Why did the zionists not go prior to the holocaust?

[borjastick]

Just a thought.

If the 'jewish problem' existed as claimed and was accepted by the European jewish communities in the many decades prior to WW2 to the point that Theodor Herzl discussed it at the first zionist congress in 1897 what stopped them simply leaving Europe for Palestine? After all we are told by the same Zionist liars that Palestine was a land without people for a people with land.

If a group of people genuinely feared for their lives why would they not just go? Why wait for the Balfour Declaration during WW1 and then continue to wait until they were 'exterminated'.

[TlsMS93]

Britain offered the region of El-Arish in the Sinai Peninsula for Jewish settlement but after a trip to the site the Zionists rejected the proposal.

In 1903, the British government proposed a territory in Kenya to Herzl, the father of Zionism, but this was also rejected.

In 1905, at the seventh Zionist Congress, it was definitively decided that only Palestine was of interest to the poor.

Herzl died a year earlier but the movement continued and in 1908 the Palestine Land Development Company was founded.

For Herzl, anti-Semitism was a necessary evil for his aspirations, so keeping Jews around the world until anti-Semitism reached boiling point would be the most assertive approach. Thinking long-term, Zionism was not attractive to the strongly Orthodox Jewish masses where he hoped returning to Israel only to die and thus be resurrected first when the world to come came, with the Holocaust, that rejection of Zionism collapsed.

"Israel as a Jewish State constitutes a danger not only to itself and its inhabitants, but to all Peoples and States of the Middle East and beyond."

Prof. Israel Shahak, Jew and founder of the Israeli League for Human Rights

[Numar Patru]

Just a thought.

If the 'jewish problem' existed as claimed and was accepted by the European jewish communities in the many decades prior to WW2 to the point that Theodor Herzl discussed it at the first zionist congress in 1897 what stopped them simply leaving Europe for Palestine? After all we are told by the same Zionist liars that Palestine was a land without people for a people with land.

If a group of people genuinely feared for their lives why would they not just go? Why wait for the Balfour Declaration during WW1 and then continue to wait until they were 'exterminated'.

They did. Tens of thousands of Zionist Jews moved to Palestine decades before WWII began such that nearly half a million lived in Palestine by 1939. If your question regards why more Jews didn't go to Palestine, the answer is that most Jews had no interest in Zionism.

[TlsMS93]

Just a thought.

If the 'jewish problem' existed as claimed and was accepted by the European jewish communities in the many decades prior to WW2 to the point that Theodor Herzl discussed it at the first zionist congress in 1897 what stopped them simply leaving Europe for Palestine? After all we are told by the same Zionist liars that Palestine was a land without people for a people with land.

If a group of people genuinely feared for their lives why would they not just go? Why wait for the Balfour Declaration during WW1 and then continue to wait until they were 'exterminated'.

They did. Tens of thousands of Zionist Jews moved to Palestine decades before WWII began such that nearly half a million lived in Palestine by 1939. If your question regards why more Jews didn't go to Palestine, the answer is that most Jews had no interest in Zionism.

But you don't need to be interested in an ideology to do something. To this day, there are more Jews outside than inside Israel, even though they say that anti-Semitism is exploding everywhere.

The connection with Israel is purely religious and the Zionists exploited this, even during the Roman Empire there were significant Jewish communities in several places, Babylon, Alexandria

So the majority of Jews residing outside of Israel today are quite secular, even those who still declare themselves religious and do not feel in danger in any way, on the contrary, expect more hostility in Israel itself. Jews do not need Israel, they can be Jews anywhere but they want a special status within these countries, a status that their religion did not allow to opposing peoples when they were autonomous there, this roughly explains anti-Semitism.

[Numar Patru]

But you don't need to be interested in an ideology to do something. .

Back then, you did, especially if it meant uprooting your life and putting down whatever profession you'd be practicing to become a farmer.

To this day, there are more Jews outside than inside Israel, even though they say that anti-Semitism is exploding everywhere

Most people prefer not to leave their homes. Most Jews outside Israel likely believe their security is better where they live. I'm unsure what your point is.

Jews do not need Israel, they can be Jews anywhere but they want a special status within these countries, a status that their religion did not allow to opposing peoples when they were autonomous there, this roughly explains anti-Semitism.

A special status? Like what?

[fireofice]

There were migrations of Jews to Palestine in several waves called "Aliyahs" going back before Hitler even came to power in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

A video on the topic here:

https://odysee.com/@TheFascifist:c/On-T ... d-Israel:7

[TlsMS93]

But you don't need to be interested in an ideology to do something. .

Back then, you did, especially if it meant uprooting your life and putting down whatever profession you'd be practicing to become a farmer.

To this day, there are more Jews outside than inside Israel, even though they say that anti-Semitism is exploding everywhere

Most people prefer not to leave their homes. Most Jews outside Israel likely believe their security is better where they live. I'm unsure what your point is.

Jews do not need Israel, they can be Jews anywhere but they want a special status within these countries, a status that their religion did not allow to opposing peoples when they were autonomous there, this roughly explains anti-Semitism.

A special status? Like what?

