Archaeological Evidence of Mass Graves at Treblinka II

[Stubble]

There also might be burial space in Florida Bombsaway, however, no one ever claimed the nazis shipped the jews from treblinka II to Florida to be buried, just like no one ever claimed the jews were buried on the fence line, what's more, go ahead, add the 'suspected' area that 'may' have been disturbed to your calculus, it won't change the fact that twice the population of liverpool still doesn't fit.

I'm not asking you to do my work for me, in any way. All I'm asking for is an honest presentation from your side of the coin about what is there vs what isn't there.

There are a couple of rocks out there I'm sure, maybe they hid the jews under them.

For fucks sake you guys are grasping at straws here.

For posterity;



In case some folks haven't seen it.

[bombsaway]

There also might be burial space in Florida Bombsaway, however, no one ever claimed the nazis shipped the jews from treblinka II to Florida to be buried, just like no one ever claimed the jews were buried on the fence line, what's more, go ahead, add the 'suspected' area that 'may' have been disturbed to your calculus, it won't change the fact that twice the population of liverpool still doesn't fit.

I'm not asking you to do my work for me, in any way. All I'm asking for is an honest presentation from your side of the coin about what is there vs what isn't there.

There are a couple of rocks out there I'm sure, maybe they hid the jews under them.

For fucks sake you guys are grasping at straws here.

For posterity;



In case some folks haven't seen it.

look at page 148 of her study bro, the forested area (area f) makes up the majority of the camp

This, in bold, is your statement, and has been your statement. You're the one making assertions, I'm saying there is no logical justification for it, or it has not been provided. Balls in your court now.

[Nessie]

This aerial photo, of the camp as it was in 2011, with the areas that the survey found to have disturbed ground, compared to the size of the camp and how much is taken up by trees and the memorial, will be ignored by so-called revisionists;



The description of the pits around the main memorial;

""Five pits were located with the GPR (G50-G54) on the eastern side of the Death
Camp (Figures 4.29 and 4.34). Although the GPR survey was unable to achieve a large
enough depth range to determine the full extent of these pits, it is possible to say
that they were all deeper than four metres and that they were all of considerable
size in plan (G50 was visible to an extent of 34m x 12m, G51-19m x 12m, G52 – 22m
x c.15m, G53 – c.18m x 7m and G54 was visible to 20.8m x c. 14m). Given their
location in the area thought to contain most of the mass graves and their proximity
to the memorial, there is a strong case for arguing that they represent further
disposals. Similarly, they appear too large to be a result of post-war looting activity.
Similarly, to the west of the memorial in this area a further feature was identified
that was also bisected by the concrete (G36). This feature was shown to be
rectilinear in plan within the GPR results and is located in the area believed to have
contained graves and, as noted by many witnesses, the cremation pyres."

Now, because you could not bury the population of Liverpool, twice over, in that space, apparently there are no mass graves at TII, is the nonsensical argument. But, they are only a small part of the entire area, within which the mass graves were located. There will be mass graves in the trees and under the memorial, as there was no way the Poles, in the 1960s, could have managed to only planted or covered over undisturbed ground, leaving the only pits in open ground.

Add that to Nazi, Jewish and Polish descriptions of excavators digging at the camp, the Kurt Franz photos of excavators at the camp and the 1944 aerial photo and 1945 ground photos, showing large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains and, only in the conspiratorial world of so-called revisionists, is there not enough evidence to prove mass graves.

[HansHill]

This aerial photo, of the camp as it was in 2011, with the areas that the survey found to have disturbed ground, compared to the size of the camp and how much is taken up by trees and the memorial, will be ignored by so-called revisionists;



The description of the pits around the main memorial;

""Five pits were located with the GPR (G50-G54) on the eastern side of the Death
Camp (Figures 4.29 and 4.34). Although the GPR survey was unable to achieve a large
enough depth range to determine the full extent of these pits, it is possible to say
that they were all deeper than four metres and that they were all of considerable
size in plan (G50 was visible to an extent of 34m x 12m, G51-19m x 12m, G52 – 22m
x c.15m, G53 – c.18m x 7m and G54 was visible to 20.8m x c. 14m). Given their
location in the area thought to contain most of the mass graves and their proximity
to the memorial, there is a strong case for arguing that they represent further
disposals. Similarly, they appear too large to be a result of post-war looting activity.
Similarly, to the west of the memorial in this area a further feature was identified
that was also bisected by the concrete (G36). This feature was shown to be
rectilinear in plan within the GPR results and is located in the area believed to have
contained graves and, as noted by many witnesses, the cremation pyres."

Now, because you could not bury the population of Liverpool, twice over, in that space, apparently there are no mass graves at TII, is the nonsensical argument. But, they are only a small part of the entire area, within which the mass graves were located. There will be mass graves in the trees and under the memorial, as there was no way the Poles, in the 1960s, could have managed to only planted or covered over undisturbed ground, leaving the only pits in open ground.

Add that to Nazi, Jewish and Polish descriptions of excavators digging at the camp, the Kurt Franz photos of excavators at the camp and the 1944 aerial photo and 1945 ground photos, showing large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains and, only in the conspiratorial world of so-called revisionists, is there not enough evidence to prove mass graves.

Nice try, Nessie of the Gaps. Everything CSC found was consistent with the Revisionist position, and to extrapolate any further from her findings is just that, baseless extrapolation - ie God Of The Gaps

[Nessie]

....

