The WANNSEE CONFERENCE and PROTOCOL

[InuYasha]

'Millions to the left of me,
Millions to the right,
Here I am, stuck in the millions with you'
-Nessie from his double counting which turned into multiple counting. You see he sees millions of jews in every part of Europe for all the war and all these millions of jews were holocausted. Because Nessie thinks there were 27million jews slathered all over Europe and every single one of them was blown up the chimney. The logic of the man is the stuff of legend.

At what point did Nessie start doubling the Jewish numbers? According to various estimates I've seen, there were between 11 and 16 million in 1939 (though that applies to the entire European continent, from Gibraltar to the Urals). Several million left in 1939-41.

Borjastick is lying. I say there were between 10 and 11 million Jews in Europe, based on the figures used by Korherr and at Wannsee, of whom 5-6 million were killed and c500,000 were liberated from the camps in 1945. The rest escaped or hid.

The figure of 11 million makes sense; after all, that was about how many Jews there were in Europe on the eve of the war. It is worth noting that not all of Europe was controlled by the Nazis - Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Sweden - remained beyond their reach. Only a fraction of those 11 million were under the direct control of the Reich.

[Nessie]

At what point did Nessie start doubling the Jewish numbers? According to various estimates I've seen, there were between 11 and 16 million in 1939 (though that applies to the entire European continent, from Gibraltar to the Urals). Several million left in 1939-41.

Borjastick is lying. I say there were between 10 and 11 million Jews in Europe, based on the figures used by Korherr and at Wannsee, of whom 5-6 million were killed and c500,000 were liberated from the camps in 1945. The rest escaped or hid.

The figure of 11 million makes sense; after all, that was about how many Jews there were in Europe on the eve of the war. It is worth noting that not all of Europe was controlled by the Nazis - Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Sweden - remained beyond their reach. Only a fraction of those 11 million were under the direct control of the Reich.

The countries you list accounted for, 6,000, 3,000, 18,000 and 8,0000 Jews, out of the 11 million, so a fraction. Those countries are in the B list of the minutes, countries not occupied by the Nazis, but including countries aligned to them. The A list is occupied territory, and the population of Jews has already dramatically decreased from pre-war figures.

[Wahrheitssucher]

POST-WAR STATEMENTS OF ATTENDEES OF THE WANNSEE CONFERENCE

Josef Bühler (16th February 1904 – 22nd August 1948)

Josef was a German lawyer who, as the protégé of Governor General Hans Frank, rose to become his deputy as the State Secretary in the German, Third Reich-controlled General Government in Kraków during the Second World War.
In his youth he had studied law at the universities in Munich, Kiel, Berlin and Erlangen. He earned a Doctor of Law degree and passed the state law examination in 1930.
He attended the January 1942 Wannsee Conference, at which the Final Solution to the Jewish Question deportation plan was discussed.
He testified in Frank's defence at the Nuremberg show-trial on 23rd April 1946, and denied all knowledge of any plan to exterminate all Jews (the Holocaust). He himself was tried and convicted at the Nuremburg show-trial, and was eventually killed in a lynching in Krakow, Poland in 1948.

DR. SEIDL: The Prosecution submitted an extract from Frank's diary in evidence under Number USA-281 (Document Number 2233(d)-PS.) This is a discussion of Jewish problems. In this connection Frank said, among other things:
"My attitude towards the Jews is based on the expectation that they will disappear; they must go away. I have started negotiations for deporting them to the East. This question will be discussed at a large meeting in Berlin in January, to which I shall send State Secretary Dr. Buehler. This conference is to take place at the Reich Security Main Office in the office of SS Obergruppenfuehrer Heydrich. In any case Jewish emigration on a large scale will begin."

I ask you now, did the Governor General send you to Berlin for that conference; and if so, what was the subject of the conference?

BÜHLER: Yes, I was sent to the [Wannsee] conference and the subject of the conference was the Jewish problem.

I might say in advance that from the beginning, Jewish questions in the Government General were considered as coming under the jurisdiction of the Higher SS and Police Leader and handled accordingly. The handling of Jewish matters by the state administration was supervised and merely tolerated by the Police.

During the years 1940 and 1941 incredible numbers of people, mostly Jews, were brought into the Government General in spite of the objections and protests of the Governor General and his administration. This completely unexpected, unprepared for, and undesired bringing in of the Jewish population from other territories put the administration of the Government General in an extremely difficult position.

