Kula Columns

[Nessie]

Because you can go look at it. Hell, you can get on maps, swap over to satellite view and take a peak. There are various photographs and videos of it taken by many different people.

The roof is collapsed, but, the floor is right there.

Securing the Kula column to the floor, would mean drilling small holes for bolts and you are suggesting they can be viewed from space by satellite...

Please link me to a photo you have seen, that clearly shows the floor, so that small bolt holes, that could have been filled in after the columns were removed, would be seen.

[Stubble]

Didn't say you could examine the floor closely from space jackass, I said you could confirm they exist. They are extant. They can be inspected.

So far as concrete fastening in the 1940's, bolts and anchors were not used as they had not been developed for that specific application. Hoops were common but would have been cast in place, same with threaded rods.

Regardless, nobody has found a corresponding hole, hoop, rod or anything else for that matter. Literally nothing to secure them.

Earlier you acted like this was no big deal. Now, I have to prove nothing, or there was, something?

Nobody has found anything, and people have looked.

[Nessie]

Didn't say you could examine the floor closely from space jackass, I said you could confirm they exist. They are extant. They can be inspected.

So far as concrete fastening in the 1940's, bolts and anchors were not used as they had not been developed for that specific application. Hoops were common but would have been cast in place, same with threaded rods.

Regardless, nobody has found a corresponding hole, hoop, rod or anything else for that matter. Literally nothing to secure them.

Earlier you acted like this was no big deal. Now, I have to prove nothing, or there was, something?

Nobody has found anything, and people have looked.

I want to see evidence that the floors of the Liechenkelers in the remains at Kremas II and III, can and have been examined in the level of detail to conclusively determine if anything like the Kula columns have been attached to them.

I think you are making claims up and there has been no such detailed examination.

[Stubble]

I'll go dig up some of the articles I've read in this regard, I don't have them on tap. I'm not making this up though, it's been done buddy.

I thought it was no big deal. Didn't you say something about timbers on the floor or something in your first post? It was so ridiculous I couldn't even find words.

Here is something;

'Such attachments to concrete that were used at that time were flat steel anchors which were dovetailed at the lower end; the wedge type anchor bolts which are used today were not yet invented. The anchors were, if properly planned ahead, installed prior to the pouring of concrete for the foundation. But they could have been added later by providing manually with hammer and chisel a narrow hole of 10 to 15 cm depth, filling it with mortar and setting the anchor. (upper sketch). The steel angles 50/50/10 at the corners of the columns could have been bolted or welded to them.'

https://codoh.com/library/document/no-d ... holocaust/

[Nessie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42144186



The Kremas II & III were blown up. No one has since removed all the rubble from the Leichenkeller to examine the floor.

https://www.tracesofwar.com/sights/1467 ... itz-II.htm



https://www.businessinsider.com/auschwi ... chambers-8

[HansHill]

It's actually worse for the Kula Column theorists than it appears initially.

Two eye-wtinesses, Sonderkommandos nonetheless, Shaul Chazan and Lemke Phlishko, who were both working in the crematoria, both said the mesh columns were circular, were perforated metal and most interestingly, did not come all the way down to the floor, but rather the pellets fell out the bottom and onto the floor so they could be swept up off the floor later.

Remember, these were Sonderlommandos and so these guys would know best, right? So to answer your question Stubble, no they were sort of hovering above the bottom of the floor

Excerpt from Shaul Chazan's testimony:

[Greif] Did the grid column through which the gas was dropped reach all the way down to the floor?

[Chazan] Nearly to the floor. One had left a space which made it possible to clean there. One poured water out and brushed up the remaining pebbles.”

G. Greif, Wir weinten tränenlos… Augenzeugenberichte der jüdischen “Sonderkommandos” in Auschwitz, Böhlau Verlag, Cologne/Weimar/Vienna 1985, p. 237.

[Stubble]

Muller also says perforated metal and the implication is that this was to evenly spread the pellets in the room. I'll see if I can find the passage. He says they were fake empty columns, so, the implication at least, is that they touched the floor.

Page 60, Eyewitness Auschwitz;

'The Zyclon B gas crystals were inserted through openings into hollow pillars made of sheet metal. They were perforated at regular intervals and inside them a spiral ran from top to bottom in order to ensure as even a distribution of the granular crystals as possible.'

