Soviet POWs and Jews in the East

[TlsMS93]

It is that kind of flippant answer, along with Hannover's "they went where they went" that proves revisionism, or Holocaust denial, is not a genuine investigation.

Revisionism is genuine and in good faith. The problem with you and your type is you hate facts and cannot understand why somethings are just the way they are. You hate the truth because it would wreck your new world order and view of things from an israeli POV. Jews are where they went and that's the truth of it. The fact that you cannot deal with logic or add up and don't like anyone else who has a differing opinion to you is your problem and not mine mate.

Anti semitism is anything or any one a jew doesn't like.

"Jews are where they went"

You're still asserting historical events here, both a mass resettlement and corresponding vast conspiracy involving perhaps millions of people (since there's no evidence).

Why not believe the Jews were executed upon arrival in the east? There's actually evidence of this, into 1942. No evidence of resettlement on any scale.

You claim, without evidence, that there was a policy of covering up mass murders. Why would it be so unfeasible to claim that the victorious powers, especially the USSR, since it was the theater of war of such genocide, did not clean up records indicating the whereabouts of those 2 million Jews under their mercy? Saying that how could they support them, you are forgetting that they themselves admit that 26 million died in the war, so there were fewer mouths to take care of than in 1940.

[bombsaway]

[
You claim, without evidence, that there was a policy of covering up mass murders. Why would it be so unfeasible to claim that the victorious powers, especially the USSR, since it was the theater of war of such genocide, did not clean up records indicating the whereabouts of those 2 million Jews under their mercy? Saying that how could they support them, you are forgetting that they themselves admit that 26 million died in the war, so there were fewer mouths to take care of than in 1940.

There is evidence, eg for Reinhard -- the secrecy pledge, the destruction of all documents and facilities (globus to Himmler 44)

The Reinhard graves are also mostly empty evincing exhumation of bodies. In the Kola thread I asked Archie why and the other examples he gave were of cover ups.

The witnesses also speak of a cover up, high degree of secrecy.

You are just blatantly wrong here, the documents, witness and physical evidence is there for orthodoxy, you have nothing but speculation.

[bombsaway]

You have the burden of proof and you're not even close -- your vast network of liars have only portrayed that you are.

All historical narratives bear "the burden of proof". It's telling that this thread is about revisionists positive claims and yet it drifts off in this direction where you guys minimize the importance of providing that narrative.

The problems come for you when the parameters are shifted. Saying that there is some censorship, some people not speaking out, some documents suppressed or destroyed, this is clearly within the realm of possibility. But since none of these things have emerged, your narrative must encompass how this suppression was total, or virtually so. There's a world of difference between 50% and 99.99% suppression. It becomes exponentially more difficult as you approach the absolute, and you need to get close to that, or else you're relying on crazy coincidences like Jews not talking about or broadcasting their horrible experiences. Within your framing of Jews, these are master level complainers about the injustices that they faced. So your narrative needs a heavy conspiratorial element, eg the Soviets killing all the resettled Jews to prevent any of them talking about it.

The surviving witnesses are your chief problem. If they were treated well most would survive leaving an incredible amount of possible testimonies to be given. If most of them died that would speak to terrible conditions, which even in my conception of Jews, would lead the survivors to want to speak out and bear witness to those conditions.

This post was not responded but is highly relevant

[Stubble]

The jews went east. Hell, some of them were sent to work on rail lines and communications during barbarossa and issued black clothes and green armbands.

/shrug

Someone should have picked another jew to shout down David Cole about their dead family member so there could have been another reunion.

Maybe the jewish community could have done this 6,000,000 times...

It is that kind of flippant answer, along with Hannover's "they went where they went" that proves revisionism, or Holocaust denial, is not a genuine investigation.

I prefer, jews went where jews are...

People did die during ww2. There are jewish people that perished inside the concentration and labor camps. It wasn't a genocide, and they didn't get exterminated by the millions.