Accommodating these masses, feeding them, and caring for their health-combating epidemics for instance — almost, or rather, definitely overtaxed the capacity of the territory. Particularly threatening was the spread of typhus, not only in the ghettos but also among the Polish population and the Germans in the Government General. It appeared as if that epidemic would spread even to the Reich and to the Eastern Front.

At that moment Heydrich's invitation to the Governor General was received. The [Wannsee] conference was originally supposed to take place in November 1941, but it was frequently postponed and it may have taken place in February 1942.

Because of the special problems of the Government General I had asked Heydrich for a personal interview and he received me. On that occasion, among many other things, I described in particular the catastrophic conditions which had resulted from the arbitrary bringing of Jews into the Government General. He replied that for this very reason he had invited the Governor General to the conference. The Reichsführer SS, so he said, had received an order from the Führer to round up all the Jews of Europe and to settle them in the Northeast of Europe, in Russia.

I asked him whether this meant that the further arrival of Jews in the Government General would cease, and whether the hundreds of thousands of Jews who had been brought into the Government General without the permission of the Governor General would be moved out again. Heydrich promised me both these things.

Heydrich said furthermore that the Führer had given an order that Theresienstadt, a town in the Protectorate, would become a reservation in which old and sick Jews, and weak Jews who could not stand the strains of resettlement, were to be accommodated in the future.

This information left me definitely convinced that the resettlement of the Jews, if not for the sake of the Jews, then for the sake of the reputation and prestige of the German people, would be carried out in a humane fashion. The removal of the Jews from the Government General was subsequently carried out exclusively by the Police.

… MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I shall quote three sentences from the typed transcript of the report. Please hand the original to the witness.
I quote three sentences from this document. It is Dr. Frank's speech:
"I should like to emphasise one thing. We must not be too soft-hearted when we hear that 17,000 have been shot. These persons who have been shot are also victims of the ever.... Let us now remember that all of us who are meeting together here figure in Mr. Roosevelt's list of war criminals. I have the honor of being Number 1. We have thus, so to speak, become accomplices in terms of world history".

Your name is second on the list of those present at the conference. Do you not consider that Frank must have had sufficient grounds to number you among the most active of his accomplices in crime?

BÜHLER: About such statements of the Governor General I have already said all that is necessary.

MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Then you ascribe this to the Governor General's temperament?

THE PRESIDENT: Witness, that is not an answer to the question. The question was, do you consider yourself to be one of those criminals?

BÜHLER: I do not consider myself a criminal.

Pages 68 & 90 | 23rd April 1946. | NUREMBURG SHOW TRIAL TRANSCRIPTS

[InuYasha]

Borjastick is lying. I say there were between 10 and 11 million Jews in Europe, based on the figures used by Korherr and at Wannsee, of whom 5-6 million were killed and c500,000 were liberated from the camps in 1945. The rest escaped or hid.

The figure of 11 million makes sense; after all, that was about how many Jews there were in Europe on the eve of the war. It is worth noting that not all of Europe was controlled by the Nazis - Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Sweden - remained beyond their reach. Only a fraction of those 11 million were under the direct control of the Reich.

The countries you list accounted for, 6,000, 3,000, 18,000 and 8,0000 Jews, out of the 11 million, so a fraction. Those countries are in the B list of the minutes, countries not occupied by the Nazis, but including countries aligned to them. The A list is occupied territory, and the population of Jews has already dramatically decreased from pre-war figures.

There was also England, although it is not part of the continent - but it is Europe. In Europe itself the situation was uneven - in Italy, for example, until 1938 the Jews were not subjected to oppression at all - and then only partially deprived of their rights. Only in September 1943 did the deportation of Italian Jews to concentration camps begin. Hungary under Horthy also did not hand over its Jews to the AH. Only after Operation Margarethe did the deportation campaign of Hungarian Jews become possible and was carried out between May and July 1944. Thus, even if 10 or almost 11 million lived "under the axis" - the "axis" itself was not homogeneous, and only by 1944 did the Führer have the opportunity to reach almost everyone. But since this was also the time of the rapid retreat of the Reich on all fronts - this number again rapidly decreased almost immediately.

