Archaeological Evidence of Mass Graves at Treblinka II

[Nazgul]

You are continuing with your constant theme, of coming up with excuses to dismiss evidence of huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains, rather than evidencing huge areas of undisturbed ground, which would prove no mass graves.

You are holding the default position within your cerebral hiatus that the graves existed and the ground was undisturbed despite the contrary information given. Within the current Treblinka compound (Judenlager) there were graves, as the dead who arrived on train and who died by other means were not sent to local cemeteries. You and some old communists are claiming that the Germans murdered people buried them, dug them up and cremated them. The soviets bombed that place to smitherines, the craters going much deeper than the alleged burial pits. This was a few years before Poland was annexed by the Soviets. The Soviets were trying to blame Germans for atrocities and so were the Polish Communists in late 45. How could there be undisturbed ground after a massive bombardment; what an incredibly stupid question asked considering the context of the given information including the evidence from the Jews; re-think your vacuous post.

[Nessie]

You are continuing with your constant theme, of coming up with excuses to dismiss evidence of huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains, rather than evidencing huge areas of undisturbed ground, which would prove no mass graves.

You are holding the default position within your cerebral hiatus that the graves existed and the ground was undisturbed despite the contrary information given. Within the current Treblinka compound (Judenlager) there were graves, as the dead who arrived on train and who died by other means were not sent to local cemeteries. You and some old communists are claiming that the Germans murdered people buried them, dug them up and cremated them.

Nazis and Jews, who worked inside TII, state that there were mass graves, that were then exhumed and the corpses cremated. Local Poles speak to months of cremations, with smoke and smells coming from the camp. Post war surveys of the camp site, have found huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains.

The soviets bombed that place to smitherines, the craters going much deeper than the alleged burial pits.

So far, your evidence for that, consists of a Polish Jewish Commission's emotive condemnation of the Soviet use of explosives at the site. You have provided no evidence any crater caused by an explosion went deeper than any dug pit.

This was a few years before Poland was annexed by the Soviets. The Soviets were trying to blame Germans for atrocities and so were the Polish Communists in late 45. How could there be undisturbed ground after a massive bombardment; what an incredibly stupid question asked considering the context of the given information including the evidence from the Jews; re-think your vacuous post.

I am asking you about the buried remains the explosives unearthed. How did they get there? Your previous answer was "rumour"! You then concede dead were buried at the camp, but claim they were dead from the transports or people who otherwise died inside the camp, but you refuse to provide any evidence to show how many died and were buried.

Typically for a so-called revisionist you are evidence free, or your level of evidencing, is woeful.

[HansHill]

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Slop slop slop slop slop.

You don't have 750,000 bodies' worth of ash. Nowhere close.

[Stubble]

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Slop slop slop slop slop.

You don't have 750,000 bodies' worth of ash. Nowhere close.

Ask him about the 3.5 Olympic swimming pools...

[joshk246]

Nazis and Jews, who worked inside TII, state that there were mass graves, that were then exhumed and the corpses cremated. Local Poles speak to months of cremations, with smoke and smells coming from the camp. Post war surveys of the camp site, have found huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains.

Local Poles can "speak to months of cremations", but you have no reasonable explanation for how Soviet reconnaissance planes didn't document this huge outside cremation operation.
Here's how Weirnik explains it- “Whenever an airplane was sighted overhead, all work was stopped, the corpses were covered with foliage as camouflage against aerial observation.”
Nessie, do you actually believe that?

So far, your evidence for that, consists of a Polish Jewish Commission's emotive condemnation of the Soviet use of explosives at the site. You have provided no evidence any crater caused by an explosion went deeper than any dug pit.

From that Polish Jewish Commission report:
November 9, 1945
"The excavations began at the location described by the witness Rajzman on November 6, where the so-called ‘camp hospital’ had stood and where, according to the witness, a mass grave is supposed to exist. Since a bomb crater 4 to 5 meters deep is present at the said location – two bombs still lie at a slight distance from this crater – the digging was begun in this crater"[...] "No human remains were found"."