Most people don't act because they believe in something, in fact people act out of necessity and not because they believe in something, even believing in something is because there is a need behind it. Perhaps the religious sentimental factor spoke louder for some Jews at the beginning of the last century, especially if they had relatives there or even hearing rumors of an arms race for fear of being involved in this conflict, there are always catalysts.

My point is that anti-Semitism is not the only explanation to convince an entire group to go and live in a difficult land, there are those who are willing to take the risk or do not see the need to immigrate once the narrative of the atrocity has won the hearts and minds of the people. people and therefore the danger is more marginal and not imminent, there is persecution here and there but it is not widespread.

And the special status is do not create laws that force me to do or not do something that goes against my self-determination or my religion, special status creates in the collective unconscious that there is a dominant class, even more so if it presents itself as having representation in almost all means of power, political, economic, media and philosophical. Wherever they are, they infiltrate to tip the balance towards their own interests and not those of the community, something unthinkable if the opposite were possible.

Funny, Israel is the only state that doesn't seem to need immigrants.

[Numar Patru]

And the special status is do not create laws that force me to do or not do something that goes against my self-determination or my religion,

Such as?

Wherever they are, they infiltrate to tip the balance towards their own interests and not those of the community, something unthinkable if the opposite were possible.

They being Jews?

[TlsMS93]

And the special status is do not create laws that force me to do or not do something that goes against my self-determination or my religion,

Such as?

Wherever they are, they infiltrate to tip the balance towards their own interests and not those of the community, something unthinkable if the opposite were possible.

They being Jews?

See, ultra-Orthodox and anti-Israel groups accuse their own of having risen up against the nations they went to and that this resulted in extreme persecution, all to live as a separate entity from the collective of that country instead of obeying the laws locals preferred to conspire to obtain advantages, to obtain advantages whether through financial or political means is to create a special status, it is the same as what Jehovah's witnesses seek, to live comfortably refusing the recruitment laws of their countries, that is what? I'm from Brazil and here on Saturdays you couldn't sell or buy slaves at the time, just to give an example.

Jews will deny that they are such, a Jew is only the guy who wins the Nobel Prize, never the guy who does something stupid. No Jew in the USSR was a real Jew, they were all anarchist atheists and that's how the scheme goes, whenever I want I'll stop being a Jew but if widespread persecution happens we'll all be Jews.

How many Jews actually perished in the Holocaust according to this strategy of denying they were Jews according to convenience?

[Numar Patru]

No Jew in the USSR was a real Jew, they were all anarchist atheists and that's how the scheme goes, whenever I want I'll stop being a Jew but if widespread persecution happens we'll all be Jews.

Well, not anarchists, but certainly atheists. Trotsky definitely was an atheist, but according to the government of the USSR, he was Jewish because his father was. In that country, it was an ethnic/national designation.

How many Jews actually perished in the Holocaust according to this strategy of denying they were Jews according to convenience?

Most Jews are perfectly aware that the mere denial doesn’t render them not Jewish anymore.

[borjastick]

A tiny percentage of jews leaving Europe to find a new life in Palestine made little difference to the good of the whole. If they really thought they had been persecuted and were in real danger in the future they would have left no matter how religious or not they felt. Indeed I would go further to say that all pictures of jews from 100 years ago or in the run-up to the second war shows jews looking like jews and as such I would argue they were religious and thus if the danger to them was real (in Russia as well as further west) they would have made the trip to 'the promised land'.

[Numar Patru]

They did. Fully a million to the US, plus thousands more to places outside of Eastern Europe. Beginning in the 19th century, Jews went to the US, Palestine, Latin America, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and even Western Europe, where they believed they were safer from arbitrary violence.

[borjastick]

They did. Fully a million to the US, plus thousands more to places outside of Eastern Europe. Beginning in the 19th century, Jews went to the US, Palestine, Latin America, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and even Western Europe, where they believed they were safer from arbitrary violence.

A small percentage is what you mean. Good for them for leaving. But you are missing my point, perhaps deliberately, about the majority of jews who if they thought they were in mortal danger would have left when they could Instead they stayed put and only after their holocaust did they rush out the back door. Doesn't make sense to me.

As I think Hannover once said here 'the holocaust is all about 6m jews who didn't exist being killed in gas chambers that cannot be shown'.

[Numar Patru]

They did. Fully a million to the US, plus thousands more to places outside of Eastern Europe. Beginning in the 19th century, Jews went to the US, Palestine, Latin America, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and even Western Europe, where they believed they were safer from arbitrary violence.

A small percentage is what you mean. Good for them for leaving. But you are missing my point, perhaps deliberately, about the majority of jews who if they thought they were in mortal danger would have left when they could Instead they stayed put and only after their holocaust did they rush out the back door. Doesn't make sense to me.

As I think Hannover once said here 'the holocaust is all about 6m jews who didn't exist being killed in gas chambers that cannot be shown'.

I mentioned this is another thread, but Raul Hilberg made the point 60+ years ago that resistance by Jews to the Nazis was mostly nonexistent because most Jews did not believe extermination was among the possibilities of things that might happen to them. Jewish history had taught them that they would experience hardship, and many might die, but the Jewish people as a whole would survive. The circumstances under the Nazis were unprecedented, Hilberg argued, and thus a certainly complacency among Jews persisted even as proof of extermination mounted.