
Correspond with the yellow areas that are the G50-54 pits found in the 2011 survey here;

Bear in mind the orientations are different.
My gosh Nessie! You are right!
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
I believe in the Roman positive, black and white and not in circumstances, not in anecdotal testimonies, not in code words, in my legal system and in the culture in which I am inserted this does not satisfy, if it satisfies you that is your problem, I do not make extrapolations, Jews with their stories and traditions do this from their literature, the problem is wanting the rest of the world to swallow this, I will not contest whether biblical events were historical or not with Jews, now in a classroom it is different, with the Holocaust it is the same thing.Nessie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:18 pm
So-called revisionists have rejected a Polish and British surveys and they will reject any and all, no matter the source, when they merely confirm what has already been found. This is why it is more accurate to call people deniers, as all they do is deny the evidence of mass graves. They produce zero evidence to prove there were no mass graves.
It is a slight diversion but ultimately these are complementary topics.joshk246 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 4:36 pmbombsaway wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 4:23 pmthis question is a diversion from the archeological evidence, the point of the thread
the archeological evidence, based on the immediate post war survey, indicates mass burial and body destruction
most of the camp is now forested, so the GPR scans of the non-forested parts do not allow us to set a limit on maximum amount of grave space in the campThe mass graves rely on the cremation fairytale being true.this question is a diversion from the archeological evidence, the point of the thread
No cremations = No mass graves.
I’ll concede it’s a slight diversion off topic, this thread has become very repetitive.
This overlay of the pits (yellow) found by GPR around the memorial, on the 1944 aerial photo, shows that G50-54 are at the edge of the disturbed ground in the area of the camp identified as the main grave area. That area was recorded by the 1945 survey as 2 hectares, with an excavation that was 7m deep before undisturbed ground was found.Stubble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:39 pm
My gosh Nessie! You are right!
Could that be the grave space available?
Guys, guys, I think we have solved it! The graves were at that spot, it corresponds to the witnesses and everything!
Eureka!
So, how many hectares of grave space are we talking Nessie? How much volume?
(This is the available space for burial...)
Neither the Polish nor the British surveys were conducted by Jewish people. The majority of the eyewitnesses to the mass graves, were German or Ukrainian SS staff. Many of the photos were taken by Germans.TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 5:36 pmI believe in the Roman positive, black and white and not in circumstances, not in anecdotal testimonies, not in code words, in my legal system and in the culture in which I am inserted this does not satisfy, if it satisfies you that is your problem, I do not make extrapolations, Jews with their stories and traditions do this from their literature, the problem is wanting the rest of the world to swallow this, I will not contest whether biblical events were historical or not with Jews, now in a classroom it is different, with the Holocaust it is the same thing.Nessie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:18 pm
So-called revisionists have rejected a Polish and British surveys and they will reject any and all, no matter the source, when they merely confirm what has already been found. This is why it is more accurate to call people deniers, as all they do is deny the evidence of mass graves. They produce zero evidence to prove there were no mass graves.
My gosh! That's 56 Olympic swimming pools Nessie!Nessie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 09, 2025 8:38 amThis overlay of the pits (yellow) found by GPR around the memorial, on the 1944 aerial photo, shows that G50-54 are at the edge of the disturbed ground in the area of the camp identified as the main grave area. That area was recorded by the 1945 survey as 2 hectares, with an excavation that was 7m deep before undisturbed ground was found.Stubble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:39 pm
My gosh Nessie! You are right!
Could that be the grave space available?
Guys, guys, I think we have solved it! The graves were at that spot, it corresponds to the witnesses and everything!
Eureka!
So, how many hectares of grave space are we talking Nessie? How much volume?
(This is the available space for burial...)
That main grave area is now mostly covered by the larger memorial. The pits at the other side, are in the Lazarette area, which was also shown by witnesses to have mass graves. Part of that is covered by the smaller memorial. The pits around the gas chambers (blue) are potential graves, but they may be for waste. It is all in the report, if you bothered to read it.
That means the witnesses are corroborated by the photographic evidence of disturbed ground and the archaeological evidence of large pits in an area of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains. That volume of evidence proves mass graves.
Since we have witness estimations of the grave sizes and the memorial prevents a full site survey, we cannot say, precisely, how large the original mass graves were.
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
You are arguing that because you cannot figure out, to your satisfaction, how so many corpses could have been buried (and then cremated) at the AR camps, therefore, there were no mass graves containing c850,000 corpses at TII. The reason why you are resorting to that argument, is because you lack evidence.Archie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 09, 2025 3:04 am ....
It is a slight diversion but ultimately these are complementary topics.
They only want to talk about ash because this is a way for them sweep 95% of the problem under the rug. The big difficulty for them is the enormous initial body mass and jumping ahead to ash is their way of skipping over the hard part. The issue of the initial burial space (of WHOLE bodies) and the issue of cremation both highlight the same underlying problem which is what happened to the 40,000,000 kg of so of human tissue.