November 10, 1945
The work was continued, with 36 workers who had been commandeered for roadwork. At a depth of 6 meters begins a layer which has never before been uncovered by anyone. It consists partly of all sorts of kitchen utensils and different kinds of household objects; there are also pieces of clothing. At a depth of 7 meters, we reached the bottom of the pit – a layer of yellow sand which is not mixed with gravel."[...] "During the course of the excavations, numerous more or less badly damaged Polish documents were discovered, in addition the badly damaged personal identity card of a German Jew, as well as several more coins: Polish, German, Russian, Belgian, and even American. After we had made certain that this pit, filled with broken pieces of the containers al- ready mentioned, ran in a north-south direction on the grounds of the camp area – 2 meters more [in a northerly direction] had been excavated – the workers started work at this location."

November 11, 1945
"The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments at- test to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters"[...] "Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, still partially in a state of decomposition. The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, and is of a dark gray color, granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped."

I don't see how you think this report strengthens your narrative. At least the Soviet report gave a nice admission- “At the present it is difficult to uncover the traces and secrets of this oven for the cremation of people, but based upon the available data, one can picture it.”
This is like Rosenblat's 'In my mind it was real'.

I am asking you about the buried remains the explosives unearthed. How did they get there? Your previous answer was "rumour"! You then concede dead were buried at the camp, but claim they were dead from the transports or people who otherwise died inside the camp, but you refuse to provide any evidence to show how many died and were buried.

They found a few skulls and body parts which were still decomposing, not a single intact body or skeleton was found"Those aren’t just bones," "There are still pieces of half-rotted corpses lying there, bunches of intestines.". The decomposing body parts and skulls void of gunshot wounds do not make sense if we take the orthodox narrative. And, what about the prisoners allegedly killed in the revolt + the 30,000 Jews sent from the ghetto of Bialystok. Nothing.

Typically for a so-called revisionist you are evidence free, or your level of evidencing, is woeful.

Ironic!

[Nessie]

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Slop slop slop slop slop.

You don't have 750,000 bodies' worth of ash. Nowhere close.

In your opinion. I look at what has been found at the AR camps and Chelmno and then cannot find anything equivalent, from any other mass grave, from any other time in history. Transport and witness records prove mass arrivals at the camps, and huge areas of cremated remains have been found, which corroborate witness evidence about the scale of the cover-up by the Nazis.

This is a case of you just do not want to accept what is evidenced, as you defect from your lack of any evidence.

[Nessie]

Nazis and Jews, who worked inside TII, state that there were mass graves, that were then exhumed and the corpses cremated. Local Poles speak to months of cremations, with smoke and smells coming from the camp. Post war surveys of the camp site, have found huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains.

Local Poles can "speak to months of cremations", but you have no reasonable explanation for how Soviet reconnaissance planes didn't document this huge outside cremation operation.
Here's how Weirnik explains it- “Whenever an airplane was sighted overhead, all work was stopped, the corpses were covered with foliage as camouflage against aerial observation.”
Nessie, do you actually believe that?

I have never seen any indication that Soviet planes took aerial photos of the camps. Maybe those photos are still waiting to be found in an archive. Maybe they were never kept. As for believing witnesses describing hiding activities from enemy planes, that is quite believable as it was common place by all sides for all sorts of activities during the war.

So far, your evidence for that, consists of a Polish Jewish Commission's emotive condemnation of the Soviet use of explosives at the site. You have provided no evidence any crater caused by an explosion went deeper than any dug pit.

From that Polish Jewish Commission report:
November 9, 1945
"The excavations began at the location described by the witness Rajzman on November 6, where the so-called ‘camp hospital’ had stood and where, according to the witness, a mass grave is supposed to exist. Since a bomb crater 4 to 5 meters deep is present at the said location – two bombs still lie at a slight distance from this crater – the digging was begun in this crater"[...] "No human remains were found"."