[Wahrheitssucher]

.
Q. What is the underlying premise of the belief that the conference at Wannsee was about exterminating ALL Jews?
A. It is the premise that Rheinhard Heydrich had been given an order and commission to orchestrate that alleged genocide, under the titles ‘Die Endlösung der Judenfraga’ and ’Die Gesamtlösung der Judenfrage’ (‘the final solution of the Jewish question’ and ‘the complete solution to the Jewish question’).
But, as shown previously: a.) the invitations to Wannsee don’t say anything about genocide; and
b.) the actual written order that Heydrich received neither implies nor specifies that.
See for yourself below:

Der Reichsmarschall des Großdeutschen Reiches. Berlin, den 7.1941

Beauftragter für den Vierjahresplan

Vorsitzender des Kinisterrats für die Reichsverteigdigung

An den Chef der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD -Gruppenführer Heydrich

Berlin.

Jn Ergänzung der Jhnen bereits mit Erlaß von 24.1.39 übertragenen Aufgabe, die Judenfrage in Form der Auswanderung oder Evakuierung einer den Zeitverhalt-nissen entsprechend möglichst günstigsten Lösung zuzu führen, beauftrage ich Sie hiermit, alle erforderlicaen Vorbereitungen in organisatorischer, sachlicher und materieller Hinsicht zu treffen für eine Gesamtlösung der Judenfrage im deutschen Einflußgebiet in Europa.

Soferne hierbei die Zuständigkeiten anderer Zentralinstanzen berührt werden, sind diese zu betei ligen.

Jch beauftrage Sie weiter, mir in Bälde einen Gesamtentwurf über die organisatorischen, sachlichen und materiellen Vorausmaßnahmen zur Durchführung der angestrebten Endlösung der Judenfrage vorzulegen.

[signed] Göring

Q. Who gave Heydrich the order and commission?
A. Herman Göring. Here above is the actual letter of authorisation and command.
The ‘holocaust’ narrative therefore has to claim that in July of 1941 a plan to kill ALL Jews had been decided and its title / code name was exactly the same as previous deportation plans.
So one of the many problems for steadfast believers in ‘the holocaust’ mass-gassing mythology is that Hermann credibly and compellingly denied his order intended mass-murderous genocide. He made that denial abundantly clear in three avenues of discussion:
1. his Nuremberg show-trial testimony under oath https://archive.org/details/HermannGoeringZurJudenfrageInNuernberg;
2. in his comments and arguments to his fellow-accused in the Nuremberg prison at communal mealtimes;
3. in his private interviews with Jewish prison-psychologist Leon Goldensohn in his Nuremberg prison cell, awaiting death.

Q. Well, let’s assume for the sake of argument that he was an exceptionally gifted actor and liar and that ‘Die Endlösung der Judenfraga’ REALLY was the title for a war-time mas-murder policy. The question then becomes who gave Herman Göring the order?
A. Adolf Hitler supposedly did.
Hmmm? But there are two problems with that belief!
1. he denied that on numerous occasions.
2. he actually gave contradictory orders for the resolving of the judenfraga to be left till AFTER the war was over (previously referenced in this thread).

Here is what Carlo Mottogno said in a rare interview about the BASIC PREMISE of the alleged ‘HITLER ORDER’:

The alleged “order of the Führer” forwarded by Himmler to Höß in June 1941 is claimed to have been against all Jews without exception, including those fit for work.
As shown by Himmler to Wisliceny in 1942, it was only about Jews unable to work.

The holocaust historiography was to demonstrate the existence of a double “order of the Führer” one of total extermination, the other, later, partial extermination.
However, according to the historiography of the “holocaust ” Sobibor and Treblinka were opened in May and July 1942, after the alleged “order of the Führer” of 1942, as pure extermination camps, that is, for the total and indiscriminate extermination of Jews and disabled people, unable to work.

This would have required a third “order of the Führer” notwithstanding the second, for the two camps mentioned above and Chelmno and Belzec, the other two camps in which total extermination of Jews was to have taken place.

In addition, the first order of the Führer “is in open contradiction with the well-documented Nazi emigration policy (first) and evacuation (later) of the Jews.

It is known that Jewish emigration was prohibited only from Himmler on October 23rd 1941, while the Madagascar Plan* (which required the transfer after the war of the Jews of Europe under German control to the island of Madagascar) was officially abandoned on February 10th 1942.
But then — when, how and why was the policy of emigration or evacuation abandoned and allegedly replaced by a policy of extermination.