Nice try, Nessie of the Gaps. Everything CSC found was consistent with the Revisionist position, and to extrapolate any further from her findings is just that, baseless extrapolation - ie God Of The Gaps

I would not call where the memorial and trees are, gaps. They have just restricted what could be surveyed and look how much of that ground has been dug up. That matches witness descriptions and drawn plans of the grave area, showing multiple graves close together.

The use of the term probable, is typical of any scientific report, where it leaves future potentials open. The survey did not dig into the pits, but there is a very high probability, based on the walk over survey that found cremains on the surface, eyewitness evidence and 1945 Polish excavations, that they do contain human remains.

C S-C finding are not consistent with a so-called revisionist position, because there is no such position. Instead, there are multiple competing theories, none of which evidence what the Nazis were doing with excavators at the camp and why they dig up so much of the ground.

[Nazgul]

why they dig up so much of the ground.

Aerial bombing.

[Nessie]

why they dig up so much of the ground.

Aerial bombing.

The evidence from eyewitnesses to excavators at TII in 1942, the eyewitnesses to mass graves in the camp, the Kurt Franz 1943 photos of excavators and the 1944 aerial photo, showing disturbed ground prior to the arrival of the Soviets, all prove that the Nazis were excavating there and the ground disturbances cannot be put at the door of the Soviets.

Furthermore, Soviet explosives resulted in the exposure of human and cremated remains, which means ground disturbances predate their arrival later in 1944.

[Nazgul]

The evidence from eyewitnesses to excavators at TII in 1942, the eyewitnesses to mass graves in the camp, the Kurt Franz 1943 photos of excavators and the 1944 aerial photo, showing disturbed ground prior to the arrival of the Soviets, all prove that the Nazis were excavating there and the ground disturbances cannot be put at the door of the Soviets.

Furthermore, Soviet explosives resulted in the exposure of human and cremated remains, which means ground disturbances predate their arrival later in 1944.

The current TII was a Judenlager attached to the arbeitslager TI, near the quarry. I do not see ground disturbance in the following image.

mapa-1.jpg (79.16 KiB) Viewed 57 times

As mentioned so many times, the scenario you put on the table is not supported by Marian Olszuk nor the elders of the nearby town who put the extermination camp at Kosow Lacki SW of the arbeitslager. The current TII is NW of Wólka Okrąglik. I am not talking about soviet explosives but aerial bombs and artillary shells exploding.

To be fair there would be ground disturbance as latrines needed to be dug.

[Nessie]

Look at the uniform shading of the ploughed fields around the camp and how inside the camp is a mix of so many shades of ground with some areas showing rectangular outlines. There are planted and vegetation free areas, mixed together. That photo, along with all the other evidence I listed, proves how disturbed the ground was, prior to the arrival of the Soviets.

[Nazgul]

Look at the uniform shading of the ploughed fields around the camp and how inside the camp is a mix of so many shades of ground with some areas showing rectangular outlines. There are planted and vegetation free areas, mixed together. That photo, along with all the other evidence I listed, proves how disturbed the ground was, prior to the arrival of the Soviets.

The buildings were set on fire remember.

[Nessie]

Look at the uniform shading of the ploughed fields around the camp and how inside the camp is a mix of so many shades of ground with some areas showing rectangular outlines. There are planted and vegetation free areas, mixed together. That photo, along with all the other evidence I listed, proves how disturbed the ground was, prior to the arrival of the Soviets.

The buildings were set on fire remember.

Indeed, the camp was demolished, planted over, and left guarded. All by the Nazis. What were they doing there? Why did they use excavators? Why did Soviet bombs uncover so many human remains?

[joshk246]

Look at the uniform shading of the ploughed fields around the camp and how inside the camp is a mix of so many shades of ground with some areas showing rectangular outlines. There are planted and vegetation free areas, mixed together. That photo, along with all the other evidence I listed, proves how disturbed the ground was, prior to the arrival of the Soviets.

The buildings were set on fire remember.

Indeed, the camp was demolished, planted over, and left guarded. All by the Nazis. What were they doing there? Why did they use excavators? Why did Soviet bombs uncover so many human remains?

Why did Soviet bombs uncover so many human remains?

“so many”, not a single complete body.

[Nessie]

The buildings were set on fire remember.

Indeed, the camp was demolished, planted over, and left guarded. All by the Nazis. What were they doing there? Why did they use excavators? Why did Soviet bombs uncover so many human remains?

Why did Soviet bombs uncover so many human remains?

“so many”, not a single complete body.

It was the Nazi intention to leave no complete corpses, to prevent a body count, as was managed at Katyn. The grave robbing and use of explosives, made finding whole corpses even less likely.

Have you made any effort to read up on the history of the camp?

[Nazgul]

It was the Nazi intention to leave no complete corpses, to prevent a body count, as was managed at Katyn. The grave robbing and use of explosives, made finding whole corpses even less likely.

The Staff in the area would know nothing about Katyn. Bombs do explode but are not really explosives as you mention.

[Nessie]

It was the Nazi intention to leave no complete corpses, to prevent a body count, as was managed at Katyn. The grave robbing and use of explosives, made finding whole corpses even less likely.

The Staff in the area would know nothing about Katyn. Bombs do explode but are not really explosives as you mention.

Wiernik stated Katyn was the reason why the Nazis started to exhume and cremate corpses.