November 10, 1945
The work was continued, with 36 workers who had been commandeered for roadwork. At a depth of 6 meters begins a layer which has never before been uncovered by anyone. It consists partly of all sorts of kitchen utensils and different kinds of household objects; there are also pieces of clothing. At a depth of 7 meters, we reached the bottom of the pit – a layer of yellow sand which is not mixed with gravel."[...] "During the course of the excavations, numerous more or less badly damaged Polish documents were discovered, in addition the badly damaged personal identity card of a German Jew, as well as several more coins: Polish, German, Russian, Belgian, and even American. After we had made certain that this pit, filled with broken pieces of the containers al- ready mentioned, ran in a north-south direction on the grounds of the camp area – 2 meters more [in a northerly direction] had been excavated – the workers started work at this location."

November 11, 1945
"The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments at- test to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters"[...] "Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, still partially in a state of decomposition. The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, and is of a dark gray color, granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped."

I don't see how you think this report strengthens your narrative. At least the Soviet report gave a nice admission- “At the present it is difficult to uncover the traces and secrets of this oven for the cremation of people, but based upon the available data, one can picture it.”
This is like Rosenblat's 'In my mind it was real'.

There is evidence that the Soviet's used explosives at the site. My narrative is the evidenced narrative, of Nazi mass graves, exhumations, cremations and then Soviet and local Polish grave robbing, based on rumours and then finds of valuables. The result was a confused geology, so it is no wonder it took modern day geophysics before a more defined detail of the excavations could be produced. But, even that is limited by the memorial.

I am asking you about the buried remains the explosives unearthed. How did they get there? Your previous answer was "rumour"! You then concede dead were buried at the camp, but claim they were dead from the transports or people who otherwise died inside the camp, but you refuse to provide any evidence to show how many died and were buried.

They found a few skulls and body parts which were still decomposing, not a single intact body or skeleton was found"Those aren’t just bones," "There are still pieces of half-rotted corpses lying there, bunches of intestines.". The decomposing body parts and skulls void of gunshot wounds do not make sense if we take the orthodox narrative. And, what about the prisoners allegedly killed in the revolt + the 30,000 Jews sent from the ghetto of Bialystok. Nothing.

Decomposing corpses, unearthed by Soviet explosives, proves that not all the corpses were exhumed in 1943. The same was found at Belzec. Skulls void of gunshot wounds means they were not shot in the head, which had been the norm during Einsatzgruppen mass shootings. Prisoners killed during the revolt and those from Bialystock would have been cremated.

Typically for a so-called revisionist you are evidence free, or your level of evidencing, is woeful.

Ironic!

How about we discuss your evidence, from eyewitnesses, archaeology and geophysics, that proves no mass graves?

[Stubble]

How the fuck do you hide a 5,000 corpse bonfire with twigs Nessie, good lord...

[Nessie]

How the fuck do you hide a 5,000 corpse bonfire with twigs Nessie, good lord...

It as at the start of the exhumations;

https://web.archive.org/web/20220309084 ... iernik.htm

"At any rate, the cremations were promptly begun. The corpses of men, women, children and old people were exhumed from the mass graves. Whenever such a grave was opened, a terrible stench rose from them, because the bodies were already in an advanced stage of decomposition. This work brought continued physical and moral suffering to those who were forced to do it. We, the living, felt renewed grief, even more intensively than before. We were ill fed, because transports had ceased to arrive, so that the hapless purveyors of food had become a thing of the past. We did not like to draw on our reserves. All we ate was moldy bread, which we washed down with water. The malnutrition caused an epidemic of typhus. Those who became ill needed neither medication nor a bed. A bullet in the neck and all was over.

Work was begun to cremate the dead. It turned out that bodies of women burned more easily than those of men. Accordingly, the bodies of women were used for kindling the fires. Since cremation was hard work, rivalry set in between the labor details as to which of them would be able to cremate the largest number of bodies. Bulletin boards were rigged up and daily scores were recorded. Nevertheless, the results were very poor. The corpses were soaked in gasoline. This entailed considerable expense and the results were inadequate; the male corpses simply would not burn. Whenever an airplane was sighted overhead, all work was stopped, the corpses were covered with foliage as camouflage against aerial observation."