[bombsaway]

.
Q. What is the underlying premise of the belief that the conference at Wannsee was about exterminating ALL Jews?
A. It is the premise that Rheinhard Heydrich had been given an order and commission to orchestrate that alleged genocide, under the titles ‘Die Endlösung der Judenfraga’ and ’Die Gesamtlösung der Judenfrage’ (‘the final solution of the Jewish question’ and ‘the complete solution to the Jewish question’).

I don't know who said this but it's pretty simple. In summer of 1941 it was expected that the USSR would soon collapse militarily and NS Germany could get on with its plans for a new europe. By late August it was clear that wasn't happening, so plans changed. There's no definite evidence about "start date", some historians say the idea that most non-employable Jews would be killed didn't happen until 1942, but almost nobody puts the start date around the time of that letter.

verdict: STRAWMAN

[Wahrheitssucher]

.
Q. What is the underlying premise of the belief that the conference at Wannsee was about exterminating ALL Jews?
A. It is the premise that Rheinhard Heydrich had been given an order and commission to orchestrate that alleged genocide, under the titles ‘Die Endlösung der Judenfraga’ and ’Die Gesamtlösung der Judenfrage’ (‘the final solution of the Jewish question’ and ‘the complete solution to the Jewish question’).

I don't know who said this…

I did. I just invented that explanation in a question and answer format.

…but it's pretty simple. In June of 1941 it was expected that the USSR would soon collapse militarily and NS Germany could get on with its plans for a new europe. By August it was clear that wasn't happening, so plans changed. There's no definite evidence about "start date", some historians say the idea that most non-employable Jews would be killed didn't happen until 1942, but almost nobody puts the start date around the time of that letter.

verdict: STRAWMAN

No, it is not a ‘strawman’ misrepresentation.
You are demonstrating that you don’t know what the official holocaust narrative is, Bombsaway. Below I have quoted what Wikipedia states. See for yourself.

Here is what Wikipedia says:

The Final Solution or the Final Solution to the Jewish Question was a plan orchestrated by Nazi Germany during World War II for the genocide of individuals they defined as Jews.
The "Final Solution to the Jewish question" was the official code name for the murder of all Jews within reach, which was not restricted to the European continent.
This policy of deliberate and systematic genocide starting across German-occupied Europe was formulated in procedural and geopolitical terms by Nazi leadership in January 1942 at the Wannsee Conference held near Berlin, and culminated in the Holocaust, which saw the murder of 90% of Polish Jews, and two-thirds of the Jewish population of Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution

But, in Göring’s letter to Heydrich in July 1941 he makes reference to the ‘final solution’ policy being something that was decided in January 1939.

This is problematic for ‘holocaust’ history. Isn’t it.

Göring refers in: a.) the 1941 letter, and b.) in his show-trial testimony, and c.) in his discussions in prison during the trial, to the exact same ‘final solution’ policy. You holocaust-exterminationists insist something that doesn’t fit the evidence.

I provided a link to film of Göring’s Nuremburg testimony on his letter to Heydrich.
Did you see that?
Here is a transcript of it:

JUSTICE JACKSON: 710-PS, Herr Vorsitzender.

[Das Dokument wird dem Zeugen vorgelegt.]

Nun, dieses Dokument trägt Ihre Unterschrift, ist das richtig?
GÖRING: Das ist richtig.
JUSTICE JACKSON: Und es ist an den Chef der Sicherheitspolizei und des Sicherheitsdienstes, SS-Gruppenführer Heydrich, gerichtet?

GÖRING: Das ist richtig.

JUSTICE JACKSON: Ich weiß nicht, ob das Ganze in das Protokoll aufgenommen worden ist. Aber ich denke, daß das geschehen sollte. Damit wir bei der Übersetzung keine Schwierigkeiten haben; korrigieren Sie mich bitte, falls meine Angaben nicht richtig sind.
»In Vollendung der Ihnen am 24. Januar 1939 übertragenen Aufgabe...«
GÖRING: Darin ist ein Fehler, das heißt: In »Ergänzung«, nicht »in Vollendung der Ihnen übertragenen Aufgabe.«
JUSTICE JACKSON: Gut, ich nehme das an.
»... welche sich mit der gründlichen, in möglichst günstiger Weise stattzufindenden Emigration und Evakuierung als Lösung des jüdischen Problems befaßte, beauftrage ich Sie hiermit, alle notwendigen Vorbereitungen bezüglich Organisierung und Finanzierung zum Zweck einer Endlösung der jüdischen Frage in dem deutschen Einflußgebiet in Europa zu treffen.«
Ist das soweit richtig?
GÖRING: Ich finde das in keiner Weise korrekt.
JUSTICE JACKSON: Geben Sie bitte Ihre Übersetzung.