[Stubble]

Some reading;

https://ihr.org/journal/v20n5p33_Renk.html

And a question, when were the 4 holes cut into the concrete of lk1 on krema II? Because in the photo Nessie linked, they would be impossible to miss by, literally everybody prior to the year 2000. The study's overhead aerial shot looks a bit different...



https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... ure1.shtml

Also of note, in the mid '60's, the debris from the roof of lk1 at krema III was removed and the floor was inspected. No trace of any mount for the kula columns was found. JCP apparently remarked on this. I will see if I can dig up the relevant comments on this fact.

[Stubble]

I kind of thought somebody would address the fact that Nessie presented a picture of the destroyed furnace room slab for krema III loosely as the destroyed room of lk1 for krema II. Nobody did.

There is also the removal of debris in the mid 60's to inspect the floor at krema III that found no correspondent holes in the floor for mounting the kula columns.

The kula columns are a myth.

[Nessie]

I kind of thought somebody would address the fact that Nessie presented a picture of the destroyed furnace room slab for krema III loosely as the destroyed room of lk1 for krema II. Nobody did.

I posted pictures under a comment about the Kremas being blown up.

There is also the removal of debris in the mid 60's to inspect the floor at krema III that found no correspondent holes in the floor for mounting the kula columns.

The kula columns are a myth.

I want to see this inspection report. You cannot just cherry-pick it and ignore the other evidence for the columns.

[Stubble]

I'll try to grab the report. Pressac mentions it, but, I'm not sure it is available online. I'll make an effort to find it for you.

[HansHill]

...other evidence for the columns....

What utter drivel am I reading now? There is no evidence for the Kula columns whatsoever.

Material - they do not exist, nor have they ever been demonstrated to exist. It has never been shown how, where, or when they were supposedly affixed to the adjoining infrastructure, nor has the extant infrastructure been shown to contain any support mechanisms for these columns.

Eyewitnesses disagree fundamentally on the i) appearance, ii) operational design iii) functionality and iv) purpose of the columns. Additionally, they are an extremely poor attempt at a Deus Ex Machina solution for getting the pellets into the room and back out again, as the columns only serve to raise more questions than they answer.

Van Pelt, who's IQ is seemingly somewhere north of 100, realised all of the above and did his darnedest to make them work, but he really had an uphill battle on his hands, so it fell apart.

[Stubble]

Sheet metal is surely easily confused with wire mesh when you are interacting with these things daily. We can't expect someone to remember how something worked or what something looked like Mr Hill, that's far to high a bar.

[Nessie]

...other evidence for the columns....

What utter drivel am I reading now? There is no evidence for the Kula columns whatsoever.

Material - they do not exist, nor have they ever been demonstrated to exist. It has never been shown how, where, or when they were supposedly affixed to the adjoining infrastructure, nor has the extant infrastructure been shown to contain any support mechanisms for these columns.

After that confident assertion there is no evidence....you go on to discuss the evidence.... It is quite comical how revisionists like to assert there is no evidence, as they discuss that very evidence. I think you do it, to distract yourself from what there really is no evidence for, such as people showering, or clothes being deloused, or corpses being stored, inside the Kremas 1943-4.

Eyewitnesses disagree fundamentally on the i) appearance, ii) operational design iii) functionality and iv) purpose of the columns. Additionally, they are an extremely poor attempt at a Deus Ex Machina solution for getting the pellets into the room and back out again, as the columns only serve to raise more questions than they answer.

Van Pelt, who's IQ is seemingly somewhere north of 100, realised all of the above and did his darnedest to make them work, but he really had an uphill battle on his hands, so it fell apart.

All the witnesses agree that there were columns. That they then vary with how they describe the columns, is to be expected. Witness memory and recall is not where near as good in the details, in reality, as to what revisionists think it should be. If you asked a dozen people, a year or so after they had visited the display of a replica column, to describe it, they would vary as to their dimensions & how they were made. Sorry, but you are just displaying your ignorance of witness behaviour and evidence.

Your opinion, on the functionality of the columns, has no evidential value. Just because you think they were a poor attempt, does not therefore mean they did not exist. You are trying to construct an argument from incredulity, which is a logically flawed argument. You do that, because you have no evidence.

[HansHill]

After that confident assertion there is no evidence....you go on to discuss the evidence....

....All the witnesses agree that there were columns. That they then vary with how they describe the columns, is to be expected.....

Here we have it again, friends: When eyewitness testimony is i) demonstrably contradictory, ii) operationally unfeasible and iii) unsupported by the material record, our exterminationist friends will favour the testimony above all else.

You don't have a murder weapon, and no amount of kvetching will conjour one up.