I say he meant the graves, opened up for exhumations, rather than the pyres, that were covered.

[Stubble]

I'm going to have to make a missing the point award for you Nessie, because you just earned one with your last post, and you deserve a medal for it.

[Nessie]

I'm going to have to make a missing the point award for you Nessie, because you just earned one with your last post, and you deserve a medal for it.

The point being that there were no 5000 corpse mass cremations at that time.

[joshk246]

I'm going to have to make a missing the point award for you Nessie, because you just earned one with your last post, and you deserve a medal for it.

The point being that there were no 5000 corpse mass cremations at that time.

Henryk Reichmann stated that six grates were built, each of which was able to accommodate 2,500 bodies at once.

[Nessie]

I'm going to have to make a missing the point award for you Nessie, because you just earned one with your last post, and you deserve a medal for it.

The point being that there were no 5000 corpse mass cremations at that time.

Henryk Reichmann stated that six grates were built, each of which was able to accommodate 2,500 bodies at once.

Other witnesses state that the initial attempts to cremate corpses were in the mass graves. The various witnesses speak about different times in the process.

[joshk246]

The point being that there were no 5000 corpse mass cremations at that time.

Henryk Reichmann stated that six grates were built, each of which was able to accommodate 2,500 bodies at once.

Other witnesses state that the initial attempts to cremate corpses were in the mass graves. The various witnesses speak about different times in the process.

I'm not 100% sure which witnesses you're referring to, but the Jewish historian Konnilyn Feig does make that assertion, can you provide said witness statement's?

If you mean, Brenner, Rajzman and Łukaszkiewicz then they also spoke about a huge incineration 'furnace' that was a trench dug 200-300m long and 5/6m deep?

“The furnace – that was a large trench 200-300 m long and 5-6 m deep, excavated with an excavator. Three rows of reinforced concrete poles one- and-a-half meters high each were driven into the bottom of the trench. The poles were connected with one another by crossbeams. On these cross- beams were laid rails at intervals of 5 to 7 cm. This was a giant furnace grate. Narrow-gauge tracks were brought up to the edges of the trench.” - Hejnoch Brenner + Samuel Rajzman

No room for such trench, also no evidence of said trench.
On top of that, Treblinkas longest side was only 188m.

[Nessie]

Henryk Reichmann stated that six grates were built, each of which was able to accommodate 2,500 bodies at once.

Other witnesses state that the initial attempts to cremate corpses were in the mass graves. The various witnesses speak about different times in the process.

I'm not 100% sure which witnesses you're referring to, but the Jewish historian Konnilyn Feig does make that assertion, can you provide said witness statement's?

Various descriptions here;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... speak.html

"Later, on Wirth’s instructions, they were burnt in the grave itself."

"When the cremation grates were there, fire was kindled in the corpse pits to cremate the corpses on top… such a fire in one grave resulted from the gas from the corpses. Big tall flames shot up and there was an enormous mushroom cloud.

If you mean, Brenner, Rajzman and Łukaszkiewicz then they also spoke about a huge incineration 'furnace' that was a trench dug 200-300m long and 5/6m deep?

“The furnace – that was a large trench 200-300 m long and 5-6 m deep, excavated with an excavator. Three rows of reinforced concrete poles one- and-a-half meters high each were driven into the bottom of the trench. The poles were connected with one another by crossbeams. On these cross- beams were laid rails at intervals of 5 to 7 cm. This was a giant furnace grate. Narrow-gauge tracks were brought up to the edges of the trench.” - Hejnoch Brenner + Samuel Rajzman

No room for such trench, also no evidence of said trench.
On top of that, Treblinkas longest side was only 188m.

People are poor at estimating size, so don't take what a witness said about the size of a grave literally and as if it is accurate.