who weren't gassed in gas chambers at Auschwitz and were later reunited isn't sufficient.

Nessie wants to know where the resettled jews went. Sanity Check says resettlement is a euphemism for burn pit.

The challenge from the orthodoxy seems to be, find the jews. Personally I feel that is our challenge as revisionists. Find the missing jews.

Agreed, revisionism will forever be a theory, until evidence is provided as to where the Jews went.

[HansHill]

Again

Again what? What did you say in this thread that i'm supposed to recognise from this argument?

...and there’s no evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews arriving in Soviet territory post-1941....

I've read much on Stalin, and I will admit he was many things, including somewhat of a genius statesman. With that in mind, why on earth would he document his crimes if he was simultaneously prosecuting Germany for that exact same thing.

You're also forgetting they (likely) would have arrived in newly occupied German territory, and not Soviet territory. This territory would very much resemble "no mans land" under the chaos of the Eastern Front until the Soviet advance. They are then, from that moment, doomed behind the iron curtain. This was a terrible outcome for Jews, as many of them even testify to attempting to flee the advancing Soviets back to Germany.

Why Ukraine?

Jews love Ukraine, figure it out.

[Stubble]

Nessie has a point. If the hoaxers wanted to prove criminal usage, they would plant evidence in the form of Prussian Blue in the cellars.

There is also the point that since the Nazis blew up Krema II in January 1944, the state of the walls is as they were before that and they could not be altered, or hoaxed, by the Soviets who liberated the camp, or the Poles who took over its running and preservation. Any hoax had to have happened whilst the Nazis were in charge.

I'll say that would have been significantly easier for them to do if there was a roof.

I'll also point out that the importance of Prussian Blue wasn't exactly understood when Auschwitz was captured.

Nessie has another point. He's not interested in the dead bodies. He doesn't want to talk about their prevalence or absence.

I have discussed that at length elsewhere. Why are you claiming I have no interest, when you have barely scratched the surface of what I have posted and discussed over the years?

He is interested in the location of the living bodies.

Pointing to the census and pointing out people with family members who weren't gassed in gas chambers at Auschwitz and were later reunited isn't sufficient.

Nessie wants to know where the resettled jews went. Sanity Check says resettlement is a euphemism for burn pit.

The challenge from the orthodoxy seems to be, find the jews. Personally I feel that is our challenge as revisionists. Find the missing jews.

Agreed, revisionism will forever be a theory, until evidence is provided as to where the Jews went.

I apologize for any misrepresentation you feel I have given in my synopsis.

In my interactions with you, your stance has seemed to be you are not interested in the physical location of or problems with disposable of the dead, because in your eye the narrative is true and so however it was done, it was done. If that is a misrepresentation, I apologize.

The pressing issue remains, where are the living jews.

If the coal isn't a problem, the wood isn't a problem and the missing cremains aren't a problem, then it seems like the dead bodies, for you, aren't a problem.

[Nessie]

Nessie has a point. If the hoaxers wanted to prove criminal usage, they would plant evidence in the form of Prussian Blue in the cellars.

I'll say that would have been significantly easier for them to do if there was a roof.

I'll also point out that the importance of Prussian Blue wasn't exactly understood when Auschwitz was captured.

This is an own-goal rather than a slam dunk. While it would indeed be the best singular thing a hoaxer could do, this just underscores how pivotal that Prussian Blue is to the presence or absence of HcN. This is by far the biggest indicator of criminal intent. Its absence doesn't prove absence of hoax... it proves absence of HcN.

Rudolf's Report, on its own, with no supporting evidence, is insufficient to prove the no gassing claim. Your appeal to his authority, over all else, is a logical fallacy.

Nessie has another point. He's not interested in the dead bodies. He doesn't want to talk about their prevalence or absence. He is interested in the location of the living bodies.

Pointing to the census and pointing out people with family members who weren't gassed in gas chambers at Auschwitz and were later reunited isn't sufficient.

Nessie wants to know where the resettled jews went. Sanity Check says resettlement is a euphemism for burn pit.

The challenge from the orthodoxy seems to be, find the jews. Personally I feel that is our challenge as revisionists. Find the missing jews.

Not really. Holocaust Revisionists can't be expected to double up as undocumented refugee detectives.

The Nazis kept documented control over the identified and imprisoned Jews. That is why the ending of the documentary trail at certain camps, is important circumstantial evidence. Something happened, in specific places, that caused the Nazis to stop keeping records of millions of Jews. If millions of Jews were in Nazi captivity in 1943-4 that would have left a huge volume of documents, yet revisionists cannot even name the department responsible for their organisation and maintenance.

At the end of the war, Displaced Persons Agencies generated huge volumes of documents, for millions of people, but only a few hundred thousand Jews. Each country documented returning Jews.

Just to show how difficult it can be to track the mass movements of people through a war zone, just look at the number of undocumented immigrants are in the present day in USA:



This means, there are millions of uncounted and uncountable people who have evaded identification, and this is all in the modern day with modern technology, across a relatively political stable US / Mexico border.

Similarly with Europe, the number is in the millions.



If modern day governments cannot account for this degree of mass movements of people with all their available funding and technology, its beyond ridiculous to expect the Revisionist movement to be responsible for commenting on the presence and status of Jews (who are a notoriusly diaspora people with a disdain for integrating) from behind the iron curtain.

The best answer to "where did they go?" has and always will be:

"Jews went to where Jews are"

You are not looking for undocumented refugees, you are looking for Nazi documented prisoners in 1944 and liberated displaced persons in 1945, who unlike refugees, many of whom sought to return home, or were documented to have applied to migrate to the USA, the UK, or after 1949, Israel.

Chronologically, the start of the revisionist search is towards the end of 1941, and where the Jews from Kiev and those sent to Chelmno went. But that is too like hard work and revisionists know they will not find any evidence, so they come up with excuses.