Actual, confirmed mass graves in the real world tend to have relatively pedestrian burial densities, usually not even 5 bodies per cubic meter. They are unable to cite a single confirmed example of a grave, even a small one, that has a density approaching their absurd 20 or 30 bodies per cubic metric. The claim there were ever 1.5M bodies buried at the AR camps is already looking extremely doubtful on this point alone. But when you add to this the additional difficulty of cremating such a mass of bodies in open air this gives us additional certainty that the story is totally absurd.
At Treblinka, they would have had to have burned around 6,400 bodies per day for months. We can debate exactly how much wood such an operation might require (there are a range of possible assumptions), but even in dedicated cremation ovens the Germans were using around 30 kg of fuel per corpse. Taking that as a rough minimum, we are looking at something like 200 metric tons of wood per day (for months) as a very conservative figure. If they couldn't burn all those bodies, then they were never there to begin with. They generally assume that every last inch of disturbed soil was absolutely packed with bodies. The cremation angle is further reason to reject this claim.
Yes, the area bordered by pits G50-54, the inner boundary of the camp and the gas chambers, is the 2 hectare area, with a volume of 56 Olympic sized pools, within which the mass graves were dug. (The yellow line is the outer boundary) You can see from the GPR and pits G50-54, how close together the graves were, so that they took up a large part of that total volume.Stubble wrote: ↑Wed Jul 09, 2025 8:53 amMy gosh! That's 56 Olympic swimming pools Nessie!Nessie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 09, 2025 8:38 am ....
This overlay of the pits (yellow) found by GPR around the memorial, on the 1944 aerial photo, shows that G50-54 are at the edge of the disturbed ground in the area of the camp identified as the main grave area. That area was recorded by the 1945 survey as 2 hectares, with an excavation that was 7m deep before undisturbed ground was found.
That main grave area is now mostly covered by the larger memorial. The pits at the other side, are in the Lazarette area, which was also shown by witnesses to have mass graves. Part of that is covered by the smaller memorial. The pits around the gas chambers (blue) are potential graves, but they may be for waste. It is all in the report, if you bothered to read it.
That means the witnesses are corroborated by the photographic evidence of disturbed ground and the archaeological evidence of large pits in an area of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains. That volume of evidence proves mass graves.
Since we have witness estimations of the grave sizes and the memorial prevents a full site survey, we cannot say, precisely, how large the original mass graves were.
Have we, been over this before?
I was arguing about Babi Yar, that the photo was taken from so high up, that it would be impossible to see corpses on the ground, or if something was being burned, what it was. The TII aerial photo clearly shows where the ground has been disturbed, compared to the ploughed fields around it and the occupied parts of the camp, where buildings had been located, and the ground is much lighter.Also, I don't think you are qualified to examine an aerial photograph, are you? I seem to recall you berating people for looking at aerial photographs in the babi yar thread...
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
That is another map that has north to the left. The aerial photos have north to the top. The map above, again, locates the main mass graves in the south-eastern corner of the camp, inside the inner boundary, again, consistent with G50-54.Stubble wrote: ↑Wed Jul 09, 2025 9:50 am Nessie, the witnesses put four large mass graves where the 4 returns are at the 'top' of the camp.
They don't put mass graves in the woods, they don't put mass graves hidden under a rock, they don't put mass graves on a boat, on a float, on a train, in the rain. They do not put them there Nessie no, that is not where the mass graves go.
If you have a problem with the map I prefer, here is another collaborative early map for you.
The eyewitnesses, their maps, the 1945 survey, the GPR, and the aerial photo, all locate the main mass grave area as being in the south east of the camp, with more graves in the lazarette in the south west. That area of the camp is about a third of the camp, or 5-6 hectares. That is easily enough space for the 2 hectares described in the 1945 survey.Notice the congruence with the other map and with the GPR/LIDAR, also notice it is slightly more fleshed out and now includes the pit at the camp hospital.
Now, in the sorting area, it doesn't show the pits on the GPR/LIDAR from Colls. There still aren't any graves in the damn trees.
Now, Nessie, you are again trying to sell me 2 hectares with 56 Olympic swimming pools of grave space, and I still ain't buying it.
What, the other darker fields near by, they are grave space too? You can tell grave space by color? On a black and white photograph? No, Nessie, you can't.
I don't care how the story evolved over time, these collaborative maps are early, they were drawn using multiple sources and they are congruent, not just with one another, but also with the GPR/LIDAR data from the Colls study. Now, that's one hell of a coincidence if you are going to try to palm this off like that. That's evidencing...
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
The aerial photo with the overlay of the yellow mass graves found by GPR, the blue gas chambers and the orange barracks, fits with the witness descriptions of where they were located.Stubble wrote: ↑Wed Jul 09, 2025 10:17 am Nessie, that's quite the inversion of reality there. I think you need to reread my earlier post.
Also, the returns in the sorting area are not mass graves, they are property disposal for broken shit. That's why you find busted combs and toothbrushes and worn out shoes and shit, not any of the 48,000,000 teeth there...
G50-54 are five mass graves and at least another at the lazarette. G36 is also next to the main memorial, so that makes at least 7. The area that can be surveyed is clearly limited by the memorial and trees.You have 4 mass graves, and possibly a mass grave at the camp hospital, although, when you crack that one open, I don't expect you to find a metric f ton of bodies.
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.