GÖRING: Darf ich es genau verlesen, wie es hier steht?
»In Ergänzung der Ihnen bereits mit Erlaß vom 24. Januar 1939,« also vor Kriegsbeginn, »übertragenen Aufgabe, die Judenfrage in Form der Auswanderung oder Evakuierung einer den Zeitverhältnissen entsprechend möglichst günstigen Lösung zuzuführen, beauftrage ich Sie hiermit, alle erforderlichen Vorbereitungen in organisatorischer, sachlicher und materieller Hinsicht zu treffen...«
Und jetzt kommt das entscheidende Wort, das falsch übersetzt wurde, es heißt hier nämlich: »für eine Gesamtlösung«, und nicht »für eine Endlösung«,
»für eine Gesamtlösung der Judenfrage im deutschen Einflußgebiet in Europa.
[575] Sofern hierbei die Zuständigkeiten anderer Zentralinstanzen berührt werden, sind diese zu beteiligen.
Ich beauftrage Sie weiter, mir in Bälde einen Gesamtentwurf über die organisatorischen, sachlichen und materiellen Vorausmaßnahmen zur Durchführung der angestrebten Endlösung der Judenfrage vorzulegen.«
»In Ergänzung des Ihnen mit Erlaß vom 24. Januar 1939,« das heißt also, zu einem Zeitpunkt, wo keinerlei Krieg begonnen oder in Aussicht stand.
JUSTICE JACKSON: Machen Sie jetzt eine Erklärung oder lesen Sie den Brief vor?
GÖRING: Ich habe jetzt eine Erklärung zum Zitat dieses Briefes geben wollen, um besonders auf dieses Datum hinzuweisen.

JUSTICE JACKSON: Ich wollte nur, daß es nicht als ein Teil Ihres Briefes aufgefaßt wird. Das letzte, was in dem Brief steht, ist:
»Ich beauftrage Sie weiter, mir in Bälde einen Gesamtentwurf über die organisatorischen, sachlichen und materiellen Vorausmaßnahmen zur Durchführung der angestrebten Endlösung der Judenfrage vorzulegen.«
Ist das nicht eine im wesentlichen genaue Übersetzung Ihres Auftrages an Heydrich und Himmler?
GÖRING: An Heydrich und die übrigen daran beteiligten zentralen Instanzen. Es ergibt sich das aus dem ersten Teil des Briefes, der Schlußsatz.
JUSTICE JACKSON: Wir wollen nun aber über diese Übersetzung keine Mißverständnisse aufkommen lassen. Der Brief ging an den Chef der Sicherheitspolizei und des Sicherheitsdienstes, SS-Gruppenführer Heydrich. Das stimmt, nicht wahr?

GÖRING: Das ist richtig, und dazu muß ich aber nun die Erklärung abgeben...

JUSTICE JACKSON: Gut.

GÖRING:... die Erklärung abgeben, daß ich deshalb den Brief an ihn gerichtet habe, weil Heydrich mit Erlaß vom 24. Januar 1939 beziehungsweise Himmler die Aufgabe der Judenauswanderung übertragen war; infolgedessen war dies die Zentralstelle, und ich mußte mich für die ganzen materiellen und wirtschaftlich sich daraus ergebenden Dinge an die Stelle wenden, welche den Zentralauftrag hatte.

JUSTICE JACKSON: Und Sie haben alle anderen Zentralstellen beauftragt, mit der Sicherheitspolizei und SS in der Endlösung der Judenfrage zusammenzuarbeiten?

GÖRING: Hier kommt nichts von der SS vor, nur von der Sicherheitspolizei, einer staatlichen Stelle. Daß Heydrich SS-Gruppenführer [576] ist, hat damit ja direkt nichts zu tun, denn es wendet sich an den Chef der Sicherheitspolizei und erwähnt seinen Rang: SS-Gruppenführer Heydrich.

And here is a translation into English:

THE PRESIDENT: That's 710-PS?

JUSTICE JACKSON: 710-PS, Mr. Chairman.

[The document is shown to the witness.]

Now, this document bears your signature, is that correct?

GORING: That's correct.