With the 'holocaust of bullets', soldiers don't earn wound badges for being shot 3 or more times in action and earn the highest grade of close combat clasp for murdering innocent women and children.

Reprisals for atrocities and terrorist attacks do not constitute genocide. Decimation does not represent genocide.

If the Germans wanted to kill every single jew, they would have, especially moving to the end of the war.

Why salvation march jews into Germany proper instead of killing them on the spot in the eastern camps? Why feed them, secure them, and care for them with valuable resources like medicine when they could just be dispatched, if you are waging a genocide?

[Nessie]

...

It is that kind of flippant answer, along with Hannover's "they went where they went" that proves revisionism, or Holocaust denial, is not a genuine investigation.

I prefer, jews went where jews are...

People did die during ww2. There are jewish people that perished inside the concentration and labor camps. It wasn't a genocide, and they didn't get exterminated by the millions.

With the 'holocaust of bullets', soldiers don't earn wound badges for being shot 3 or more times in action and earn the highest grade of close combat clasp for murdering innocent women and children.

Reprisals for atrocities and terrorist attacks do not constitute genocide. Decimation does not represent genocide.

If the Germans wanted to kill every single jew, they would have, especially moving to the end of the war.

Why salvation march jews into Germany proper instead of killing them on the spot in the eastern camps? Why feed them, secure them, and care for them with valuable resources like medicine when they could just be dispatched, if you are waging a genocide?

Where were the millions of Jews whom the Nazis arrested and revisionists deny were murdered 1939-1944, in 1944?

[Stubble]

East.

https://codoh.com/library/document/what ... hardt-cam/

East.

https://codoh.com/library/document/thre ... tation-of/

East.

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-1/

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-2/

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-3/

They went, east...

[Nessie]

East.

https://codoh.com/library/document/what ... hardt-cam/

East.

https://codoh.com/library/document/thre ... tation-of/

East.

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-1/

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-2/

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-3/

They went, east...

An example of the evidence from the last link;

"The transport of 1,000 Polish Jews arriving in Minsk on 31 July 1942 – one week after the opening of the Treblinka “death camp” and the beginning of the great evacuation of the Warsaw Ghetto"

The Warsaw ghetto was closed in May 1943, the Minsk ghetto in October 1943. So, where were millions of Jews in 1944? The last ghetto at Lodz closed in August 1944, so there were no ghettos left to accommodate millions of Jews, so that leaves the camps. The largest camp was A-B and its largest population was 152,000 in 1943, which had dropped to 114,000 in 1944.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/128 ... d-by-year/

The links you provide are very short of evidence from 1944. Fact is, revisionists cannot evidence millions of Jews in the east in 1944. That is because they had been killed.

[TlsMS93]

[
You claim, without evidence, that there was a policy of covering up mass murders. Why would it be so unfeasible to claim that the victorious powers, especially the USSR, since it was the theater of war of such genocide, did not clean up records indicating the whereabouts of those 2 million Jews under their mercy? Saying that how could they support them, you are forgetting that they themselves admit that 26 million died in the war, so there were fewer mouths to take care of than in 1940.

There is evidence, eg for Reinhard -- the secrecy pledge, the destruction of all documents and facilities (globus to Himmler 44)

The Reinhard graves are also mostly empty evincing exhumation of bodies. In the Kola thread I asked Archie why and the other examples he gave were of cover ups.

The witnesses also speak of a cover up, high degree of secrecy.

You are just blatantly wrong here, the documents, witness and physical evidence is there for orthodoxy, you have nothing but speculation.

You have nothing, just part of an incomplete puzzle that doesn't produce any image. Witnesses can only speak about what happened to them in their private life, they don't know the whole story and they couldn't.

The logic of first burying millions and then exhuming and cremating them is already insane, even more so if we talk about the Germans' ability to think rationally. Empty ground? LOL Bring me the ashes corresponding to 2 million people in those camps and I'll believe you, but not before. Don't invert the logic of those who must provide evidence of something here.

[bombsaway]

[
You claim, without evidence, that there was a policy of covering up mass murders. Why would it be so unfeasible to claim that the victorious powers, especially the USSR, since it was the theater of war of such genocide, did not clean up records indicating the whereabouts of those 2 million Jews under their mercy? Saying that how could they support them, you are forgetting that they themselves admit that 26 million died in the war, so there were fewer mouths to take care of than in 1940.

There is evidence, eg for Reinhard -- the secrecy pledge, the destruction of all documents and facilities (globus to Himmler 44)

The Reinhard graves are also mostly empty evincing exhumation of bodies. In the Kola thread I asked Archie why and the other examples he gave were of cover ups.

The witnesses also speak of a cover up, high degree of secrecy.

You are just blatantly wrong here, the documents, witness and physical evidence is there for orthodoxy, you have nothing but speculation.

You have nothing, just part of an incomplete puzzle that doesn't produce any image. Witnesses can only speak about what happened to them in their private life, they don't know the whole story and they couldn't.

The logic of first burying millions and then exhuming and cremating them is already insane, even more so if we talk about the Germans' ability to think rationally. Empty ground? LOL Bring me the ashes corresponding to 2 million people in those camps and I'll believe you, but not before. Don't invert the logic of those who must provide evidence of something here.

You're confused. You asserted no evidence of a cover up and I provided evidence of that.

Do you believe the graves at Belzec were exhumed and bodies destroyed, with ashes mixed with sand and dumped back in? Why was it done?

[TlsMS93]

There is evidence, eg for Reinhard -- the secrecy pledge, the destruction of all documents and facilities (globus to Himmler 44)

The Reinhard graves are also mostly empty evincing exhumation of bodies. In the Kola thread I asked Archie why and the other examples he gave were of cover ups.

The witnesses also speak of a cover up, high degree of secrecy.

You are just blatantly wrong here, the documents, witness and physical evidence is there for orthodoxy, you have nothing but speculation.

You have nothing, just part of an incomplete puzzle that doesn't produce any image. Witnesses can only speak about what happened to them in their private life, they don't know the whole story and they couldn't.

The logic of first burying millions and then exhuming and cremating them is already insane, even more so if we talk about the Germans' ability to think rationally. Empty ground? LOL Bring me the ashes corresponding to 2 million people in those camps and I'll believe you, but not before. Don't invert the logic of those who must provide evidence of something here.

You're confused. You asserted no evidence of a cover up and I provided evidence of that.

Do you believe the graves at Belzec were exhumed and bodies destroyed, with ashes mixed with sand and dumped back in? Why was it done?

Doesn't the fact that the Germans at that time took hygiene seriously and didn't want to risk contaminating the groundwater tell you anything?

You give no indication of the insanity of burying half a million people instead of cremating them immediately and of the fact that no ovens were provided compared to deliveries even to smaller camps.

The further east you go, the more mythical the Holocaust becomes. If the Nazis had known this, they would have left the camps intact and the numbers would have been much smaller, but fear of the Allied propaganda campaign that was already being felt abroad made them take measures to make it harder for themselves, especially in relation to the Soviets.

[Stubble]

East.

https://codoh.com/library/document/what ... hardt-cam/

East.

https://codoh.com/library/document/thre ... tation-of/

East.

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-1/

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-2/

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-3/

They went, east...

An example of the evidence from the last link;

"The transport of 1,000 Polish Jews arriving in Minsk on 31 July 1942 – one week after the opening of the Treblinka “death camp” and the beginning of the great evacuation of the Warsaw Ghetto"

The Warsaw ghetto was closed in May 1943, the Minsk ghetto in October 1943. So, where were millions of Jews in 1944? The last ghetto at Lodz closed in August 1944, so there were no ghettos left to accommodate millions of Jews, so that leaves the camps. The largest camp was A-B and its largest population was 152,000 in 1943, which had dropped to 114,000 in 1944.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/128 ... d-by-year/

The links you provide are very short of evidence from 1944. Fact is, revisionists cannot evidence millions of Jews in the east in 1944. That is because they had been killed.