JUSTICE JACKSON: And it's addressed to the Chief of the Security Police and Security Service, SS-Gruppenführer Heydrich?

GORING: That's correct.

JUSTICE JACKSON: I don't know if the whole thing has been entered into the record. But I think it should have been. So that we don't have any difficulties in translating it; please correct me if my statements are incorrect.
"In completion of the task assigned to you on January 24, 1939..."

GORING: There's a mistake there. It actually says "in addition," not "in completion of the task assigned to you."

JUSTICE JACKSON: Very well, I accept that.
"...which was concerned with thorough emigration and evacuation, to be carried out in the most favourable manner possible, as a solution to the Jewish problem, I hereby instruct you to make all necessary preparations regarding organisation and financing for the purpose of a final solution to the Jewish question in the German sphere of influence in Europe."
Is that correct so far?

GÖRING: I don't find that correct at all.

JUSTICE JACKSON: Please provide your translation.

GÖRING: May I read it exactly as it is written here?
"In addition to the task already assigned to you by decree of January 24, 1939”, i.e., before the outbreak of the war, "of finding the most favourable solution to the Jewish question in the form of emigration or evacuation, given the circumstances of the time, I hereby instruct you to make all necessary preparations in organisational, factual, and material terms..."
And now comes the crucial word, which was incorrectly translated: "for a comprehensive solution", not "for a final solution".
"…for a comprehensive solution to the Jewish question in the German sphere of influence in Europe.
If the responsibilities of other central authorities are affected, these must be involved.
I further instruct you to submit to me shortly a comprehensive draft of the organisational, factual, and material preliminary measures for implementing the desired final solution to the Jewish question."

"In addition to the task assigned to you by decree of January 24, 1939".
I.e., at a time when no war had begun or been anticipated.

JUSTICE JACKSON: Are you making an explanation now, or are you reading the letter aloud?

GÖRING: I wanted to provide an explanation for the quotation of this letter, specifically to point out this date.

JUSTICE JACKSON: I just wanted it not to be interpreted as part of your letter. The last thing in the letter is:
"I further instruct you to present me shortly with a comprehensive draft of the organizational, factual, and material preliminary measures for implementing the desired Final Solution to the Jewish Question."
Isn't that an essentially accurate translation of your order to Heydrich and Himmler?

GÖRING: To Heydrich and the other central authorities involved. This is clear from the first part of the letter, the final sentence.

JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, we don't want any misunderstandings to arise about this translation. The letter was addressed to the Chief of the Security Police and the Security Service, SS-Gruppenführer Heydrich. That's right, isn't it?

GÖRING: That's correct, and I must now make the statement...

JUSTICE JACKSON: Good.

GÖRING: ...make the statement that I addressed the letter to him because Heydrich, or rather Himmler, had been assigned the task of Jewish emigration by decree of January 24, 1939; consequently, this was the central office, and I had to turn to the office with the central mandate for all the material and economic matters arising from this.

JUSTICE JACKSON: And you instructed all other central offices to cooperate with the Security Police and SS in the Final Solution to the Jewish Question?

GÖRING: There's nothing about the SS here, only the Security Police, a state agency. The fact that Heydrich is an SS Group Leader has nothing directly to do with it, because it's addressed to the Chief of the Security Police and mentions his rank: SS Group Leader Heydrich.

[bombsaway]

It's a straw man to say it's a majority view within orthodoxy that the extermination order was given in 1939 or June/July 1941. Himmler stated in a document in 1940 that physical extermination wasn't Germanic or some such. Things change. Final solution is terminology that is general in usage. You're nitpicking, monstrously.

[HansHill]

This is remarkable!

Per Germar Rudolf:

The quantitative challenge got exacerbated after
Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941.
Many more million Jews living in the Soviet Union
were expected to be soon under German control. For
that reason, Hermann Göring expanded Heydrich’s
role in a letter dated 31 July 1941. Reinhardt Hey-
drich’s task now encompassed all of Germany’s area
of influence in Europe. Heydrich was to submit a
draft plan to implement this final solution of the Jew-
ish question. In this document, Göring used the terms
Gesamtlösung (total or comprehensive solution) and
Endlösung (end or final solution) synonymously.
(See the entry on Hermann Göring for more details.)
The orthodoxy insists that the term “final solu-
tion” ultimately meant the total physical extermina-
tion of Europe’s Jews.

Bombsaway must now argue that in order for this to not be a strawman, "Final Solution" must not possibly mean genocide (!)

[bombsaway]

This is ridiculous. Do you think orthodoxy believes the Nazis intended to kill all the czechs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Sol ... h_Question

It's a general term about resolving a situation. This might mean expulsion or or killing or other things. It should show you how weak your case is that you're relying on something like this or think it's a strong argument.

[borjastick]

The jews themselves talked of a solution to the jewish question and wanted a final solution in that regard.

The Straw Clutching Society is at work here again and yet we find that some people think they add value or something worthwhile in being here. Complete bollocks.

[HansHill]

This is ridiculous. Do you think orthodoxy believes the Nazis intended to kill all the czechs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Sol ... h_Question

It's a general term about resolving a situation. This might mean expulsion or or killing or other things. It should show you how weak your case is that you're relying on something like this or think it's a strong argument.

Your own citation claims the Final Solution of the Jewish Question was complete extermination



Wahrheitssucher has you completely checkmated - when sources as mundane as Wikipedia throw around that Final Solution = murder all the jews, that is not a strawman to say its a commonly held belief amongst Holocaust proponents.

[bombsaway]

This is ridiculous. Do you think orthodoxy believes the Nazis intended to kill all the czechs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Sol ... h_Question

It's a general term about resolving a situation. This might mean expulsion or or killing or other things. It should show you how weak your case is that you're relying on something like this or think it's a strong argument.

Your own citation claims the Final Solution of the Jewish Question was complete extermination



Wahrheitssucher has you completely checkmated - when sources as mundane as Wikipedia throw around that Final Solution = murder all the jews, that is not a strawman to say its a commonly held belief amongst Holocaust proponents.

I'm not contending that it DID mean killing at some point, of course, I'm contending that it ALWAYS meant killing. Final solution is a general term, kind of like destruction (vernichtung), it can mean killing or other things. That you think this is a check mate or even close to that shows how far gone you are.

LLMs are a decent representation of the mainstream position. I asked the question and got this

When analyzing the earliest Nazi uses of phrases that could be translated as "final solution" or "total solution" in relation to the Jews, the context suggests a policy objective that was, at first, more focused on expulsion, ghettoization, and forced resettlement under horrific conditions, rather than immediate, systematic mass murder across all of Europe.

[HansHill]

I'm not contending that it DID mean killing at some point, of course, I'm contending that it ALWAYS meant killing. Final solution is a general term, kind of like destruction (vernichtung), it can mean killing or other things. That you think this is a check mate or even close to that shows how far gone you are.

LLMs are a good representation of the mainstream position. I asked the question and got this

When analyzing the earliest Nazi uses of phrases that could be translated as "final solution" or "total solution" in relation to the Jews, the context suggests a policy objective that was, at first, more focused on expulsion, ghettoization, and forced resettlement under horrific conditions, rather than immediate, systematic mass murder across all of Europe.

No - It's much more than that. Wahrheitssucher has just demonstrated very neatly that you are not only enforcing a very skewed and selective interpretation of this phrase, but in addition, that interpretation must at all times bend to whichever evidence best suits the Orthodox timeline.

We call that eating your cake and having it, too.

how far gone you are.

You have no idea - I live for this.

[bombsaway]

I'm not contending that it DID mean killing at some point, of course, I'm contending that it ALWAYS meant killing. Final solution is a general term, kind of like destruction (vernichtung), it can mean killing or other things. That you think this is a check mate or even close to that shows how far gone you are.

LLMs are a good representation of the mainstream position. I asked the question and got this

When analyzing the earliest Nazi uses of phrases that could be translated as "final solution" or "total solution" in relation to the Jews, the context suggests a policy objective that was, at first, more focused on expulsion, ghettoization, and forced resettlement under horrific conditions, rather than immediate, systematic mass murder across all of Europe.

No - It's much more than that. Wahrheitssucher has just demonstrated very neatly that you are not only enforcing a very skewed and selective interpretation of this phrase, but in addition, that interpretation must at all times bend to whichever evidence best suits the Orthodox timeline.

We call that eating your cake and having it, too.

how far gone you are.

You have no idea - I live for this.

I guess it's fair to say that by the time of Korherr's report (Statistical Report on the "Final Solution,"), Himmler at least knew what that term meant, despite the document being intended as "camouflage" (Himmler's words).

So what was the final solution then? (in the year 1943, when that document was produced)