Moving the goalposts are we?

1939 to 1944...

No no, that's 1942, that doesn't count...

See, you can't provide evidence to meet my standards....


Ok, well, if you are going to arbitrarily change your standards, during presentation of an argument, then I suppose you aren't worth debating.

They went east.

[bombsaway]

Doesn't the fact that the Germans at that time took hygiene seriously and didn't want to risk contaminating the groundwater tell you anything?

Please try to answer my questions without getting sidetracked.

Do you have any examples of graves being exhumed for this reason by the Germans?

Why did they destroy the bodies (reduce to tiny fragments) and deposit them back into the graves mixed with sand?

[Stubble]

Doesn't the fact that the Germans at that time took hygiene seriously and didn't want to risk contaminating the groundwater tell you anything?

Please try to answer my questions without getting sidetracked.

Do you have any examples of graves being exhumed for this reason by the Germans?

Why did they destroy the bodies (reduce to tiny fragments) and deposit them back into the graves mixed with sand?

Wait, I thought they tinned them and sent them back to Germany proper to fertilize cabbage?

[Nessie]

....

An example of the evidence from the last link;

"The transport of 1,000 Polish Jews arriving in Minsk on 31 July 1942 – one week after the opening of the Treblinka “death camp” and the beginning of the great evacuation of the Warsaw Ghetto"

The Warsaw ghetto was closed in May 1943, the Minsk ghetto in October 1943. So, where were millions of Jews in 1944? The last ghetto at Lodz closed in August 1944, so there were no ghettos left to accommodate millions of Jews, so that leaves the camps. The largest camp was A-B and its largest population was 152,000 in 1943, which had dropped to 114,000 in 1944.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/128 ... d-by-year/

The links you provide are very short of evidence from 1944. Fact is, revisionists cannot evidence millions of Jews in the east in 1944. That is because they had been killed.

Moving the goalposts are we?

1939 to 1944...

No no, that's 1942, that doesn't count...

See, you can't provide evidence to meet my standards....


Ok, well, if you are going to arbitrarily change your standards, during presentation of an argument, then I suppose you aren't worth debating.

They went east.

The 1942 transport does count. It is evidence of Polish Jews going east, to Minsk in 1942. That is brilliant for revisionism as it is evidence of relocation, rather than murder.

But, there is an obvious problem. Kues cannot just cherry pick that evidence and leave it there. He needs to be able to follow up that transport with what happened 1942-5. The war ended in 1945, not 1942. The Minsk ghetto closed in October 1943. So, where were the Jews taken to Minsk, after that date? Why was the ghetto closed?

Typically for revisionists, they do not know, or want to conduct a full, chronological investigation, 1939 to 1945. That is because they want to dodge the complete lack of evidence of millions of Jews still alive in 1944, in camps and ghettos. Not only is there a lack of evidence they were still alive, there is evidence they were dead, which is why the Warsaw and Minsk ghettos had closed down in 1943. They were no longer needed, because the Jews were dead.

That is why you want to go in a huff and run away from the debate. You know it is lost for you, but you cannot bring yourself to admit you are wrong.

[curioussoul]

What are you talking about? All minority groups were oppressed under the Soviets if they were viewed as possible allies of Germany.

By definition, Jews were not among these groups.

"By definition"... That's absolutely false. In particular, western Jews were considered potential Allied spies after the war and were treated with extreme suspicion by Soviet authorities. If you've read the MGK response to the HC White Paper, you've seen the New York Times article detailing the Soviet deportation to Ukraine of western/German Jews deported by the Germans to Gross-Rosen. These Jews did not speak a Slavic language and were very much out-of-place in Eastern Europe. The Soviets essentially had them 'trapped' behind the Iron Curtain. The NYT article tells the story of two Jewish sisters from Germany who were forcibly deported to Ukraine by the Soviets after the war, and ended up living most of their lives there. They were only able to leave after the collapse of the Soviet Union.